Berkeley ($) vs UC Davis ($$$) Forum

[lesalexander]

Total COA UC Davis:

63K

Total COA UC Berkeley:

210K

Who is paying the cost of living portion of COA? Your spouse or you (via loans)

.

[pmcd88]

210k seems high - but then I saw that you're just "from" fresno and not "in" fresno. Maybe you should move back to Fresno for a few months while you retake so you can cop the in-state discount.

My quick and dirty calculations: *in-state tuition of 49k, less your 22k scholly, spread over 3 years is like 90k after fees/interest. With the wife chipping in but not covering living expenses, you're looking at 120-150k debt.

Also:
1) Still need your GPA/LSAT
2) Not kidding about a sizable chance you won't be working in civil rights

Yes 120-150k for just tuition, but total should be about 210k

LSAT is below 25th at Berkleley, GPA above 75th

If you can get your LSAT up to their 50th you'll be looking at a Bunch more scholarship money. Why not do what was mentioned earlier? Take some time off to regain that CA residency while retaking the LSAT then go to Berkley with minimal debt.

You are in a great position here! Don't waste it!

Also, I apologize for coming off "snarky" it's been a long morning at work.

⬆This.
Also because you want to do public interest type things if you decide to go for it this cycle check out lrap for both schools:

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/admissions ... e-program/

https://law.ucdavis.edu/financial-aid/lrap/

[MrMustache]

Berkeley without hesitation and I'm extremely debt adverse.

Ok, I guess my main concern is whether I will find work in civil rights law/human rights law that pays well enough out of school. I am unwilling to work in biglaw because the hours are unfeasible considering my familial situation.

UC Berkeley. Good public service jobs are ridiculously competitive. If you are going to do public interest work anyway, you'll just do the IBR+ 10 year public service loan forgiveness route regardless of the debt incurred. You'll also get to live in the Bay instead of Davis.

[cavalier1138]

I'm still stuck on the part where you want to live in Fresno and do civil rights work. Are you under the impression that such jobs exist in Fresno?

But as mentioned, retake to get more money from Berkeley, because Davis isn't able to give you the same job opportunities.

[Rigo]

I'm still stuck on the part where you want to live in Fresno and do civil rights work. Are you under the impression that such jobs exist in Fresno?

Yeah this is a big disconnect. All I can think of is maybe farm workers' rights stuff?
But please expand on what career you're envisioning, OP.

[SamuelDanforth]

I'm still stuck on the part where you want to live in Fresno and do civil rights work. Are you under the impression that such jobs exist in Fresno?

Yeah this is a big disconnect. All I can think of is maybe farm workers' rights stuff?
But please expand on what career you're envisioning, OP.

.

[dogday793]

210k seems high - but then I saw that you're just "from" fresno and not "in" fresno. Maybe you should move back to Fresno for a few months while you retake so you can cop the in-state discount.

My quick and dirty calculations: *in-state tuition of 49k, less your 22k scholly, spread over 3 years is like 90k after fees/interest. With the wife chipping in but not covering living expenses, you're looking at 120-150k debt.

Also:
1) Still need your GPA/LSAT
2) Not kidding about a sizable chance you won't be working in civil rights

Yes 120-150k for just tuition, but total should be about 210k

LSAT is below 25th at Berkleley, GPA above 75th

If you can get your LSAT up to their 50th you'll be looking at a Bunch more scholarship money. Why not do what was mentioned earlier? Take some time off to regain that CA residency while retaking the LSAT then go to Berkley with minimal debt.

You are in a great position here! Don't waste it!

Also, I apologize for coming off "snarky" it's been a long morning at work.

While that could happen, I will say I was well above 75th for both GPA and LSAT and I received nothing from Berkeley.

[lesalexander]

I'm still stuck on the part where you want to live in Fresno and do civil rights work. Are you under the impression that such jobs exist in Fresno?

Yeah this is a big disconnect. All I can think of is maybe farm workers' rights stuff?
But please expand on what career you're envisioning, OP.

I'm from the greater Fresno area, and to my knowledge there aren't even those positions in Fresno. "Farm workers rights" litigation is usually run out of Sac Town or SLO, to the degree that it exists. Even the bigger legal aid organizations (CRLA, etc) have at most one attorney in Fresno. There are certainly no "human rights" jobs that I've ever encountered, and the civil rights type work is confined to either the Eastern District's Attorneys General office, or Fresno's outpost of McCormick, Barstow. The later is probably the "best" option, although there are only about five people doing that kind of work in the office. Fresno probably isn't a terrible option if you have ties, aren't paying tuition, and don't mind the area, but I certainly wouldn't have it as my target market for sexy legal aid work.

