So what makes Alabama a T30 law school? Forum

[Helmholtz]

Alabama is one of the most overrated schools in the entire USNWR rankings. It should be somewhere in the mid '40s. It's in the same league as schools like UGA, Tulane, Florida, Colorado, and BYU.

All of which (except maybe BYU) I'd go to over Alabama

As long as you don't anything totally absurd like drink a diet coke or a glass of iced tea or wear shorts that don't extend to the knee, you'd fit in fine at BYU, biv0ns.

I hope you're kidding. I knew it was a bit weird there, but seriously?

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[James Bond]

just...wow...

[GATORTIM]

So what makes Alabama a T30 law school?

They will drop in rankings once this ass-clown leaves......

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[Helmholtz]

just...wow...

Yeah, but it's actually a really, really good school for the price. The majority of the people going there were probably already following the goofy Mormon laws before law school, so it's not that much of an imposition. LDS members can go to BYU Law for less than $10k/yr. Tack on COA and you're probably looking at less than $60k for three years of law school. Not bad for a tier one school. More than half of the university is funded by LDS church donations, so that's how they're keeping fees so low.

[James Bond]

just...wow...

Yeah, but it's actually a really, really good school for the price. The majority of the people going there were probably already following the goofy Mormon laws before law school, so it's not that much of an imposition. LDS members can go to BYU Law for less than $10k/yr. Tack on COA and you're probably looking at less than $60k for three years of law school. Not bad for a tier one school. More than half of the university is funded by LDS church donations, so that's how they're keeping fees so low.

Yes, but I used to be raised Catholic and I thought THAT was imposing

[Helmholtz]

just...wow...

Yeah, but it's actually a really, really good school for the price. The majority of the people going there were probably already following the goofy Mormon laws before law school, so it's not that much of an imposition. LDS members can go to BYU Law for less than $10k/yr. Tack on COA and you're probably looking at less than $60k for three years of law school. Not bad for a tier one school. More than half of the university is funded by LDS church donations, so that's how they're keeping fees so low.

Yes, but I used to be raised Catholic and I thought THAT was imposing

Oh, don't get me wrong. There is no way in hell that I would go, but I was just saying for somebody who's already mormon, it might be a pretty safe bet.

[General Tso]

mormons are jew wannabes

[cbreault]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

You, of course, have absolutely zero evidence or reason to support your assertion that "the starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class." As the numbers show, as a percentage of their respective classes, UGA placed around 50% more of its class in Federal clerkships than Emory (I learned the exact number through a phone to UGA Career Services. Place a call or email yourself if you'd like to dispute this). From 2000-2009, UGA ranked in the top 10 in Supreme Court clerkship placement. Emory has never in its history placed a student in a US Supreme Court clerkship. UGA has placed students in SCOTUS clerkships 4 out of the last 5 years.

Are these some of the "stark" differences you're alluding to in the difference between the top quarters of the class? I guess the Emory students are just simply turning down SCOTUS and other Federal clerkship for better opportunities.

Any with regard to Emory's "farther reach," 82.22% of 22.48% of Emory grads went to New York and New York State, which means 18.5% of those employed went, which means 18.5% of the 88.85% employed went, which means 16.4% went to New York State and NYC. It's funny how Emory conveniently left unclarified is how many went to New York City and how many went to New York state.

Another thing to consider is the fact the Emory grads leaving Atlanta are not going to major legal markets and making biglaw market (145-160K) or else their average starting salaries wouldn't be $20,000 below the Atlanta biglaw average of 145K. So, yeah, more Emory grads leave the region, but what kind of jobs are they getting.

[cbreault]

Emory also sent about 20% more people into private practice and the avg salary is only 5k lower. Regardless UGA is a great school and if you are in-state there is really no reason to go to Emory.

They didn't send about 20% more into private practice, since the 71.77% who went into private practice was not a percentage of the whole class, but only a percentage of the class who were employed. Around 12% of the Emory class was UNEMPLOYED, and so 71.77% of the 88.85% who actually got jobs is 63.78% of the entire Emory class. For UGA: 57.5 of the 98.1% who were employed is 56.4% taking private practice jobs. A difference of 7%, not 20.

And don't forget that 7% of the UGA class took jobs in business averaging $138,000.

And also, UGA placed 4% more students in Federal judicial clerkships, and these students could have easily landed market paying biglaw jobs.

