Suffolk University vs. New England Law Forum

[Future Ex-Engineer]

Some posters get very emotional. I understand as these schools have very poor job placement. But the OP is a working adult & has the right to attend law school. OP doesn't need a job, just a degree for advancement within the federal government. I know many who did this with part-time online MBAs from for profit schools.

I only know one person who graduated New England Law School. She finished several years ago, sat for the bar in a UBE jurisdiction, passed for all 13 jurisdictions on her first try (now it's 27) & went to work as an attorney for a high tech company at a respectable salary. Still there. Her LSAT was in the very low 150s. Just one example.

This forum tends to be pessimistic but I've got to agree with Cavalier and company for once this is very misleading and destructive advice, especially if OP doesn't have full unconditional scholarships(and I'm going to guess they don't). No one should be making a decision to go to a TTT or TTTT based on anecdotal stories of people doing well, only if they get a boatload of money should it even be on the table. Even there your anecdotal story obscures important info like what you consider a "reasonable salary",how much debt she went into and what percentage of the class she was in to receive that outcome .

OP, the fact that said poster is promoting online MBA's from for profit schools should tell you all you need to know about this poster's advice!

Who are you and what'd you do with ferrisjso?

[Npret]

Have you guys never heard of someone who just needs a credential to be promoted in their current career path? Usually those people go part time and get some tuition reimbursement from their employer. There are people that have stable and steady jobs that just need a credential to move ahead.

If OP is one of these people who has a job but needs a JD to move up in that career, then I see no reason for OP to not go to a local school that will allow them to keep their job.

[cavalier1138]

Have you guys never heard of someone who just needs a credential to be promoted in their current career path? Usually those people go part time and get some tuition reimbursement from their employer. There are people that have stable and steady jobs that just need a credential to move ahead.

If OP is one of these people who has a job but needs a JD to move up in that career, then I see no reason for OP to not go to a local school that will allow them to keep their job.

Name a career path where a JD does that.

I can see that an MBA could plausibly result in that kind of promotion/salary bump, but a JD is a specialized, professional degree. Would you tell someone to get a nursing degree to move up in their career?

[Npret]

Have you guys never heard of someone who just needs a credential to be promoted in their current career path? Usually those people go part time and get some tuition reimbursement from their employer. There are people that have stable and steady jobs that just need a credential to move ahead.

If OP is one of these people who has a job but needs a JD to move up in that career, then I see no reason for OP to not go to a local school that will allow them to keep their job.

Name a career path where a JD does that.

I can see that an MBA could plausibly result in that kind of promotion/salary bump, but a JD is a specialized, professional degree. Would you tell someone to get a nursing degree to move up in their career?

Oh you are ridiculous.
You think because you can't come up with a job that one doesn't exist?
What about healthcare/hospital management (yes I know someone in Albany who did a JD to move up in their hospital management career, not an MBA), government contract management, insurance,intellectual property, land agents, etc. Do your own research.

I'm sure OP knows whether a JD will benefit them in their career, something you obviously don't.

[cavalier1138]

Oh you are ridiculous.
You think because you can't come up with a job that one doesn't exist?
What about healthcare/hospital management (yes I know someone in Albany who did a JD to move up in their hospital management career, not an MBA), government contract management, insurance,intellectual property, land agents, etc. Do your own research.

I'm sure OP knows whether a JD will benefit them in their career, something you obviously don't.

Bullshit. Just pure, unadulterated bullshit.

JDs are useful for legal careers. The idea that someone moved up in hospital management (not from hospital management to in-house for a hospital) is absurd. So your friend either didn't get that promotion in the last decade (JDs used to be a lot more useful), or you're flat-out lying. I don't really care which it is, because I don't want someone else reading this and thinking that a JD is going to be a great way to advance in their political/business/construction career.

[CanadianWolf]

Not promoting "for profit online MBA programs". Just wrote that I know several working folks who earned their degrees this way to get promoted at their current places of employment.
All are middle aged (above 40 years old) with no intention of seeking employment elsewhere. Also, all received reimbursement for required tuition, books & fees from their employer.

[CanadianWolf]

Several Fortune 500 (at least) companies offer free MBA degrees from for profit schools. Classes tend to be taught at the worksite. There are many working folks who seek advanced degrees to secure their current position or to advance within their own company. These degrees are paid for, or reimbursed in full, by the employer.

