. Forum

[Ferrisjso]

Yale, Harvard, Stanford,CUNY, NCC or University of District of Columbia.

Just wow. You need a disclaimer that follows you around this forum. Maybe something along the lines of:

*this advice should carry no weight. I approach life and law school like a drunk three year old playing with a kitchen knife*

Ferrisjso is already well-known on this forum for consistently giving shockingly terrible, reckless, and harmful advice to other users. Literally everything he says should be completely ignored.

The University of District of Columbia has an LST employment score of 22% and he would pay sticker price to attend the school. What's worse is that he's an underachieving 0L who is needlessly argumentative and defensive towards everyone about his views.

My logic was based on the super cheap in state tuition(out of state no, I guess I should have clarified on that, so in that case my bad) This aggression is exactly why so few people who don't subscribe to endless retaking give advice on this forum. Why can't we just have a thread without throwing around names and derogatory statements? I wouldn't pay sticker to the place, I'm just saying for people in DC it could make sense.

[Ferrisjso]

Yale, Harvard, Stanford,CUNY, NCC or University of District of Columbia.

Just wow. You need a disclaimer that follows you around this forum. Maybe something along the lines of:

*this advice should carry no weight. I approach life and law school like a drunk three year old playing with a kitchen knife*

The point I was trying to make is the best 3 schools are worth paying sticker for because they have such great opportunities/debt repayment options and the other ones are super affordable. I fail to see how this generates controversy at all.

Super affordable (for law school) doesn't mean something is a good financial investment.

Fair enough but it's not like I'm saying one should pay sticker to a 40 or 50k a year T2,T3 or T4 I'm simply pointing out bargains that could make sense to people at sticker. CUNY, NCC and UCD all are the schools I instantly think of when I think of sub 20k a year law school. The sticker number could make sense at these places, even though it's clear most on here disagree.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yale, Harvard, Stanford,CUNY, NCC or University of District of Columbia.

Just wow. You need a disclaimer that follows you around this forum. Maybe something along the lines of:

*this advice should carry no weight. I approach life and law school like a drunk three year old playing with a kitchen knife*

The point I was trying to make is the best 3 schools are worth paying sticker for because they have such great opportunities/debt repayment options and the other ones are super affordable. I fail to see how this generates controversy at all.

Super affordable (for law school) doesn't mean something is a good financial investment.

Fair enough but it's not like I'm saying one should pay sticker to a 40 or 50k a year T2,T3 or T4 I'm simply pointing out bargains that could make sense to people at sticker. CUNY, NCC and UCD all are the schools I instantly think of when I think of sub 20k a year law school. The sticker number could make sense at these places, even though it's clear most on here disagree.

Sub-20k a year is still not a good investment if the school can't get you a job.

[mjb447]

Yale, Harvard, Stanford,CUNY, NCC or University of District of Columbia.

Just wow. You need a disclaimer that follows you around this forum. Maybe something along the lines of:

*this advice should carry no weight. I approach life and law school like a drunk three year old playing with a kitchen knife*

The point I was trying to make is the best 3 schools are worth paying sticker for because they have such great opportunities/debt repayment options and the other ones are super affordable. I fail to see how this generates controversy at all.

Super affordable (for law school) doesn't mean something is a good financial investment.

Fair enough but it's not like I'm saying one should pay sticker to a 40 or 50k a year T2,T3 or T4 I'm simply pointing out bargains that could make sense to people at sticker. CUNY, NCC and UCD all are the schools I instantly think of when I think of sub 20k a year law school. The sticker number could make sense at these places, even though it's clear most on here disagree.

Sub-20k a year is still not a good investment if the school can't get you a job.

"I'll sell you this piece of paper for $20k a year for three years. Other people charge more for a similar piece of paper. My offer is therefore a good deal."

[cavalier1138]

Fair enough but it's not like I'm saying one should pay sticker to a 40 or 50k a year T2,T3 or T4 I'm simply pointing out bargains that could make sense to people at sticker. CUNY, NCC and UCD all are the schools I instantly think of when I think of sub 20k a year law school. The sticker number could make sense at these places, even though it's clear most on here disagree.

Sticker price at all those schools will still leave you in six figures of debt after you account for cost of living. So what makes sense about that when you factor in the job outcomes of those schools?

[canafsa]

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[Ferrisjso]

I'm somewhat surprised by the poll outcome. Given how little money the T3 offers, would so few of you really consider going to these schools? The matriculation to acceptance ratios seem to contradict the data.

These forums are not representative of the general law applicant/student populations in any way shape or form. Tends to be far more pessimistic. Even so I think if they had an offer in hand from these three quite a few of these people would be at least tempted lol.

[Ferrisjso]

Fair enough but it's not like I'm saying one should pay sticker to a 40 or 50k a year T2,T3 or T4 I'm simply pointing out bargains that could make sense to people at sticker. CUNY, NCC and UCD all are the schools I instantly think of when I think of sub 20k a year law school. The sticker number could make sense at these places, even though it's clear most on here disagree.

Sticker price at all those schools will still leave you in six figures of debt after you account for cost of living. So what makes sense about that when you factor in the job outcomes of those schools?

Fair enough. If one is commuting though these are both fine cheap options(If I went to CUNY at sticker I'd be around 60k, not 100k). The question was when does begin to make sense and at that price it starts to make sense in general even if these schools aren't great. Also sad how people just see education as paying for a job and not paying for the education and the job. A degree without employment/good employment isn't worth $0(even if it clearly isn't worth sticker) if you actually learn the content(one of the reasons the opportunity cost argument pisses me off so much) but of course debt changes that equation.