UGA's employment number is not 98%, it is 95% which makes the private practice gap about 10%. And the 7% in business making 138k is bullshit. An inordinately high salary is bloating that figure.

No, it doesn't because the 3% who aren't "employed" are still considered "set" since they are enrolled in other graduate programs.

And in the business category, even if you remove the individual making $250,000, the average is still over $129,000.

[Aberzombie1892]

I think that everyone understands by now that UGA and Emory are almost equal (they each have pros and cons over the other; however UGA is probably the better choice barring full scholarships to both). Tulane has a little more mobility than UGA, Florida, Colorado, and BYU (by that I mean at any given rank, a Tulane graduate would have more choices in more states - namely Louisiana, Texas, California, NY/DC, and Florida [in declining order]). Of course, Atlanta is in Georgia - this would mean that someone would be making a mistake to go to UGA and not want Atlanta (the same can be said about Emory). Florida has some distinctive markets (like Miami) which their graduates tend to stay (otherwise, they would not have gone there). I know very little about Colorado, so I am not going to comment. BYU does really well in Utah (how Utah has two law schools in the top 50 is beyond me). However, Utah has some good legal markets as well. Tulane's "mobility" is the result of a long period self selection, and this is what makes it stand out amongst similarly ranked schools (any school beyond the T20). Historically, ~70% of the its graduates leave the state (due to common law/civil law differences). Over time, this led to Tulane being essentially annexed by Texas (for common law). Of course, many graduates want other states/markets, hence the earlier list. I am not the type of person who is going to sit here and say Tulane is dramatically better than a lot of the other schools ranked higher than it is. Tulane is as good as the others, but it just has more than one market attached to it (which not many none T13 schools -Cornell- have). However, I cannot say with a straight face that Alabama is as good as or better than Tulane.

[Helmholtz]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

You, of course, have absolutely zero evidence or reason to support your assertion that "the starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class." As the numbers show, as a percentage of their respective classes, UGA placed around 50% more of its class in Federal clerkships than Emory (I learned the exact number through a phone to UGA Career Services. Place a call or email yourself if you'd like to dispute this). From 2000-2009, UGA ranked in the top 10 in Supreme Court clerkship placement. Emory has never in its history placed a student in a US Supreme Court clerkship. UGA has placed students in SCOTUS clerkships 4 out of the last 5 years.

Are these some of the "stark" differences you're alluding to in the difference between the top quarters of the class? I guess the Emory students are just simply turning down SCOTUS and other Federal clerkship for better opportunities.

Any with regard to Emory's "farther reach," 82.22% of 22.48% of Emory grads went to New York and New York State, which means 18.5% of those employed went, which means 18.5% of the 88.85% employed went, which means 16.4% went to New York State and NYC. It's funny how Emory conveniently left unclarified is how many went to New York City and how many went to New York state.

Another thing to consider is the fact the Emory grads leaving Atlanta are not going to major legal markets and making biglaw market (145-160K) or else their average starting salaries wouldn't be $20,000 below the Atlanta biglaw average of 145K. So, yeah, more Emory grads leave the region, but what kind of jobs are they getting.

I was going to respond to this, but I really don't have the time to get into an argument with somebody who seems so emotionally tied up in UGA's honor. You obviously care about this a hell of a lot more than I do. I have pretty much 0% interest in both of the schools and don't really give a shit over UGA's federal clerkship rate or how many Emory students are going to NYC vs. New York State.

[General Tso]

good...Aberzombie has finally arrived. Please tell us all how Tulane is the best non T20 in terms of national reputation...it is a topic of great interest to everyone here

[Aberzombie1892]

good...Aberzombie has finally arrived. Please tell us all how Tulane is the best non T20 in terms of national reputation...it is a topic of great interest to everyone here

I had to explain it to all the little kids...

[rondemarino]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

You, of course, have absolutely zero evidence or reason to support your assertion that "the starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class." As the numbers show, as a percentage of their respective classes, UGA placed around 50% more of its class in Federal clerkships than Emory (I learned the exact number through a phone to UGA Career Services. Place a call or email yourself if you'd like to dispute this). From 2000-2009, UGA ranked in the top 10 in Supreme Court clerkship placement. Emory has never in its history placed a student in a US Supreme Court clerkship. UGA has placed students in SCOTUS clerkships 4 out of the last 5 years.

