Class sizes and medians (c/o 2015) Forum

[Rahviveh]

Ann Arbor??? Charlottesville??????

Both have better reps than Ithaca as college towns, especially Ann Arbor (though undeservedly, IMO, and I've visited all three). Both considered "fun" places whereas Ithaca is where fun goes to die. And the weather is not comparable.

[ajax]

Ann Arbor??? Charlottesville??????

Both have better reps than Ithaca as college towns, especially Ann Arbor (though undeservedly, IMO, and I've visited all three). Both considered "fun" places whereas Ithaca is where fun goes to die. And the weather is not comparable.

Ann Arbor is an excellent town.

http://www.livability.com/top-10/top-10 ... n-arbor/mi

[top30man]

Ann Arbor??? Charlottesville??????

Both have better reps than Ithaca as college towns, especially Ann Arbor (though undeservedly, IMO, and I've visited all three). Both considered "fun" places whereas Ithaca is where fun goes to die. And the weather is not comparable.

Yeah Ithaca has a really bad reputation. I think it's one reason people stay away.

[ajax]

cornell really surprises me - they have a relatively small class

Dropping medians and class sizes should not surprise you at all. What should surprise you is any school holding its median and class size. That screams Illinois/Villanova.

Cornell needed to find 100 168+ LSATs to maintain their median. They don't get bad press like TTTs do, and there were plenty of these scores to go around the T-13, so I think it's surprising. Maybe they weren't willing to play the splitter game or match schollies or something, but an Ivy school not holding a 168 in a class of about 200 is still surprising.

Considering Cornell's 75% LSAT in 2003 (a period with roughly 30,000 more applicants than the 2011-2012 cycle) was 166, I don't find it surprising at all.

http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index. ... THigh/2003

[Dr. Filth]

Retakes were averaged back then. They aren't now.

[romothesavior]

Considering Cornell's 75% LSAT in 2003 (a period with roughly 30,000 more applicants than the 2011-2012 cycle) was 166, I don't find it surprising at all.

http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index. ... THigh/2003

It was a whole different ballgame 10 years ago.

[ajax]

Retakes were averaged back then. They aren't now.

Highly doubt that makes up for a 30k drop in applications.

[justonemoregame]

hmm I don't think location is determinative. I think a significant number of applicants to top schools don't care about the college-town atmosphere, at least not above the importance of attending a school with good employment outcomes. UM and UVA are filling 700 seats total and holding higher medians. They're ranked higher, too, but I would guess this has to do with Cornell being stingy and/or overestimating the number of acceptees willing to take their offer. Maybe they were cautious not to over-enroll and the previous admissions model just didn't pan out this time. Maybe they don't give a shit about the median drop, it's not like they're dropping out of the T14.

[ajax]

hmm I don't think location is determinative. I think a significant number of applicants to top schools don't care about the college-town atmosphere, at least not above the importance of attending a school with good employment outcomes. UM and UVA are filling 700 seats total and holding higher medians. They're ranked higher, too, but I would guess this has to do with Cornell being stingy and/or overestimating the number of acceptees willing to take their offer. Maybe they were cautious not to over-enroll and the previous admissions model just didn't pan out this time. Maybe they don't give a shit about the median drop, it's not like they're dropping out of the T14.

I think more the latter, and I think that speaks highly of Cornell. They aren't slaves to USNEWS.

[top30man]

hmm I don't think location is determinative. I think a significant number of applicants to top schools don't care about the college-town atmosphere, at least not above the importance of attending a school with good employment outcomes. UM and UVA are filling 700 seats total and holding higher medians. They're ranked higher, too, but I would guess this has to do with Cornell being stingy and/or overestimating the number of acceptees willing to take their offer. Maybe they were cautious not to over-enroll and the previous admissions model just didn't pan out this time. Maybe they don't give a shit about the median drop, it's not like they're dropping out of the T14.

I think more the latter, and I think that speaks highly of Cornell. They aren't slaves to USNEWS.

Yeah I thnk thats true. They tend to not be as generous compared to peer schools. They also seem to not care about medians that much. It still doesn't look good though.

[iMisto]

Hmm... keep discussing your theories please.

[Rahviveh]

All adcoms are slaves to US News. That is literally what they are paid to do - to be slaves. If they mess up the medians they get fired. Cornell just has too much trouble fighting the bad image of Ithaca, so its medians suffer as a result (despite its great job placement which is a peer to most T10's).