[LikelyThrowaway]

I'm somewhat surprised by the poll outcome. Given how little money the T3 offers, would so few of you really consider going to these schools? The matriculation to acceptance ratios seem to contradict the data.

It looks to me like 75% of poll respondents indicated they would consider going to at least one school at sticker. 25% of people not wanting to take on a quarter million dollars of debt for any law school doesn't strike me as particularly surprising.

[canafsa]

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[LikelyThrowaway]

I'm somewhat surprised by the poll outcome. Given how little money the T3 offers, would so few of you really consider going to these schools? The matriculation to acceptance ratios seem to contradict the data.

It looks to me like 75% of poll respondents indicated they would consider going to at least one school at sticker. 25% of people not wanting to take on a quarter million dollars of debt for any law school doesn't strike me as particularly surprising.

Right, this is true. Still more than I expected though. I've never heard of anyone turning down Yale for the price, but I suppose it must happen.

Yeah I'd bet a good chunk of that 25% wouldn't really say no to Yale if they were actually given the chance. I believe Yale admitted like 240 people in their most recent class and a little over 200 people matriculated, so by that metric only one sixth of people turned down Yale. Plus, among those 40ish people who did go elsewhere, some of 'em probably went and paid sticker at Harvard or Stanford.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Fair enough but it's not like I'm saying one should pay sticker to a 40 or 50k a year T2,T3 or T4 I'm simply pointing out bargains that could make sense to people at sticker. CUNY, NCC and UCD all are the schools I instantly think of when I think of sub 20k a year law school. The sticker number could make sense at these places, even though it's clear most on here disagree.

Sticker price at all those schools will still leave you in six figures of debt after you account for cost of living. So what makes sense about that when you factor in the job outcomes of those schools?

Fair enough. If one is commuting though these are both fine cheap options(If I went to CUNY at sticker I'd be around 60k, not 100k). The question was when does begin to make sense and at that price it starts to make sense in general even if these schools aren't great. Also sad how people just see education as paying for a job and not paying for the education and the job. A degree without employment/good employment isn't worth $0(even if it clearly isn't worth sticker) if you actually learn the content(one of the reasons the opportunity cost argument pisses me off so much) but of course debt changes that equation.

I'm with you on some kinds of education but law isn't a "learn for the love of learning" degree. It's a professional education that provides a license to enter a profession. It's a means to an end (and I am huge proponent of learning for the sake of learning. You just don't do that in the vast majority of law schools, unless you go in with a very specific agenda and make your own way that largely runs counter to what law school is designed to do.)

[mjb447]

Also sad how people just see education as paying for a job and not paying for the education and the job. A degree without employment/good employment isn't worth $0(even if it clearly isn't worth sticker) if you actually learn the content(one of the reasons the opportunity cost argument pisses me off so much) but of course debt changes that equation.

The opportunity cost argument can "piss you off," but that doesn't make it wrong. A legal education is worthless if it doesn't help you get a job. You have no context for claiming otherwise. Please stop.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm somewhat surprised by the poll outcome. Given how little money the T3 offers, would so few of you really consider going to these schools? The matriculation to acceptance ratios seem to contradict the data.

It looks to me like 75% of poll respondents indicated they would consider going to at least one school at sticker. 25% of people not wanting to take on a quarter million dollars of debt for any law school doesn't strike me as particularly surprising.

Right, this is true. Still more than I expected though. I've never heard of anyone turning down Yale for the price, but I suppose it must happen.

There are actually a lot of rich kids at top schools.

[Ferrisjso]

Also sad how people just see education as paying for a job and not paying for the education and the job. A degree without employment/good employment isn't worth $0(even if it clearly isn't worth sticker) if you actually learn the content(one of the reasons the opportunity cost argument pisses me off so much) but of course debt changes that equation.

The opportunity cost argument can "piss you off," but that doesn't make it wrong. A legal education is worthless if it doesn't help you get a job. You have no context for claiming otherwise. Please stop.

Well an education isn't worthless without a job(unless you consider learning and the experience worthless), how much it's worth is a matter of debate of course. People should always make happiness their number one priority and do what they like, giving up an opportunity you don't necessarily want shouldn't be used as a determent for making another decision. Of course employment prospects are important and practically speaking are the most important part of a legal education but it's important to note a JD isn't worthless without a job as you still got a legal education and a three year experience for that money. If you have to much debt of course that's a problem and that is the core of many threads including this one "how much debt is to much".

[A. Nony Mouse]

doing what I like all the time would leave me fat and unemployed.

[Ferrisjso]

doing what I like all the time would leave me fat and unemployed.

If you like that(and assuming you can afford to do that without going homeless) what exactly is wrong with that?

[mjb447]

Also sad how people just see education as paying for a job and not paying for the education and the job. A degree without employment/good employment isn't worth $0(even if it clearly isn't worth sticker) if you actually learn the content(one of the reasons the opportunity cost argument pisses me off so much) but of course debt changes that equation.

The opportunity cost argument can "piss you off," but that doesn't make it wrong. A legal education is worthless if it doesn't help you get a job. You have no context for claiming otherwise. Please stop.

Well an education isn't worthless without a job(unless you consider learning and the experience worthless), how much it's worth is a matter of debate of course. People should always make happiness their number one priority and do what they like.

See Nony's post above. I'm a proponent of the liberal arts and the humanities and becoming a well rounded citizen and all that, but a law degree (i.e. a JD) in particular is only worthwhile if it gets you a job. Some of my profs compared law school to trucking school or a forklift driver certification course - it's an irrational decision unless it's for your job.

[A. Nony Mouse]

doing what I like all the time would leave me fat and unemployed.

If you like that(and assuming you can afford to do that without going homeless) what exactly is wrong with that?

That's not how I want to live my life. The things I like aren't always good for me.