Are these some of the "stark" differences you're alluding to in the difference between the top quarters of the class? I guess the Emory students are just simply turning down SCOTUS and other Federal clerkship for better opportunities.

Any with regard to Emory's "farther reach," 82.22% of 22.48% of Emory grads went to New York and New York State, which means 18.5% of those employed went, which means 18.5% of the 88.85% employed went, which means 16.4% went to New York State and NYC. It's funny how Emory conveniently left unclarified is how many went to New York City and how many went to New York state.

Another thing to consider is the fact the Emory grads leaving Atlanta are not going to major legal markets and making biglaw market (145-160K) or else their average starting salaries wouldn't be $20,000 below the Atlanta biglaw average of 145K. So, yeah, more Emory grads leave the region, but what kind of jobs are they getting.

Regarding Big Law Placement: (http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf)

Not sure what the point of brining up SCOTUS clerkships is. Doesn't Alito pluck people out of BYU, or something? No reasonable person would argue that BYU is better than any of the top 15-20 schools in the nation that have fewer SCOTUS clerks.

[cbreault]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

You, of course, have absolutely zero evidence or reason to support your assertion that "the starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class." As the numbers show, as a percentage of their respective classes, UGA placed around 50% more of its class in Federal clerkships than Emory (I learned the exact number through a phone to UGA Career Services. Place a call or email yourself if you'd like to dispute this). From 2000-2009, UGA ranked in the top 10 in Supreme Court clerkship placement. Emory has never in its history placed a student in a US Supreme Court clerkship. UGA has placed students in SCOTUS clerkships 4 out of the last 5 years.

Are these some of the "stark" differences you're alluding to in the difference between the top quarters of the class? I guess the Emory students are just simply turning down SCOTUS and other Federal clerkship for better opportunities.

Any with regard to Emory's "farther reach," 82.22% of 22.48% of Emory grads went to New York and New York State, which means 18.5% of those employed went, which means 18.5% of the 88.85% employed went, which means 16.4% went to New York State and NYC. It's funny how Emory conveniently left unclarified is how many went to New York City and how many went to New York state.

Another thing to consider is the fact the Emory grads leaving Atlanta are not going to major legal markets and making biglaw market (145-160K) or else their average starting salaries wouldn't be $20,000 below the Atlanta biglaw average of 145K. So, yeah, more Emory grads leave the region, but what kind of jobs are they getting.

I was going to respond to this, but I really don't have the time to get into an argument with somebody who seems so emotionally tied up in UGA's honor. You obviously care about this a hell of a lot more than I do. I have pretty much 0% interest in both of the schools and don't really give a shit over UGA's federal clerkship rate or how many Emory students are going to NYC vs. New York State.

That's great to hear. Maybe you should consider that next time, before you start running off at the mouth concerning matters you have absolutely zero knowledge of.

And as a lesson, knowing the facts of a situation doesn't mean a person is emotionally tied up in that situation. In terms of emotion, your desperate little tirade is more indicative of emotionality than my taking up the argument at hand.

[Helmholtz]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

You, of course, have absolutely zero evidence or reason to support your assertion that "the starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class." As the numbers show, as a percentage of their respective classes, UGA placed around 50% more of its class in Federal clerkships than Emory (I learned the exact number through a phone to UGA Career Services. Place a call or email yourself if you'd like to dispute this). From 2000-2009, UGA ranked in the top 10 in Supreme Court clerkship placement. Emory has never in its history placed a student in a US Supreme Court clerkship. UGA has placed students in SCOTUS clerkships 4 out of the last 5 years.

Are these some of the "stark" differences you're alluding to in the difference between the top quarters of the class? I guess the Emory students are just simply turning down SCOTUS and other Federal clerkship for better opportunities.

Any with regard to Emory's "farther reach," 82.22% of 22.48% of Emory grads went to New York and New York State, which means 18.5% of those employed went, which means 18.5% of the 88.85% employed went, which means 16.4% went to New York State and NYC. It's funny how Emory conveniently left unclarified is how many went to New York City and how many went to New York state.

Another thing to consider is the fact the Emory grads leaving Atlanta are not going to major legal markets and making biglaw market (145-160K) or else their average starting salaries wouldn't be $20,000 below the Atlanta biglaw average of 145K. So, yeah, more Emory grads leave the region, but what kind of jobs are they getting.

