BU for free vs. Berkeley w/ full tuition, vs. Michigan w/150k Forum

[fliptrip]

Would the fam be okay if you all ended up living in [insert location that Berkeley gets you to that's not Boston] after you finish school? You'd be looking at two big moves, as well, right? There's the move to Berkeley and then the move to where you are going to work and settle.

[krads153]

I'd probably take BU here...considering your markets, living at home for free, not needing to relocate your family, etc. - but honestly, are you sure you want to go to law school with a family already? This lifestyle (especially if you want to do biglaw) ain't easy...

[BigZuck]

I think Berkeley is the (relatively) easy choice based on career goals but BU might make more sense when you factor in your personal circumstances/preferences. That's something no one here can really help you with, you've got to weigh all that stuff on your own and decide for yourself.

FWIW (absolutely nothing) I wouldn't fault you for taking BU based on family considerations.

[180kickflip]

I'd probably take BU here...considering your markets, living at home for free, not needing to relocate your family, etc. - but honestly, are you sure you want to go to law school with a family already? This lifestyle (especially if you want to do biglaw) ain't easy...

[krads153]

^ Just fyi, I think that unless you get to Skadden or a similar level of firm, it will be hard to get an in house job with only 2 to 3 years of biglaw experience. A lot of people these days lateral out of biglaw to in house around year 5....so it likely won't be as quick as you may anticipate. That said, if it weren't for your personal concerns (having a family, wanting secondary markets on the East Coast), I'd easily choose Berkeley over BU. But I think that your personal considerations hold some weight here. Plus graduating without debt is very important when you have a family, imo. Also, the Bay Area is a ridiculously expensive, and IMO (I am a Bay Area native but my family has been there since forever....) almost impossible to raise a family in these days.

[180kickflip]

Thanks for the insight krads ^

[BigZuck]

Thanks for the insight krads ^

I'd like to add that I won't have debt regardless of which I choose. I have savings that can cover whatever I spend on COL at Berkeley (40-50k if necessary), and I imagine I'd throw any summer earnings at my living expenses as well. Still, at BU, that would all be growing savings/ $ for a down payment

I don't know how big your savings are but I think I'd rather have 60K law school debt and 60K cash money in the bank than 0k law school debt and 0k in the bank (or whatever)

Just IMO

[PeanutsNJam]

Your odds of striking out are certainly higher at BU than Berkeley, but I'm pretty sure you can get biglaw from median at BU with URM status. The difference is you could get biglaw from Berkeley below median without much problem.

@Zuck, if your 60k in the bank isn't growing at at least 7% annually, it's better to break even. You're bleeding money by keeping the debt.

[existentialcrisis]

Your odds of striking out are certainly higher at BU than Berkeley, but I'm pretty sure you can get biglaw from median at BU with URM status. The difference is you could get biglaw from Berkeley below median without much problem.

This. OP seems worried about hedging their bets, this is why I see Boalt as the right call. I can't imagine that there are a whole lot of URMs at T14s with strong Boston ties, and I imagine firm's would be willing to dig pretty deep into Berkley's class in order to get one. I think OP's chances at landing big law at Berkley are extremely high (regardless of grades), and I'd imagine OP's chances at Boston firms would be excellent as well.

[Tls2016]

Learn how to top OP. You won't even hit median if you type as badly as you say.

[180kickflip]

Learn how to top OP. You won't even hit median if you type as badly as you say.

Will do. Just wanted to add that to the equation in case I'm not able to improve fast enough.

[BigZuck]

Your odds of striking out are certainly higher at BU than Berkeley, but I'm pretty sure you can get biglaw from median at BU with URM status. The difference is you could get biglaw from Berkeley below median without much problem.

@Zuck, if your 60k in the bank isn't growing at at least 7% annually, it's better to break even. You're bleeding money by keeping the debt.

I understand the concept of interest

Cash money $$$$$$$$ yo. He's got a family. Depends on how much cash money he has and how much debt were talking though of course.

[bretby]

Your odds of striking out are certainly higher at BU than Berkeley, but I'm pretty sure you can get biglaw from median at BU with URM status. The difference is you could get biglaw from Berkeley below median without much problem.

@Zuck, if your 60k in the bank isn't growing at at least 7% annually, it's better to break even. You're bleeding money by keeping the debt.

I understand the concept of interest

Cash money $$$$$$$$ yo. He's got a family. Depends on how much cash money he has and how much debt were talking though of course.

Surprising that no one has asked about your fiancee and how portable her career is - her opportunity costs of moving/uprooting a career twice in 3 years would also be a factor, I would hope.

[180kickflip]

Your odds of striking out are certainly higher at BU than Berkeley, but I'm pretty sure you can get biglaw from median at BU with URM status. The difference is you could get biglaw from Berkeley below median without much problem.

@Zuck, if your 60k in the bank isn't growing at at least 7% annually, it's better to break even. You're bleeding money by keeping the debt.

