BYU's rep amongst non-Mormons Forum

[LawandOrder]

As a non-Mormon my view of BYU law is that they suck and are not worth attending. It should be noted that this is also my view of all non-T14 law schools.

On a slightly related note, you mormons sure have an awesome temple over here in Maryland.



View from highway: --ImageRemoved--

You come over a hill and are directly facing the temple for 2 or so miles as you head downhill at it.

[kittenmittons]

I think Colbert

[sirchristaylor]

He thinks a person not of the Mormon faith would do just fine there.

I think job placement he would "do just fine," but whether or not a non-Mormon will be fine with the social environment is the most important question they could ask themselves before attending.

I am a BYU undergrad right now. I know a few non-Mormons attending BYU. Some have married Mormons while here, some have converted, some are passionately against converting. The common thread in all of them is they wanted to go to a school with conservative values and they did not mind living the BYU honor code - which includes no extra-marital sex and no alcohol. For many law students, both of those would be immediate deal breakers.

I love it here at BYU. The education has been amazing. The cost of living and tuition are incredibly affordable. However, by no means do I think everyone would be fine here.

Yes, the honor code = immediate dealbreaker.

[MC Southstar]

Yes, the honor code = immediate dealbreaker.

Who needs alcohol when you can get high on Native American Jesus?

[sirchristaylor]

As a non-Mormon my view of BYU law is that they suck and are not worth attending. It should be noted that this is also my view of all non-T14 law schools.

On a slightly related note, you mormons sure have an awesome temple over here in Maryland.



View from highway: --ImageRemoved--

You come over a hill and are directly facing the temple for 2 or so miles as you head downhill at it.

It's pretty magical.

[Aberzombie1892]

Ranking : Brigham Young University (Clark)

Top Law Schools of 2009
Score 58
Peer assessment score (5.0 highest) 2.8
Assessment score by lawyers/judges (5.0 highest) 3.3
25th-75th percentile GPA scores for all students 3.51-3.88
25th-75th percentile LSAT scores for all students 161-166
Overall acceptance rate 30.5%
Student/faculty ratio 17.2
Graduates employed at graduation 80.4%
Graduates known to be employed nine months after graduation 99.5%
School's bar passage rate for first-time test takers 96.1%
State where the greatest number of first-time test takers took the bar UT
Statewide bar passage rate for first-time test takers 84.7%

It's peer assessment score is probably what kills it in the rankings (bc it counts for sooooooo much - 25% of the total score I believe).

Careers : Brigham Young University (Clark)

Bar Statistics (Winter and Summer 2007 administrations)
State where the greatest number of first-time test takers took the bar UT
School's bar passage rate for first-time test takers 96.1%
Statewide bar passage rate for first-time test takers 84.7%
Class of 2007 Graduates
Total graduates 150
Graduates employed at graduation 80.4%
Graduates known to be employed nine months after graduation 99.5%
Starting Salaries of 2007 Graduates Employed Full-time
25th percentile private sector starting salary $87,000
Median private sector starting salary $102,500
75th percentile private sector starting salary $135,000
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information 48% (48% of 56% in private practice reporting = top ~27%)
Median public service starting salary $41,000
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 1.0%
Percent employed in business and industry 17.0%
Percent employed in government 9.0%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 14.0%
Percent employed in law firms 56.0%
Percent employed in public interest 3.0%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.0%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 14.0%
2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 43%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 1%
Number of states where graduates are employed 21
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) N/A
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 4.1%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 3.4%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 0.7%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 4.1%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 1.4%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 3.4%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 20.7%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 59.3%
Employment location unknown 1.4%

[erico]

Ranking : Brigham Young University (Clark)

Top Law Schools of 2009
Score 58
Peer assessment score (5.0 highest) 2.8
Assessment score by lawyers/judges (5.0 highest) 3.3
25th-75th percentile GPA scores for all students 3.51-3.88
25th-75th percentile LSAT scores for all students 161-166
Overall acceptance rate 30.5%
Student/faculty ratio 17.2
Graduates employed at graduation 80.4%
Graduates known to be employed nine months after graduation 99.5%
School's bar passage rate for first-time test takers 96.1%
State where the greatest number of first-time test takers took the bar UT
Statewide bar passage rate for first-time test takers 84.7%

It's peer assessment score is probably what kills it in the rankings (bc it counts for sooooooo much - 25% of the total score I believe).