I was going to respond to this, but I really don't have the time to get into an argument with somebody who seems so emotionally tied up in UGA's honor. You obviously care about this a hell of a lot more than I do. I have pretty much 0% interest in both of the schools and don't really give a shit over UGA's federal clerkship rate or how many Emory students are going to NYC vs. New York State.

That's great to hear. Maybe you should consider that next time, before you start running off at the mouth concerning matters you have absolutely zero knowledge of.

And as a lesson, knowing the facts of a situation doesn't mean a person is emotionally tied up in that situation. In terms of emotion, your desperate little tirade is more indicative of emotionality than my taking up the argument at hand.

lol, have fun at Georgia, dude

[Aberzombie1892]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

You, of course, have absolutely zero evidence or reason to support your assertion that "the starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class." As the numbers show, as a percentage of their respective classes, UGA placed around 50% more of its class in Federal clerkships than Emory (I learned the exact number through a phone to UGA Career Services. Place a call or email yourself if you'd like to dispute this). From 2000-2009, UGA ranked in the top 10 in Supreme Court clerkship placement. Emory has never in its history placed a student in a US Supreme Court clerkship. UGA has placed students in SCOTUS clerkships 4 out of the last 5 years.

Are these some of the "stark" differences you're alluding to in the difference between the top quarters of the class? I guess the Emory students are just simply turning down SCOTUS and other Federal clerkship for better opportunities.

Any with regard to Emory's "farther reach," 82.22% of 22.48% of Emory grads went to New York and New York State, which means 18.5% of those employed went, which means 18.5% of the 88.85% employed went, which means 16.4% went to New York State and NYC. It's funny how Emory conveniently left unclarified is how many went to New York City and how many went to New York state.

Another thing to consider is the fact the Emory grads leaving Atlanta are not going to major legal markets and making biglaw market (145-160K) or else their average starting salaries wouldn't be $20,000 below the Atlanta biglaw average of 145K. So, yeah, more Emory grads leave the region, but what kind of jobs are they getting.

I was going to respond to this, but I really don't have the time to get into an argument with somebody who seems so emotionally tied up in UGA's honor. You obviously care about this a hell of a lot more than I do. I have pretty much 0% interest in both of the schools and don't really give a shit over UGA's federal clerkship rate or how many Emory students are going to NYC vs. New York State.

That's great to hear. Maybe you should consider that next time, before you start running off at the mouth concerning matters you have absolutely zero knowledge of.

And as a lesson, knowing the facts of a situation doesn't mean a person is emotionally tied up in that situation. In terms of emotion, your desperate little tirade is more indicative of emotionality than my taking up the argument at hand.

Nice.

[john titor]

Emory also sent about 20% more people into private practice and the avg salary is only 5k lower. Regardless UGA is a great school and if you are in-state there is really no reason to go to Emory.

They didn't send about 20% more into private practice, since the 71.77% who went into private practice was not a percentage of the whole class, but only a percentage of the class who were employed. Around 12% of the Emory class was UNEMPLOYED, and so 71.77% of the 88.85% who actually got jobs is 63.78% of the entire Emory class. For UGA: 57.5 of the 98.1% who were employed is 56.4% taking private practice jobs. A difference of 7%, not 20.

And don't forget that 7% of the UGA class took jobs in business averaging $138,000.

And also, UGA placed 4% more students in Federal judicial clerkships, and these students could have easily landed market paying biglaw jobs.

I don't think all of these statistics are accurate. Where did you find the Federal clerkships for UGA? I didn't see it in the link. Also, I know of two UGA students in that class that were unemployed, and I really don't know many people from there. They list one. Must be a mistake somewhere.

it's not a mistake. UGA, just like every other law school, cooks the books and fudges employment numbers. the fact that anyone takes a school's self-reported employment stats as even remotely true makes me laugh out loud.

[john titor]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

You, of course, have absolutely zero evidence or reason to support your assertion that "the starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class." As the numbers show, as a percentage of their respective classes, UGA placed around 50% more of its class in Federal clerkships than Emory (I learned the exact number through a phone to UGA Career Services. Place a call or email yourself if you'd like to dispute this). From 2000-2009, UGA ranked in the top 10 in Supreme Court clerkship placement. Emory has never in its history placed a student in a US Supreme Court clerkship. UGA has placed students in SCOTUS clerkships 4 out of the last 5 years.

Are these some of the "stark" differences you're alluding to in the difference between the top quarters of the class? I guess the Emory students are just simply turning down SCOTUS and other Federal clerkship for better opportunities.