[BigZuck]

Oh you are ridiculous.
You think because you can't come up with a job that one doesn't exist?
What about healthcare/hospital management (yes I know someone in Albany who did a JD to move up in their hospital management career, not an MBA), government contract management, insurance,intellectual property, land agents, etc. Do your own research.

I'm sure OP knows whether a JD will benefit them in their career, something you obviously don't.

Bullshit. Just pure, unadulterated bullshit.

JDs are useful for legal careers. The idea that someone moved up in hospital management (not from hospital management to in-house for a hospital) is absurd. So your friend either didn't get that promotion in the last decade (JDs used to be a lot more useful), or you're flat-out lying. I don't really care which it is, because I don't want someone else reading this and thinking that a JD is going to be a great way to advance in their political/business/construction career.

Uh dude there really are jobs that are like "Yo you got a bach degree you get X per year, you got an advanced degree you get X+7K per year." Sometimes just having any sort of higher degree (yes, including JDs from bad law schools) can put you on a different salary/career trajectory. I know of this happening for public school teachers, I'm sure it happens for other jobs.

Dial it back a few notches.

(I have no idea if that is the OPs situation and I generally agree that it's dumb to do a JD for a general "opening up of career doors" of course)

[Npret]

Oh you are ridiculous.
You think because you can't come up with a job that one doesn't exist?
What about healthcare/hospital management (yes I know someone in Albany who did a JD to move up in their hospital management career, not an MBA), government contract management, insurance,intellectual property, land agents, etc. Do your own research.

I'm sure OP knows whether a JD will benefit them in their career, something you obviously don't.

Bullshit. Just pure, unadulterated bullshit.

JDs are useful for legal careers. The idea that someone moved up in hospital management (not from hospital management to in-house for a hospital) is absurd. So your friend either didn't get that promotion in the last decade (JDs used to be a lot more useful), or you're flat-out lying. I don't really care which it is, because I don't want someone else reading this and thinking that a JD is going to be a great way to advance in their political/business/construction career.

You really have no clue what you are talking about. These are people who already have solid corporate jobs that get promoted at their same company. This is quite common. I'm sorry if you've never had a job at a corporation or a government job that offers these benefits.

I'm surprised you find it so impossible that in the midst of massive healthcare change a respected person in hospital management would be asked to get a JD. And that it would be partially paid for by the corporation. And that they would then get a promotion. But, you can believe it isn't true if it makes you happy.

Who do you think goes to all these part time JD programs at places like Georgetown and GW? Why do you think they are going?

I think the argument you are making is that a JD isn't a versatile degree and won't help in other fields generally. But that is not the situation here at all. At least that is what Im guessing OP is doing. Im sure OP won't return to this thread.

[cavalier1138]

Oh you are ridiculous.
You think because you can't come up with a job that one doesn't exist?
What about healthcare/hospital management (yes I know someone in Albany who did a JD to move up in their hospital management career, not an MBA), government contract management, insurance,intellectual property, land agents, etc. Do your own research.

I'm sure OP knows whether a JD will benefit them in their career, something you obviously don't.

Bullshit. Just pure, unadulterated bullshit.

JDs are useful for legal careers. The idea that someone moved up in hospital management (not from hospital management to in-house for a hospital) is absurd. So your friend either didn't get that promotion in the last decade (JDs used to be a lot more useful), or you're flat-out lying. I don't really care which it is, because I don't want someone else reading this and thinking that a JD is going to be a great way to advance in their political/business/construction career.

Uh dude there really are jobs that are like "Yo you got a bach degree you get X per year, you got an advanced degree you get X+7K per year." Sometimes just having any sort of higher degree (yes, including JDs from bad law schools) can put you on a different salary/career trajectory. I know of this happening for public school teachers, I'm sure it happens for other jobs.

Dial it back a few notches.

(I have no idea if that is the OPs situation and I generally agree that it's dumb to do a JD for a general "opening up of career doors" of course)

I'm aware of those programs, and I still think it's idiotic to treat a JD as a degree that does even that. An "advanced degree" comes cheaper than $250k. The OP is looking at a financially ruinous decision, and I see no point in trying to hedge or sugarcoat this. There are people giving shitty, life-destroying advice in this thread, on a level that just isn't seen elsewhere on the site.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

OP's is free to make his/her own decision. Lots of students attend, graduate & pass a state bar from these schools.

