Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein) Forum

[Npret]

I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?

Actually I feel outside of this forum 0Ls and their families do little research and assume Harvard is the best because of status and prestige. It's this weird groupthink not based on facts of biglaw hiring. They also see the biglaw salary and assume that repaying the debt will be simple. You can see 0Ls here who post their planned biglaw budget for debt repayment before they even start school. Generally they don't want to hear that they may be unrealistic.

Some people just want to say they went to Harvard and maybe join the Harvard Club. There's nothing wrong with that but it may skew the numbers of people who attend.


I don't agree that everyone who gets into Harvard can get a full scholarship at a T14. I don't know how many full ride scholarships the T14 offers but it has to be a small percentage of the Harvard class of almost 600 people in 2015. According to LST, 50% of Harvard class of 2015 paid full price.

OP has a fantastic outcome here.

[waldorf]

I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?

Actually I feel outside of this forum 0Ls and their families do little research and assume Harvard is the best because of status and prestige. It's this weird groupthink not based on facts of biglaw hiring. They also see the biglaw salary and assume that repaying the debt will be simple. You can see 0Ls here who post their planned biglaw budget for debt repayment before they even start school. Generally they don't want to hear that they may be unrealistic.

This. A lot of people may not have taken out any loans for undergrad, due to parental help and/or scholarships, and they simply do not realize what it takes to pay those loans back. They think "Oh, I'll just live like I'm making 50k a year, but I'm really making 180k, so paying off these loans will be no problem!". People really need to educate themselves and be realistic about what it is like to pay back six figure debt.

[wheathins]

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[cavalier1138]

Well, we got a fair way in without some idiot with rich parents screaming about prestige. It was a good run, folks.

[lymenheimer]

I don't know if folks here are deliberately trying to screw you, but Harvard/Columbia over NYU no doubt.

Don't easily actually believe what others say. Think about their ulterior motives.

Why the hell would these anonymous Internet users actually care about you and your interests? They don't even know you! They don't give a s*** about you, just as you don't give a s*** about them.

They want you to choose NYU over Harvard because that will make them feel BETTER.

Or may be it will open up a spot for them.

Don't you get it? Why the F would anyone choose NYU over Harvard? Are you out of your f***** mind? Even if NYU threw money at you, go for Harvard/Columbia.

Prestige is everything bro. Screw the employment/clerkship statistics.

You worked your ass off precisely for this.

Appearnce is everything.

Nobody will actually care that much about your story. Lower your expectations of people's generosity. They will just see NYU on your CV and think oh this kid was only good enough to get into NYU (even if you list the scholarship).

People simply don't have the time to get to know you. Just as your subconscious motivation behind this post is the need for approval/recognition/validation from peers, so people will judge you that quick. They need to "size you up" ASAP. And in those 5 seconds, Harvard triumphs over NYU.

A rather simplistic and very cynical view of human nature? This country chose Trump as president. Always remember that. Appearance is everything.

Choose Harvard.

(Is a 0L who didnt get into H)

[34iplaw]

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[jbagelboy]

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This post is embarassing and makes you look stupid; you probably should delete (and if you do, I'll edit it out)

[wheathins]

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[jbagelboy]

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As a practicing attorney with significantly more experience than you in all relevant circles, I guarantee you are wrong. In broad strokes of course signaling matters, but not in these microscopic gradations. Chill out

[wheathins]

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[Alexandros]

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[wheathins]

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[Rigo]

Choose Harvard.

I'd delete this post if I were you based on some other concern you had about posts here impacting employment opportunity. I think that is a bit of an overblown worry to have, but, if you view it as a concern, you should delete this post.

It will come across as a lack of decision-making ability and understanding of basic financial concepts, or, possibly, just as a spoiled kid that doesn't need a job. The reality is that $250k additional in debt costs a lot more than $250k. Beyond strict financial matters, the reality of being chained in golden handcuffs (without the gold even) before even starting your legal career is serious.

I come from a fairly well-off background where kids are generally quite fortunate and few kids have to pay for their undergrad or graduate studies, and people would look at you confused as hell if you said something like this.

edit: like the below poster, I'll edit this post out as well.

Ok deleted the post. Please stop with the hate mails and death threats. I think you guys may have assumed i myself have a prestigious degree and was flaunting it.

It's the opposite. I went to no-name undergrad and it sucks. It's unfair but what can i do except try my best to get a fancy degree so people won't think i'm a retard, like most people do.

Wait did I miss death threats or is this wild Asperger delusion? Stop covering up THE TRUTH with edits, people!

[dm1683]

Choose Harvard.

I'd delete this post if I were you based on some other concern you had about posts here impacting employment opportunity. I think that is a bit of an overblown worry to have, but, if you view it as a concern, you should delete this post.

It will come across as a lack of decision-making ability and understanding of basic financial concepts, or, possibly, just as a spoiled kid that doesn't need a job. The reality is that $250k additional in debt costs a lot more than $250k. Beyond strict financial matters, the reality of being chained in golden handcuffs (without the gold even) before even starting your legal career is serious.