[iMisto]

All adcoms are slaves to US News. That is literally what they are paid to do - to be slaves. If they mess up the medians they get fired. Cornell just has too much trouble fighting the bad image of Ithaca, so its medians suffer as a result (despite its great job placement which is a peer to most T10's).

Do dips in medians ever translate to poor OCI or employment stats?? Do firms pay attention to this stuff?

[justonemoregame]

All adcoms are slaves to US News. That is literally what they are paid to do - to be slaves. If they mess up the medians they get fired. Cornell just has too much trouble fighting the bad image of Ithaca, so its medians suffer as a result (despite its great job placement which is a peer to most T10's).

So Cornell can't pull people from Vandy, WUSTL, and Georgetown because ewwww Ithaca? I dunno about that. It seems more likely to me that more people with 168-170s were shopping around for $$ this cycle.

[Rahviveh]

All adcoms are slaves to US News. That is literally what they are paid to do - to be slaves. If they mess up the medians they get fired. Cornell just has too much trouble fighting the bad image of Ithaca, so its medians suffer as a result (despite its great job placement which is a peer to most T10's).

Do dips in medians ever translate to poor OCI or employment stats?? Do firms pay attention to this stuff?

Nope. Cornell had really strong placement prior to the crash (its 2011 placement was bad, but not much worse than a lot of other T10's). According to current students they are bouncing back well! Firms don't look at medians, they already have their preconceived notions of each school.

So Cornell can't pull people from Vandy, WUSTL, and Georgetown because ewwww Ithaca? I dunno about that. It seems more likely to me that more people with 168-170s were shopping around for $$ this cycle.

Just from anecdotal experience, Cornell usually does a good job of matching peer schools in scholarship amounts. And Georgetown is WAY stingier than Cornell.

If you're right, it could change this year thanks to the $25 million gift Cornell Law received, which it claims to use at least partly for scholarship money.

[justonemoregame]

But Cornell's peers, like Duke, NW, and GULC all have 170 medians, which Cornell wouldn't need to maintain its own. I mean, maybe it's matching scholarships for people with 170+/3.7+, but those folks may be getting MVPB in a similar financial situation. What about the 168/169 crowd (and splitters) who didn't get $ from Cornell's peers or other T14s? Those people were getting money from WUSTL and Vandy and other T25s, but I doubt Cornell was matching.

Seems to me if they wanted those stats, they could have had them. I dunno - maybe they're in a dead zone outside the T-10, where the numbers really started to crunch. Should be interesting to see Northwestern and GULC.

[danquayle]

Ann Arbor??? Charlottesville??????

Both have better reps than Ithaca as college towns, especially Ann Arbor (though undeservedly, IMO, and I've visited all three). Both considered "fun" places whereas Ithaca is where fun goes to die. And the weather is not comparable.

Yeah Ithaca has a really bad reputation. I think it's one reason people stay away.

Also keep in mind that Ann Arbor is the most attractive city in what is still a major, economically important, metropolitan area. Both are cold weather cities, and Ithaca is kind of in the middle of no where. What is the closest metro, Rochester? And still over an hour away, right?

And I have to think Charlottesville's climate gives it an edge over Ithaca as well. I really think the whole Ivy league thing is what keeps Cornell afloat. (Not that the prestige of such an affiliation is illegitimate).

[Tom Joad]

Just checking in to say Ithaca is fun.

[Nova]

Minnesota's orientation started today.

I'm pleased to announce the medians remain 3.8/167

They accomplished this by reducing the class size from 245 to 205.

[HBBJohnStamos]

Cornell 2012 medians: 167, 3.68. http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/admiss ... plying.cfm

Keep your fingers crossed for me, ladies!

What were they last year?

This is honestly kind of pathetic.

[top30man]

This is honestly kind of pathetic.

Arent you happy to be here?

[HBBJohnStamos]

Whether that's sarcasm or not, yes. But it still fucking sucks.

ETA: all the more reason to form a gunner clique now.

ETAA: f7u12

[soj]

Whether that's sarcasm or not, yes. But it still fucking sucks.

ETA: all the more reason to form a gunner clique now.

ETAA: f7u12

Who cares, dude?

[Tom Joad]

ETA: all the more reason to form a gunner clique now.

Get those prestigious friends.

[DaleCooper]

So Cornell can't pull people from Vandy, WUSTL, and Georgetown because ewwww Ithaca? I dunno about that.

At one point in my cycle, I had sent a grateful withdrawal letter to Cornell and a seat deposit to Georgetown. Meanwhile, one of my friends turned down Cornell for UCLA.

So yes. The employment stats and the athletic conference are fantastic, but the weather really is that bad.