Class of 2013 Employment Data Forum

[04102014]

Cornell is up: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... istics.cfm

57.5 + 10.9 = 68.4%

Impressive.

That makes me feel a little more comfortable seeing that, though the weight of paying sticker (presumed, not verified that this is the case yet) still feels quite heavy.

Do you have any other options in the T14 w/ scholarships? I wouldn't feel comfortable paying sticker at Cornell either...

Particularly since Cornell is ABSURDLY expensive, even for law school.

[jackattack17]

Not sure if UNC has been posted yet, but here it is:

http://www.law.unc.edu/documents/career ... rt2013.pdf

26+6+17+8 = 57 / 248 = 23%

[Otunga]

Cornell's numbers are encouraging. If they decreased their class size just a little more, they'd get to 70%+ it appears.

[cotiger]

Cornell's numbers are encouraging. If they decreased their class size just a little more, they'd get to 70%+ it appears.

Cornell had the fewest number of grads in the T14 last year

[PrideandGlory1776]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything.

[AAJD2B]

Just lovely, Cornell. Makes the decision that much easier.

[toothbrush]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything nothing.

[lawschool22]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything.

I think "this changes everything" might be a bit strong. Impressive numbers though. Don't forget there is probably a bit of self-selection coming into play at some of these schools though. People know Cornell does well at biglaw NYC, so people targeting that (which, helpfully, is also one of the easier markets to crack) might choose Cornell over another similar school. Whereas someone choosing a different career path might do the opposite.

[AAJD2B]

Isn't Cornell 68.9% ?

9+7+95+22 = 133/193

[KD35]

Pepperdine:

8.9% + 3.3% = 12.2%

http://law.pepperdine.edu/careers/conte ... a-2013.pdf

Edit: Fixed to change the numbers to percents instead of raw numbers.

[cotiger]

Isn't Cornell 68.9% ?

9+7+95+22 = 133/193

We're only counting LTFT positions

[Otunga]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything nothing.

If nothing else, it seems to show that having a smaller class size can be a wise move.

[AAJD2B]

Isn't Cornell 68.9% ?

9+7+95+22 = 133/193

We're only counting LTFT positions

Ahh, ok. Thanks.

[moonman157]

Those are some impressive clerkship numbers from Cornell

[Princetonlaw68]

There is no doubt in my mind that Michigan's 2013 numbers will show them to be a clear bottom-dweller of the T14 along with Georgetown. Upon this occurrence, I believe that a new T12 designation should be enforced. I've noticed that people are quick to jump down GULC's throat and start proclaiming T13 whenever the stats are observed, but nowhere near as many people seem to be able to stomach the fact that Michigan does not compare to the other non GULC T14s either. Why not T12? I've never seen anyone write T12.

In fact, I'd bet anything Michigan's numbers are going to be closer to GULC's than they are to the next-to-worst T14. (It's a given that they certainly won't be better than any T-14 besides GULC).

[manu6926]

...

[Otunga]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything.

Many NYU grads choose to pursue public interest.
The new numbers do show that Cornell can be an awesome alternative to Columbia/NYU, but they don't change everything. Whenever you look at these things, you must consider self-selection.

If you just want NYC biglaw and aren't likely to change your mind, I could see Cornell being a way better choice than NYU, particularly considering COA is bound to be lower if you got accepted to NYU as well.

[manu6926]

...

[lawschool22]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything.

Many NYU grads choose to pursue public interest.
The new numbers do show that Cornell can be an awesome alternative to Columbia/NYU, but they don't change everything. Whenever you look at these things, you must consider self-selection.

If you just want NYC biglaw and aren't likely to change your mind, I could see Cornell being a way better choice than NYU, particularly considering COA is bound to be lower if you got accepted to NYU as well.

Yeah, and I would argue this is the case for most of the bottom half of the T14. If you want NYC biglaw and know you won't change your mind, taking non-CCN w/ $$$ is probably the better choice.

