Michgan vs Columbia Forum

[Clemenceau]

Get any money from Duke? It has superior placement than Mich, and is certainly cheaper than CLS. Would be a nice option if you got 60k or so.

Paying 30k more for Duke is ridiculous. I wish proof of current law school attendance or graduation was a requirement before being allowed to give advice....

I'm a 2L, thanks.

1. Duke's placement is better than michigan's. 75% and 77% BL/FC for the last two years we have the numbers for. Umich is 61% and 54%. That's a significant difference, and it's worth paying for. I can tell from a mile away that you have some allegiance to michigan.

2. OP is clearly getting some financial assistance for his or her family. Paying a 30k premium for a superior school when you have a parental subsidy is a perfectly rational move. The best decision? Hard to say. But rational? Sure.

3. Chill out and maybe take 2 seconds to see that I've been posting here for 3 years before assuming I'm a 0L.

1. You seem to have used Duke's 2015 and 2016 numbers, but then Michigan's 2014 and 2015 numbers. What school do you go to?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=276222

^Michigan's numbers for this year arent updated, so I just used what was available from that OP and last year's OP.

I go to Penn.

Edit: wasn't trying to be deceptive. I just dont know michigans numbers this year. Feel free to enlighten me though, if you have them.

[Iwanttolawschool]

Get any money from Duke? It has superior placement than Mich, and is certainly cheaper than CLS. Would be a nice option if you got 60k or so.

Paying 30k more for Duke is ridiculous. I wish proof of current law school attendance or graduation was a requirement before being allowed to give advice....

I'm a 2L, thanks.

1. Duke's placement is better than michigan's. 75% and 77% BL/FC for the last two years we have the numbers for. Umich is 61% and 54%. That's a significant difference, and it's worth paying for. I can tell from a mile away that you have some allegiance to michigan.

2. OP is clearly getting some financial assistance for his or her family. Paying a 30k premium for a superior school when you have a parental subsidy is a perfectly rational move. The best decision? Hard to say. But rational? Sure.

3. Chill out and maybe take 2 seconds to see that I've been posting here for 3 years before assuming I'm a 0L.

1. You seem to have used Duke's 2015 and 2016 numbers, but then Michigan's 2014 and 2015 numbers. What school do you go to?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=276222

^Michigan's numbers for this year arent updated, so I just used what was available from that OP and last year's OP.

I go to Penn.

Edit: wasn't trying to be deceptive. I just dont know michigans numbers this year. Feel free to enlighten me though, if you have them.

Same thread. Page 15. Michigan at 66.4%

[cavalier1138]

Lol you're just trolling me now. Could not disagree more (and would say the same if Duke and Michigan were reversed here).

With schools like NYU Duke Michigan Penn Northwestern etc etc how you do is wayyyyy more important than which of the schools. Top 10% any of those schools you're gonna have a shot at an amazing career, bottom 10% you're gonna need to hustle. If you think one school will provide a better environment, that's huge. This is why I picked Michigan over NYU and consider it one of the better decisions I've made. Michigan offered a better environment for me.

Get any money from Duke? It has superior placement than Mich, and is certainly cheaper than CLS. Would be a nice option if you got 60k or so.

I did, but I just didn't love it there after visiting. Faculty seemed great but that's about it. Had a much more positive feeling from Michigan and Columbia, but that's just me. I had thought I was going to love Duke.

Do you love the idea of better job placement numbers?

The "feel" of a school is one of the last things you should consider during this process. Not that it's unimportant, but it's well behind the cost of attendance and job prospects.

Ok, let me try this again.

Tell me which part of the thought, "It's well behind the cost of attendance and job prospects," you find confusing or objectionable.

[nyu2019maybeplease]

But seriously, what school do you go to?

Best of luck, OP. Let me know if you have any questions.

Lol you're just trolling me now. Could not disagree more (and would say the same if Duke and Michigan were reversed here).

With schools like NYU Duke Michigan Penn Northwestern etc etc how you do is wayyyyy more important than which of the schools. Top 10% any of those schools you're gonna have a shot at an amazing career, bottom 10% you're gonna need to hustle. If you think one school will provide a better environment, that's huge. This is why I picked Michigan over NYU and consider it one of the better decisions I've made. Michigan offered a better environment for me.

Get any money from Duke? It has superior placement than Mich, and is certainly cheaper than CLS. Would be a nice option if you got 60k or so.