Careers : Brigham Young University (Clark)

Bar Statistics (Winter and Summer 2007 administrations)
State where the greatest number of first-time test takers took the bar UT
School's bar passage rate for first-time test takers 96.1%
Statewide bar passage rate for first-time test takers 84.7%
Class of 2007 Graduates
Total graduates 150
Graduates employed at graduation 80.4%
Graduates known to be employed nine months after graduation 99.5%
Starting Salaries of 2007 Graduates Employed Full-time
25th percentile private sector starting salary $87,000
Median private sector starting salary $102,500
75th percentile private sector starting salary $135,000
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information 48% (48% of 56% in private practice reporting = top ~27%)
Median public service starting salary $41,000
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 1.0%
Percent employed in business and industry 17.0%
Percent employed in government 9.0%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 14.0%
Percent employed in law firms 56.0%
Percent employed in public interest 3.0%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.0%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 14.0%
2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 43%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 1%
Number of states where graduates are employed 21
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) N/A
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 4.1%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 3.4%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 0.7%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 4.1%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 1.4%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 3.4%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 20.7%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 59.3%
Employment location unknown 1.4%

I'm curious where you found this info. From their website or?

[Aberzombie1892]

US News

[anmo]

looks like straight out of the US News & World Report Rankings... http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... tems/03156 You'll need to buy a subscription to see full details,or just go to your pre-law office or whatever you have on your campus. Someone should have the publication for you to browse.

[erico]

looks like straight out of the US News & World Report Rankings... http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... tems/03156 You'll need to buy a subscription to see full details,or just go to your pre-law office or whatever you have on your campus. Someone should have the publication for you to browse.

Ok, thanks. Haha, pre-law office. I've been out of school for a few years now but maybe I could scam it at UCSD.

[James Bond]

I like wild sex and well...wearing shorts...

BYU's kinda out

[tomhobbes]

I like wild sex and well...wearing shorts...

BYU's kinda out

Flip flops and beards are the real evil.

[wired]

Flip flops are legal. Beards are still out right now, but I think there is a growing consensus that the policy will change soon. It's an anachronistic policy implemented by the most conservative President BYU had (Wilkinson) against the counterculture of the late 60s and early 70s.

[violaboy]

If you go to BYU, consider that you will be stuck in the Mountain West (probably Utah) for the rest of your life. My cousin went to BYU Law and he says that most of his classmates are still in Utah and that he is one of the lucky few who have good jobs outside of Utah.

Fwiw, I'm a BYU undergrad and there's no way I'm going to stay here. Three more years of Utah and you might as well just kill me.

[sundevil77]

When I went outside the Mormon community, I was surprised to learn that the rest of the world had far less respect for BYU than I had been led to believe. My brother (who attends BYU) is interviewing at many med schools right now and he says that he feels like people treat him a bit differently because of his school.

I wonder if its also because people are suspicious of someone's ability to engage with the broader community if a candidate went to school in an isolated atmosphere.

Mormon here. I've done my UG at one of the largest public schools in the country and I don't believe my ability to "engage" is questionable because of my religion. If I did go to law school at BYU, I don't think said ability to "engage" would suffer.

I like wild sex and well...wearing shorts...

BYU's kinda out

If you're married it's all good. Your ok with shorts too (as long as they're not short-shorts.

To the OP...I think you should treat BYU as a good regional school. Just like a similarly ranked school, say Univ. of Washington, that place well in the Northwest, BYU places well in the Mountain West region. If you're looking to work in Utah, Arizona, or some other state in the region, I think it's a good option. Seriously, their is NO comparative bang-for-the-buck law education in the country. $10,000 bucks and a low COL is a pretty good deal. As long as you share the value system, there is no reason not to consider it.

[violaboy]

Flip flops are legal. Beards are still out right now, but I think there is a growing consensus that the policy will change soon. It's an anachronistic policy implemented by the most conservative President BYU had (Wilkinson) against the counterculture of the late 60s and early 70s.