I actually wouldn't mind returning to Fresno to work with a McCormick Barstow type firm temporarily to get acquainted with different law fields. I myself would prefer to return to Fresno and do Immigration Law given that it has overlaps with human rights. After a while, I would like to leave Fresno and venture into bigger non-profit types (either civil rights or international human rights). With all this in mind, which school would help with the most flexibility?

[lesalexander]

210k seems high - but then I saw that you're just "from" fresno and not "in" fresno. Maybe you should move back to Fresno for a few months while you retake so you can cop the in-state discount.

My quick and dirty calculations: *in-state tuition of 49k, less your 22k scholly, spread over 3 years is like 90k after fees/interest. With the wife chipping in but not covering living expenses, you're looking at 120-150k debt.

Also:
1) Still need your GPA/LSAT
2) Not kidding about a sizable chance you won't be working in civil rights

Yes 120-150k for just tuition, but total should be about 210k

LSAT is below 25th at Berkleley, GPA above 75th

If you can get your LSAT up to their 50th you'll be looking at a Bunch more scholarship money. Why not do what was mentioned earlier? Take some time off to regain that CA residency while retaking the LSAT then go to Berkley with minimal debt.

You are in a great position here! Don't waste it!

Also, I apologize for coming off "snarky" it's been a long morning at work.

⬆This.
Also because you want to do public interest type things if you decide to go for it this cycle check out lrap for both schools:

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/admissions ... e-program/

https://law.ucdavis.edu/financial-aid/lrap/

I wish I could do LRAP! But one of the conditions is that my wife and I must make under 100,000 (together) to qualify. My wife and I might make 50 grand a piece so I wouldn't qualify.

[lesalexander]

1) GPA/LSAT
2) What happens if you're unable to find a job in "human rights" law? Are you ok with the alternatives that either school provides?
3) Show your work in calculating 56k COA.

Pretty sure those are yearly totals.

OP, 150k from Berkley is not a bad decision for someone who knows what they want. But with your goals that is simply too much debt. What is your GPA/LSAT?

And Davis should be out completely with your goals.

Hey buddy, just curious: why is Davis out with my goals? From my observations, public interest jobs are not as saturated as these big firm gigs. Also, I don't mind making 50 grand a year if I can do what I like. Would Davis somehow impact this negatively?

[lesalexander]

I JUST RE-EVALUATED MY NUMBERS.

If I go to UCB, I will be in a 67,000 governmental debt after interest builds for those three years. Interest will make that total go up 3,000 per year from there. I will borrow the other $60,000 I would need from family and friends to cover housing/etc. (TOTAL=127,000)

VERSUS UC Davis's $80,000 total debt for tuition/living.

[Goldchain]

I JUST RE-EVALUATED MY NUMBERS.

If I go to UCB, I will be in a 67,000 governmental debt after interest builds for those three years. Interest will make that total go up 3,000 per year from there. I will borrow the other $60,000 I would need from family and friends to cover housing/etc. (TOTAL=127,000)

VERSUS UC Davis's $80,000 total debt for tuition/living.

Still Berkeley... Easily

[Nachoo2019]

1) GPA/LSAT
2) What happens if you're unable to find a job in "human rights" law? Are you ok with the alternatives that either school provides?
3) Show your work in calculating 56k COA.

Pretty sure those are yearly totals.

OP, 150k from Berkley is not a bad decision for someone who knows what they want. But with your goals that is simply too much debt. What is your GPA/LSAT?

And Davis should be out completely with your goals.

Hey buddy, just curious: why is Davis out with my goals? From my observations, public interest jobs are not as saturated as these big firm gigs. Also, I don't mind making 50 grand a year if I can do what I like. Would Davis somehow impact this negatively?

I said that because originally your goals seemed to be more human rights/you mentioned international law and Davis just won't get you there. With more modest goals Davis would make sense.

You seem to be uncertain about what you want specifically and for that reason Davis should be out. Berkley will give you the flexibility you need to figure out what you want!

I am just an 0L so salt and grains and such

[Nachoo2019]

I JUST RE-EVALUATED MY NUMBERS.

If I go to UCB, I will be in a 67,000 governmental debt after interest builds for those three years. Interest will make that total go up 3,000 per year from there. I will borrow the other $60,000 I would need from family and friends to cover housing/etc. (TOTAL=127,000)

VERSUS UC Davis's $80,000 total debt for tuition/living.

Still Berkeley... Easily

If you had Davis with full tuition+living stipend(not sure if they even do this) then I may consider Davis in your situation. But otherwise. Boalt

[lesalexander]

I'm still stuck on the part where you want to live in Fresno and do civil rights work. Are you under the impression that such jobs exist in Fresno?

Yeah this is a big disconnect. All I can think of is maybe farm workers' rights stuff?
But please expand on what career you're envisioning, OP.