I did, but I just didn't love it there after visiting. Faculty seemed great but that's about it. Had a much more positive feeling from Michigan and Columbia, but that's just me. I had thought I was going to love Duke.

Do you love the idea of better job placement numbers?

The "feel" of a school is one of the last things you should consider during this process. Not that it's unimportant, but it's well behind the cost of attendance and job prospects.

Ok, let me try this again.

Tell me which part of the thought, "It's well behind the cost of attendance and job prospects," you find confusing or objectionable.

[dabigchina]

Get any money from Duke? It has superior placement than Mich, and is certainly cheaper than CLS. Would be a nice option if you got 60k or so.

If OP has 90k from Michigan, he shouldn't need to pay 30 more for Duke. They are peer schools and should be willing to at least match each other.

[Clemenceau]

Get any money from Duke? It has superior placement than Mich, and is certainly cheaper than CLS. Would be a nice option if you got 60k or so.

If OP has 90k from Michigan, he shouldn't need to pay 30 more for Duke. They are peer schools and should be willing to at least match each other.

I generally agree, I was just wondering if there was another option on the table. OP said money wasn't a big factor, so I figured if Duke, which outplaces Mich by the numbers, was in the same price range, it'd be a solid option. Call me crazy.

[undecided2020]

OP here.
$75,000 from Duke just for more info, asked for increase based on Michigan, waiting for response.

Does everyone think that Duke >Michigan significantly? In terms of employment prospects? I had been assuming that they were about equal.

[Clemenceau]

OP here.
$75,000 from Duke just for more info, asked for increase based on Michigan, waiting for response.

Does everyone think that Duke >Michigan significantly? In terms of employment prospects? I had been assuming that they were about equal.

You'll find plenty of people around here that will tell you they're basically even. Personally, if I were to choose a school to put me in biglaw, I'd feel safer picking Duke, because the numbers are higher.

[nyu2019maybeplease]

I'd say the only sure thing is a lack of consensus on that point one way or the other. This forum has done this topic ad nauseum, but PM me if you want my two cents.

OP here.
$75,000 from Duke just for more info, asked for increase based on Michigan, waiting for response.

Does everyone think that Duke >Michigan significantly? In terms of employment prospects? I had been assuming that they were about equal.

[dabigchina]

OP here.
$75,000 from Duke just for more info, asked for increase based on Michigan, waiting for response.

Does everyone think that Duke >Michigan significantly? In terms of employment prospects? I had been assuming that they were about equal.

Personally, at equal cost I would go with Duke. As it stands I would say it's a tossup.

[01panm]

OP here.
$75,000 from Duke just for more info, asked for increase based on Michigan, waiting for response.

Does everyone think that Duke >Michigan significantly? In terms of employment prospects? I had been assuming that they were about equal.

Would go with Duke at this price point. Biglaw + clerk at Michigan is 61% and 74.6% at Duke. The spread in employment prospects is probably overstated because of Mich's PI lean, but it's still there.

[jbagelboy]

if money is of *no* import, then Columbia is a superior law school in terms of outcomes and opportunities.

If money matters, Michigan and Duke are peers as far as I can tell. $15k is close enough that you should absolutely decide based on fit, and if you like Michigan more, don't let TLS push you onto the school where you felt less comfortable.

[SUPERCHEF]

Assuming you are filthy (like parents are 8+ figure net worth) rich, sticker @ CLS is the best outcome for you.

Assuming you are upper middle class, and below, go to Michigan.

+1

[undecided2020]

Thanks for all the input. This is such a stressful decision. I know comfort and fit should not be my top priority perhaps but I know I do better academically when I'm comfortable and not stressing about extraneous other nonsense so I'd like my living situation to be as pleasant as possible.

Its just strange because the 2 I felt most comfortable at were Columbia and Michigan, which are two very different places.

Not to add more complications, but if I did want to do PI how do their LRAPs compare? (I can do my research too but just throwing the question out there)

[cavalier1138]

Thanks for all the input. This is such a stressful decision. I know comfort and fit should not be my top priority perhaps but I know I do better academically when I'm comfortable and not stressing about extraneous other nonsense so I'd like my living situation to be as pleasant as possible.

Its just strange because the 2 I felt most comfortable at were Columbia and Michigan, which are two very different places.

Not to add more complications, but if I did want to do PI how do their LRAPs compare? (I can do my research too but just throwing the question out there)

You need to be really, really sure about PI to take on that debt.

That said, Columbia's LRAP is light-years ahead of Michigan's.