I come from a fairly well-off background where kids are generally quite fortunate and few kids have to pay for their undergrad or graduate studies, and people would look at you confused as hell if you said something like this.

edit: like the below poster, I'll edit this post out as well.

Ok deleted the post. Please stop with the hate mails and death threats. I think you guys may have assumed i myself have a prestigious degree and was flaunting it.

It's the opposite. I went to no-name undergrad and it sucks. It's unfair but what can i do except try my best to get a fancy degree so people won't think i'm a retard, like most people do.

Wait did I miss death threats or is this wild Asperger delusion? Stop covering up THE TRUTH with edits, people!

Yeah this person (who am I kidding, it's a guy) seems seriously unstable... although JBB did promise to take down the quotes and didn't do it.

Anyway, what I wouldn't give to have this problem a year from now.

[T3TON]

I think this thread is for the most part giving you the right advice (NYU with the Vandy) but I will play devil's advocate for a minute just to be sure it is not being too hasty. You mentioned that you want to clerk, and eventually get back to the judiciary. What do you mean by this, and how serious are you about it? Clerkships and judicial appointment are two areas in which Harvard offers a tangible edge over Columbia and NYU. I don't personally think that edge is worth 200,000 dollars. But if you do not think your life would be complete without an Article III appointment there are crazier ideas than going to Harvard in this situation.

[Hennessy]

Hey OP think about it this way:

With NYU at 20k debt, your biglaw salary paychecks will only be about $200 deducted towards student loans. You'll still have $9,000 per month to spend on whatever you like; a Lexus, a house, a boat, a houseboat, etc.

With the other two options, try a couple thousand in losses.

Per month.

For 120 months.

Ten years of losing a third of your paycheck to the void.

[CPA-->JD]

What is the quantifiable difference in the probability of landing the big law job from NYU compared to the other 2? Also, from my understanding, not all big law jobs are created equal so does the ability to a "better" big law job come in to play?

[Dcc617]

Harvard is certainly not worth $240k more than NYU. You'd be crazy not to take the money, and I say that as a Harvard student.

[jbagelboy]

Choose Harvard.

I'd delete this post if I were you based on some other concern you had about posts here impacting employment opportunity. I think that is a bit of an overblown worry to have, but, if you view it as a concern, you should delete this post.

It will come across as a lack of decision-making ability and understanding of basic financial concepts, or, possibly, just as a spoiled kid that doesn't need a job. The reality is that $250k additional in debt costs a lot more than $250k. Beyond strict financial matters, the reality of being chained in golden handcuffs (without the gold even) before even starting your legal career is serious.

I come from a fairly well-off background where kids are generally quite fortunate and few kids have to pay for their undergrad or graduate studies, and people would look at you confused as hell if you said something like this.

edit: like the below poster, I'll edit this post out as well.

Ok deleted the post. Please stop with the hate mails and death threats. I think you guys may have assumed i myself have a prestigious degree and was flaunting it.

It's the opposite. I went to no-name undergrad and it sucks. It's unfair but what can i do except try my best to get a fancy degree so people won't think i'm a retard, like most people do.

Wait did I miss death threats or is this wild Asperger delusion? Stop covering up THE TRUTH with edits, people!

Yeah this person (who am I kidding, it's a guy) seems seriously unstable... although JBB did promise to take down the quotes and didn't do it.

Anyway, what I wouldn't give to have this problem a year from now.

I just saw that he deleted his posts and now I will do the same.

[Rigo]

I don't get the censorship here. He didn't say anything outing so who the f cares.

[elevin]

Thanks everyone! I suppose the one question remaining is what to do if I get into Yale. It'll be good for the clerkship goal, but I wonder if that is worth sticker price...

[thewhalefish]

Thanks everyone! I suppose the one question remaining is what to do if I get into Yale. It'll be good for the clerkship goal, but I wonder if that is worth sticker price...

That's a very good way to start literally all of that arguing over again. Lol. Congrats on a fantastic cycle! I'd personally go to Harvard, but I'm a PI gunner so I'm not interested in biglaw or anything like that.

Best of luck.

[LoganCouture]

Thanks everyone! I suppose the one question remaining is what to do if I get into Yale. It'll be good for the clerkship goal, but I wonder if that is worth sticker price...

IMO NYU with a full ride >>>>>>>> any of HYS at sticker for NY biglaw + clerkship goals. Nothing about attending Y would make the ~300k more fun to pay back.

Disclaimer: just a 2L.

[shadowfax]

NYC is the easy choice. Columbia is a better choice (maybe not if the only thing you ever ever want is NYC big law) Harvard is the hardest but best choice. Interesting that people think Yale would be worth skipping the named scholly but Harvard and Stanford aren't.

[cavalier1138]

NYC is the easy choice. Columbia is a better choice (maybe not if the only thing you ever ever want is NYC big law) Harvard is the hardest but best choice. Interesting that people think Yale would be worth skipping the named scholly but Harvard and Stanford aren't.

I like that you think there's such a qualitative difference between NYU and Columbia that it's worth almost $100,000. You're valuing "prestige" far too highly, especially given the OP's stated goals. Or you're just trolling.