But you can have a mustache. That's some class.

[James Bond]

Flip flops are legal. Beards are still out right now, but I think there is a growing consensus that the policy will change soon. It's an anachronistic policy implemented by the most conservative President BYU had (Wilkinson) against the counterculture of the late 60s and early 70s.

But you can have a mustache. That's some class.

what about a child molestache?

[paratactical]

.

[erico]

When I went outside the Mormon community, I was surprised to learn that the rest of the world had far less respect for BYU than I had been led to believe. My brother (who attends BYU) is interviewing at many med schools right now and he says that he feels like people treat him a bit differently because of his school.

I wonder if its also because people are suspicious of someone's ability to engage with the broader community if a candidate went to school in an isolated atmosphere.

Mormon here. I've done my UG at one of the largest public schools in the country and I don't believe my ability to "engage" is questionable because of my religion. If I did go to law school at BYU, I don't think said ability to "engage" would suffer.

I like wild sex and well...wearing shorts...

BYU's kinda out

If you're married it's all good. Your ok with shorts too (as long as they're not short-shorts.

To the OP...I think you should treat BYU as a good regional school. Just like a similarly ranked school, say Univ. of Washington, that place well in the Northwest, BYU places well in the Mountain West region. If you're looking to work in Utah, Arizona, or some other state in the region, I think it's a good option. Seriously, their is NO comparative bang-for-the-buck law education in the country. $10,000 bucks and a low COL is a pretty good deal. As long as you share the value system, there is no reason not to consider it.

Thanks, that is useful information. So far it looks like I'm stacking BYU against some schools like Indiana, Illinois, Washington. I'm also applying to UCLA and USC but am doubtful for those. Some are slightly better in the rankings but I'm not sure if the cost is justified. Of course, I haven't even sent in my apps yet so this is all preliminary discussion.

[wardboro]

If you want to stay out in the Mountain West, then skip Illinois and Indiana. They are viewed as peer schools, not as better schools and the cost is not justified. UW is worth the app, but its marginal (and I mean marginal) prestige bonus over BYU probably isn't worth the cost difference. As far as UCLA/USC, those schools are a full step above BYU and if you get in you'll have a tough choice to make.

[Lord Jim-ish]

.

[erico]

When I went outside the Mormon community, I was surprised to learn that the rest of the world had far less respect for BYU than I had been led to believe. My brother (who attends BYU) is interviewing at many med schools right now and he says that he feels like people treat him a bit differently because of his school.

I wonder if its also because people are suspicious of someone's ability to engage with the broader community if a candidate went to school in an isolated atmosphere.

Mormon here. I've done my UG at one of the largest public schools in the country and I don't believe my ability to "engage" is questionable because of my religion. If I did go to law school at BYU, I don't think said ability to "engage" would suffer.

Your ability to engage =/= my (initial, stereotypical) perception of your ability to engage nor my perception of Mormons in general. Unfortunate but true. Kind of like how those rancid queers (sarcasm) are looked down on by those of your ilk (not sarcasm).

What's =/= ?

[erico]

If you want to stay out in the Mountain West, then skip Illinois and Indiana. They are viewed as peer schools, not as better schools and the cost is not justified. UW is worth the app, but its marginal (and I mean marginal) prestige bonus over BYU probably isn't worth the cost difference. As far as UCLA/USC, those schools are a full step above BYU and if you get in you'll have a tough choice to make.

My goal is to work in San Diego or southern CA...

[wired]

Your ability to engage =/= my (initial, stereotypical) perception of your ability to engage nor my perception of Mormons in general. Unfortunate but true. Kind of like how those rancid queers (sarcasm) are looked down on by those of your ilk (not sarcasm).

Yeah, but just because it isn't sarcasm doesn't make it true.

[wardboro]

If you're targeting Southern California then I'd say go big (T14/UCLA/USC) go good regional (USD maybe Loyola) or go good cheap (BYU). You'll have to find stats for yourself, but I'm fairly sure that BYU places a good share more kids in SoCal than do the two midwest schools you listed.