I think you're forgetting one thing...employment?

[CanadianWolf]

Sure, but I did note that above. Also, the OP is currently employed with the federal government &, I assume, wants to stay but seeking career advancement with current employer.

[Ferrisjso]

Some posters get very emotional. I understand as these schools have very poor job placement. But the OP is a working adult & has the right to attend law school. OP doesn't need a job, just a degree for advancement within the federal government. I know many who did this with part-time online MBAs from for profit schools.

I only know one person who graduated New England Law School. She finished several years ago, sat for the bar in a UBE jurisdiction, passed for all 13 jurisdictions on her first try (now it's 27) & went to work as an attorney for a high tech company at a respectable salary. Still there. Her LSAT was in the very low 150s. Just one example.

This forum tends to be pessimistic but I've got to agree with Cavalier and company for once this is very misleading and destructive advice, especially if OP doesn't have full unconditional scholarships(and I'm going to guess they don't). No one should be making a decision to go to a TTT or TTTT based on anecdotal stories of people doing well, only if they get a boatload of money should it even be on the table. Even there your anecdotal story obscures important info like what you consider a "reasonable salary",how much debt she went into and what percentage of the class she was in to receive that outcome .

OP, the fact that said poster is promoting online MBA's from for profit schools should tell you all you need to know about this poster's advice!

Who are you and what'd you do with ferrisjso?

Lmao. He's gone and not coming back;) Seriously though, I've always said I feel the concerns of the retake chorus on TLS are valid I think they are taking it way to far. Telling someone who is apparently choosing between 2 TTTT's(probably at sticker or close to it) is a pretty obvious, NOOOO moment! Cant believe someone is promoting online MBA degrees which is the most obvious and well known academic scam at this point. I don't think it's insane for someone who wants to work in Boston to go to Suffolk on the condition they have a full scholly with no stips but it's pretty obvious that's not the case here if the only other choice is New England(which implies the OP couldn't have been admitted to Northeastern which means there's no way they got a full scholly from Suffolk). New England is just one of those no no no schools, it's probably the worst ABA school in New England(that non accredited school in Andover might actually be better). New England did send me the nicest law school brochure I've ever gotten though:)(OP, that DOES NOT mean you should attend, it actually means the opposite because a school willing to spend so much money on making their marketing material look like it comes from the Sistine Chapel probably NEEDS to spend that much money to attract students to apply and attend).

[blueapple]

Sure, but I did note that above. Also, the OP is currently employed with the federal government &, I assume, wants to stay but seeking career advancement with current employer.

I just don't understand why you think OP is right in thinking this is a likelihood or even a possibility. The federal government doesn't just let you slide into an attorney position once you get your JD just because you already work there.

[Johann]

im assuming based on your other posts:
1) you are going part time
2) you work for fed govt and will continue working for fed govt
3) you are in the position of unlocking guaranteed benefits just by getting the promotion (like a salary raise or promotion)

if all 3 are right, go to whichever is cheaper or in the location you prefer. theres no diff. if my assumptions are not the case (especially if #2 is not the case), dont go to law school. many attorneys are busting their ass trying to get intot he govt. i wouldnt voluntarily leave it with hopes of coming back.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Sure, but I did note that above. Also, the OP is currently employed with the federal government &, I assume, wants to stay but seeking career advancement with current employer.

I just don't understand why you think OP is right in thinking this is a likelihood or even a possibility. The federal government doesn't just let you slide into an attorney position once you get your JD just because you already work there.

No one said the OP expected to work as an atty. Zuck is right (and others), there are definitely jobs where getting an advanced degree - ticking a box - gets advancement. If that describes the OP, and they're interested in law, that's their decision. I wouldn't spend a lot of money of this, if it at all possible, and would definitely take Suffolk over NE - not claiming it's a great school, but there are lots of Suffolk alums in the Boston area.

Bullshit. Just pure, unadulterated bullshit.