I understand the concept of interest

Cash money $$$$$$$$ yo. He's got a family. Depends on how much cash money he has and how much debt were talking though of course.

Surprising that no one has asked about your fiancee and how portable her career is - her opportunity costs of moving/uprooting a career twice in 3 years would also be a factor, I would hope.

[sd5289]

Well, then, this breaks down pretty simply kick if you look at downside risk.

At BU, your downside is striking out on biglaw.
At Berkeley, your downside is getting biglaw in your less than ideal location.

Seems like you do care a lot more about your employment outcome than the location of your employment, so Berkeley it is.

Yeah. The outcome really is extremely important. I already have a decent job in Boston with good hours and a 50kish salary. I don't want to put in 3 years of hard work (and relocate) just to end up with the same salary but worse hours. I want to be a lawyer, but if I miss out on an outcome with significantly higher salary potential, my legal career will probably be over before it starts. I'm not going to kill myself to provide my family with less than I do now.

Sounds like Berkeley to me then.

And hey, the winters there are WAAAAAY better than they are in Boston.

[hairbear7]

This is such a personal decision based off of your wife and child-you already know the employment/potential career differences. Good options either way though, grats!

[lacrossebrother]

Can we just talk about the economics of "free" in Boston? How could you have a wife and a kid and live somewhere for free? Does "home" really mean with your parents?
And how exactly do you calculate that you'd be $40k deficient in California based on your standard of living and wife's income?

[180kickflip]

Can we just talk about the economics of "free" in Boston? How could you have a wife and a kid and live somewhere for free? Does "home" really mean with your parents?
And how exactly do you calculate that you'd be $40k deficient in California based on your standard of living and wife's income?

[krads153]

Can we just talk about the economics of "free" in Boston? How could you have a wife and a kid and live somewhere for free? Does "home" really mean with your parents?
And how exactly do you calculate that you'd be $40k deficient in California based on your standard of living and wife's income?

Thanks to family, we have a decent place of our own to live rent free. Thanks to producing the first grandchild of the family, the kid's needs are easily met. I guess it's not technically "free" from an economics perspective (opportunity costs of sitting in class versus work, etc.), but it's really as close as can be.

$40k is just a guess, but my SO and I would be splitting the cost of grad family housing (which is $1350/mo with utilities, internet, and cable included), and that'd be just about our only major expense

Man, if I were you I probably wouldn't even bother going to law school.....free room and board, free childcare, and a low stress, normal hours job? Sounds like a better deal than most of us lawyers have....

[lacrossebrother]

Couldn't you rent the Boston place to someone else though? The place would just idle?

[fliptrip]

Can we just talk about the economics of "free" in Boston? How could you have a wife and a kid and live somewhere for free? Does "home" really mean with your parents?
And how exactly do you calculate that you'd be $40k deficient in California based on your standard of living and wife's income?

Thanks to family, we have a decent place of our own to live rent free. Thanks to producing the first grandchild of the family, the kid's needs are easily met. I guess it's not technically "free" from an economics perspective (opportunity costs of sitting in class versus work, etc.), but it's really as close as can be.

$40k is just a guess, but my SO and I would be splitting the cost of grad family housing (which is $1350/mo with utilities, internet, and cable included), and that'd be just about our only major expense

Man, if I were you I probably wouldn't even bother going to law school.....free room and board, free childcare, and a low stress, normal hours job? Sounds like a better deal than most of us lawyers have....

Now this is interesting. I wonder if you did an hourly breakdown if you would end up making more or less working biglaw hours versus your current job.

[lacrossebrother]

But would you trade Xander Bogaerts for Nelson Cruz?
I would. But there's something to be said for the hometown, and hitting for contact.

[lacrossebrother]

The hourly comparison is dumb.

[fliptrip]

The hourly comparison is dumb.

You're right. So dumb.

[treeey86]

Actual 4th year attorney here. T20 grad. In-house.


Go Berkeley and dont look back. Its an amazing school for free. It will open plenty more doors than BU ever will. You can get back to Boston if you want. If your career goals or geographic preference change then Berkeley puts you in a much better position than BU. Approximately $40k in debt after law school is peanuts. And that is for a top law school degree at Berkeley.

Moving and having to uproot your family will be tough, no way around that. But dont forget about Berkeley's grading system (or really lack thereof),. Its essentially pass/fail. That will take a LOT of stress off your shoulders which you cannot underestimate. Especially since you will be older than the average student, living with a SO, and having kids, the more relaxed grading system will help you keep your sanity. Your personal situation is prohibitive of the all-night study benders for weeks straight that the young 20-somethings will do. The Pass/Fail system might help even the playing field for you. Plus you can be much lower in the class standings and get top jobs than you can at BU. Big Law will go down way past top 50% at Berkeley for hiring. At BU its probably top 20% or bust.