Of course on the flip side if you do go CCN or higher, you are improving your odds of getting biglaw, so you just have to decide how much that insurance is worth.

[Big Dog]

Don't forget there is probably a bit of self-selection coming into play at some of these schools though. People know Cornell does well at biglaw NYC, so people targeting that (which, helpfully, is also one of the easier markets to crack) might choose Cornell over another similar school. Whereas someone choosing a different career path might do the opposit

Exactly. Cornell has a great rep of placement in NYC. While I know its hard for Northeasterner's to understand, many folks would much prefer anyplace else. Thus, they pick other schools, with more competitive job markets. (Self-selection is also a likely reason that some will take $$ at a lower T14 and turn down NYU at sticker, while others grovel for the chance to pay sticker at NYU.)

[cotiger]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything.

Many NYU grads choose to pursue public interest.
The new numbers do show that Cornell can be an awesome alternative to Columbia/NYU, but they don't change everything. Whenever you look at these things, you must consider self-selection.

If you just want NYC biglaw and aren't likely to change your mind, I could see Cornell being a way better choice than NYU, particularly considering COA is bound to be lower if you got accepted to NYU as well.

Let's not get too hasty based on one year of data.

However.

Over the last four years:
NYU has averaged placing 80% of their non-PI people into biglaw vs 72% at Cornell
NYU has averaged only 1.4% of their class ending up solo, unemployed-seeking, ST, or PT vs 5.2% at Cornell
Looking at firm sizes, NYU has a similarly significant but small advantage over Cornell

If the goal is NYC biglaw, and you got 90k at Cornell vs sticker at NYU? No brainer.

[bombaysippin]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything.

Uhh did you see the numbers for last year because essentially they're the same lol...

[Otunga]

Cornell better than all but Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Stanford and Chicago -- is this shocking or what? I mean I knew Cornell placed extremely well in NYC but dang even better than NYU! Better than Northwestern places in Chicago! Better than Duke and Michigan and Berkley! I don't really count Yale as not being better cause every1 at Yale crushes regardless of what the statistics say. In any case Cornell Law....I'm impressed, this changes everything.

Many NYU grads choose to pursue public interest.
The new numbers do show that Cornell can be an awesome alternative to Columbia/NYU, but they don't change everything. Whenever you look at these things, you must consider self-selection.

If you just want NYC biglaw and aren't likely to change your mind, I could see Cornell being a way better choice than NYU, particularly considering COA is bound to be lower if you got accepted to NYU as well.

Let's not get too hasty based on one year of data.

However.

Over the last four years:
NYU has averaged placing 80% of their non-PI people into biglaw vs 72% at Cornell
NYU has averaged only 1.4% of their class ending up solo, unemployed-seeking, ST, or PT vs 5.2% at Cornell
Looking at firm sizes, NYU has a similarly significant but small advantage over Cornell

If the goal is NYC biglaw, and you got 90k at Cornell vs sticker at NYU? No brainer.

Good points. Yes, I was thinking of NYU with a minimal scholarship and Cornell with a big offer.

[kaiser]

^^^

And lets also not forget that big firm placement is not necessarily the same as placement in the most elite firms. Look at any of the top firms in NYC, and you will undoubtedly see that there is FAR more NYU representation than Cornell. Of course, you have to adjust for differences in class size, but the point is still quite clear. Yes, Cornell might place well into biglaw, but your chances at the upper tier of firms is far greater out of NYU than Cornell.

[Princetonlaw68]

^^^

And lets also not forget that big firm placement is not necessarily the same as placement in the most elite firms. Look at any of the top firms in NYC, and you will undoubtedly see that there is FAR more NYU representation than Cornell. Of course, you have to adjust for differences in class size, but the point is still quite clear. Yes, Cornell might place well into biglaw, but your chances at the upper tier of firms is far greater out of NYU than Cornell.

Not that size is everything, but I'd just like to note that, among students who landed big law at Cornell, the percent that got it at firms of 500+ is 85.58% (95/111). This number is 85.62% for NYU (268/313). So basically the same number.