JDs are useful for legal careers. The idea that someone moved up in hospital management (not from hospital management to in-house for a hospital) is absurd. So your friend either didn't get that promotion in the last decade (JDs used to be a lot more useful), or you're flat-out lying. I don't really care which it is, because I don't want someone else reading this and thinking that a JD is going to be a great way to advance in their political/business/construction career.

Dude, you do need to chill. When people here talk about using a JD to get non-legal jobs they're almost invariably talking about using the JD to break into some other field, which is a very bad idea. But if someone's already working in a given field and has done the calculus that a JD will be useful in their own, particular situation, that's another situation. And Npret is a good dude who gives helpful advice.

[cavalier1138]

Dude, you do need to chill. When people here talk about using a JD to get non-legal jobs they're almost invariably talking about using the JD to break into some other field, which is a very bad idea. But if someone's already working in a given field and has done the calculus that a JD will be useful in their own, particular situation, that's another situation. And Npret is a good dude who gives helpful advice.

I'm sure he is. But even accepting that, once in a blue moon, a JD is not only helpful for advancement in a career but is the right choice for doing so, that is not the OP's situation. This is the OP's situation. The OP does not work in a government office where a JD guarantees them advancement, a higher salary, or any other benefits. Continuing to explain that there are situations where somebody might occasionally be able to use their JD for non-legal advancement is only feeding the OP's delusions, not helping them.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Sure, but if it's not the OP's situation say that, don't tell someone they're talking bullshit.

[blueapple]

No one said the OP expected to work as an atty.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p9687968

Not looking to work for a big firm, and I realize my stats aren't elite but I want to be an attorney nonetheless. I'm already employed by the federal government so I wouldn't mind working my way up that ladder in my sector of the government or doing public interest work. A JD gives you numerous career options so I don't think I should not attend law school due to an average LSAT score or fear of not finding work; it's what I want to do so I'm pursuing it.

It sounded to me like OP wants to be an attorney. I wasn't disagreeing that there are situations where an advanced degree ticks a box leading to advancement, but I don't think that's OP's situation. Maybe OP didn't really mean he wants to be an attorney and meant he just wanted a law degree, but that wasn't my takeaway.

[A. Nony Mouse]

No one said the OP expected to work as an atty.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p9687968

Not looking to work for a big firm, and I realize my stats aren't elite but I want to be an attorney nonetheless. I'm already employed by the federal government so I wouldn't mind working my way up that ladder in my sector of the government or doing public interest work. A JD gives you numerous career options so I don't think I should not attend law school due to an average LSAT score or fear of not finding work; it's what I want to do so I'm pursuing it.

It sounded to me like OP wants to be an attorney. I wasn't disagreeing that there are situations where an advanced degree ticks a box leading to advancement, but I don't think that's OP's situation. Maybe OP didn't really mean he wants to be an attorney and meant he just wanted a law degree, but that wasn't my takeaway.

No, you're right, that seems to be what he's saying. My bad.

[BigZuck]

No one said the OP expected to work as an atty.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p9687968

Not looking to work for a big firm, and I realize my stats aren't elite but I want to be an attorney nonetheless. I'm already employed by the federal government so I wouldn't mind working my way up that ladder in my sector of the government or doing public interest work. A JD gives you numerous career options so I don't think I should not attend law school due to an average LSAT score or fear of not finding work; it's what I want to do so I'm pursuing it.

It sounded to me like OP wants to be an attorney. I wasn't disagreeing that there are situations where an advanced degree ticks a box leading to advancement, but I don't think that's OP's situation. Maybe OP didn't really mean he wants to be an attorney and meant he just wanted a law degree, but that wasn't my takeaway.

No, you're right, that seems to be what he's saying. My bad.

It seemed like people were responding to multiple threads in this thread. I didn't know what was going on.

Whatever, blame Canada I guess.

[davidtothej05]

I went to Suffolk at part-time at night and had three job offers J.D. job offers within weeks of graduation. My grades were not remarkable, and I graduated in the middle of my class. I also worked as a paralegal full time for a firm in Boston during school. This is pretty typical of students in the evening division. If you have a resume independent from law school, and you are looking to work in Boston, Suffolk will probably serve you better than NEL because there are a ton of Suffolk alum in Boston who did the same thing.

That said, I do not believe that this is typical for students attending Suffolk full-time. If you are not working, and not attending part-time, there are much better choices in Boston and New England for your money.