Any with regard to Emory's "farther reach," 82.22% of 22.48% of Emory grads went to New York and New York State, which means 18.5% of those employed went, which means 18.5% of the 88.85% employed went, which means 16.4% went to New York State and NYC. It's funny how Emory conveniently left unclarified is how many went to New York City and how many went to New York state.

Another thing to consider is the fact the Emory grads leaving Atlanta are not going to major legal markets and making biglaw market (145-160K) or else their average starting salaries wouldn't be $20,000 below the Atlanta biglaw average of 145K. So, yeah, more Emory grads leave the region, but what kind of jobs are they getting.

Regarding Big Law Placement: (http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf)

Not sure what the point of brining up SCOTUS clerkships is. Doesn't Alito pluck people out of BYU, or something? No reasonable person would argue that BYU is better than any of the top 15-20 schools in the nation that have fewer SCOTUS clerks.

edited to remove assclownery

[cbreault]

The one thing that Emory does have a clear leg up on UGA is farther reach (especially when it comes to NYC). Federal clerkships are around the same, Emory gets a little better placement into biglaw, etc. but for the median student at each school, there really isn't going to be that big of a difference. The starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class.

You, of course, have absolutely zero evidence or reason to support your assertion that "the starkest difference will probably be when comparing the top quarters of each class." As the numbers show, as a percentage of their respective classes, UGA placed around 50% more of its class in Federal clerkships than Emory (I learned the exact number through a phone to UGA Career Services. Place a call or email yourself if you'd like to dispute this). From 2000-2009, UGA ranked in the top 10 in Supreme Court clerkship placement. Emory has never in its history placed a student in a US Supreme Court clerkship. UGA has placed students in SCOTUS clerkships 4 out of the last 5 years.

Are these some of the "stark" differences you're alluding to in the difference between the top quarters of the class? I guess the Emory students are just simply turning down SCOTUS and other Federal clerkship for better opportunities.

Any with regard to Emory's "farther reach," 82.22% of 22.48% of Emory grads went to New York and New York State, which means 18.5% of those employed went, which means 18.5% of the 88.85% employed went, which means 16.4% went to New York State and NYC. It's funny how Emory conveniently left unclarified is how many went to New York City and how many went to New York state.

Another thing to consider is the fact the Emory grads leaving Atlanta are not going to major legal markets and making biglaw market (145-160K) or else their average starting salaries wouldn't be $20,000 below the Atlanta biglaw average of 145K. So, yeah, more Emory grads leave the region, but what kind of jobs are they getting.

Regarding Big Law Placement: (http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf)

Not sure what the point of brining up SCOTUS clerkships is. Doesn't Alito pluck people out of BYU, or something? No reasonable person would argue that BYU is better than any of the top 15-20 schools in the nation that have fewer SCOTUS clerks.

yeah. the only reason why UGA has had any SCOTUS clerks is because clarence thomas is fucking crazy. he picks the craziest right wingers in each graduating class. if it werent for that half-retarded gullah ideologue, uga would have zero scotus clerks.

To clear up any misunderstanding, the 4 students who clerked for the US Supreme Court during the last 5 years clerked for Justice Stephen Breyer, Justice John Paul Stevens, Chief Justice John Roberts, and as has already been related to us by our disillusioned friend, John, Justice Clarence Thomas.

[john titor]

oh, my bad. I see that I was wrong about the scotus justices thing.

you don't have to get so personal though. it's not UGA's fault that my grades werent the best. I wasnt at the bottom of my class, but I was below median. I'm certainly not blaming my school for that. I got bad grades because I didn't learn how to write a law school exam until midway through 2L. I'm fine with where I am. I have a good job in a place I'm lucky to be able to practice in. I just can't stand justice thomas. uga does cook employment numbers, but that's not special - every school does that.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

So what makes Alamaba a T30 law school

Rankings fraud.

[TTH]

So what makes Alamaba a T30 law school

This guy:

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ROLL TIDE!

[tha trev]

Alabama is one of the most overrated schools in the entire USNWR rankings. It should be somewhere in the mid '40s. It's in the same league as schools like [strike]UGA,[/strike]Tulane, Florida, Colorado, and BYU.

fixt.

[GATORTIM]

So what makes Alabama a T30 law school?

They recently installed an exclusive pool for law students....

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