I actually wouldn't mind returning to Fresno to work with a McCormick Barstow type firm temporarily to get acquainted with different law fields. I myself would prefer to return to Fresno and do Immigration Law given that it has overlaps with human rights. After a while, I would like to leave Fresno and venture into bigger non-profit types (either civil rights or international human rights). With all this in mind, which school would help with the most flexibility?

[Draconem]

Go to Berk.

[Jordan Catalano]

I'd caution about the advice to retake for more money. If the advice is for the general T14, then yes, but everyone says Berkeley is a black box for admissions and financial aid and after going through both processes I'd (anecdotally) agree. Check out the 2019 thread. People with great LSAT scores were getting nothing from B and going elsewhere (or not being admitted to begin with). If OP has 22K in aid that's nearly half of in-state tuition already. That might be as good as it gets for most applicants, aside from Berkeley matching a T14 full ride (which is what a retake could be good for here).

[cavalier1138]

I'm still stuck on the part where you want to live in Fresno and do civil rights work. Are you under the impression that such jobs exist in Fresno?

Yeah this is a big disconnect. All I can think of is maybe farm workers' rights stuff?
But please expand on what career you're envisioning, OP.

I actually wouldn't mind returning to Fresno to work with a McCormick Barstow type firm temporarily to get acquainted with different law fields. I myself would prefer to return to Fresno and do Immigration Law given that it has overlaps with human rights. After a while, I would like to leave Fresno and venture into bigger non-profit types (either civil rights or international human rights). With all this in mind, which school would help with the most flexibility?

I think you may want to talk to lawyers in those fields, because the scenario you're describing doesn't exist. You don't start out at a small firm in Fresno and end up as a staff attorney at the ACLU. And immigration law doesn't usually feed into a wider human rights application (although you could potentially end up at the ACLU out of immigration law, because of the crossover in the US).

In general though, I think you might be a bit too optimistic about your employment opportunities in Fresno. As was already mentioned, most of the big civil rights work that affects people in the Fresno area is being done in the bigger cities in Cailfornia (Sacramento, SF, etc.)

[BigZuck]

What kind of work experience/background do you have in civil rights/human rights/immigration or whatever kind of career you envision having?

[pmcd88]

210k seems high - but then I saw that you're just "from" fresno and not "in" fresno. Maybe you should move back to Fresno for a few months while you retake so you can cop the in-state discount.

My quick and dirty calculations: *in-state tuition of 49k, less your 22k scholly, spread over 3 years is like 90k after fees/interest. With the wife chipping in but not covering living expenses, you're looking at 120-150k debt.

Also:
1) Still need your GPA/LSAT
2) Not kidding about a sizable chance you won't be working in civil rights

Yes 120-150k for just tuition, but total should be about 210k

LSAT is below 25th at Berkleley, GPA above 75th

If you can get your LSAT up to their 50th you'll be looking at a Bunch more scholarship money. Why not do what was mentioned earlier? Take some time off to regain that CA residency while retaking the LSAT then go to Berkley with minimal debt.

You are in a great position here! Don't waste it!

Also, I apologize for coming off "snarky" it's been a long morning at work.

⬆This.
Also because you want to do public interest type things if you decide to go for it this cycle check out lrap for both schools:

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/admissions ... e-program/

https://law.ucdavis.edu/financial-aid/lrap/

I wish I could do LRAP! But one of the conditions is that my wife and I must make under 100,000 (together) to qualify. My wife and I might make 50 grand a piece so I wouldn't qualify.

Maybe:
"Eligibility for LRAP loans, as well as the amount of the educational loans and scheduled repayment of them, depends also on an applicant’s annualized full-time income. Annualized full-time income is the equivalent of the gross income reported in the Financial Statement and Personal Information section of the LRAP application. For those applicants working less than full-time, it includes salary adjusted for the calendar period employed and the number of hours worked per week.

A married participant’s annualized full-time income will not be adjusted unless his or her spouse has a higher income, in which case the participant’s eligible income will be calculated based on half of the joint income of the couple."

If you end up below 100k combined or if your spouse makes slightly more than you, then you would.

[Rigo]

I'm confused on the Berk COA. Is it $210k or $127k?

[lesalexander]

I'm confused on the Berk COA. Is it $210k or $127k?

Approximately 127k. Could be a bit higher.

[Rigo]

I'm confused on the Berk COA. Is it $210k or $127k?

Approximately 127k. Could be a bit higher.

Wow you were way off in your OP estimate then. Glad it went down over $80k overnight.

[worldtraveler]

I have no idea how you plan on transitioning from Fresno immigration law to international human rights work.

[cavalier1138]

I have no idea how you plan on transitioning from Fresno immigration law to international human rights work.

I am still deeply curious about how that will work, as well. Fresno isn't even a major hub in California, let alone on a global scale.

Also, can I PM you, worldtraveler?