UCLA vs Berkeley vs Georgetown vs Chicago Forum

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Lol no hate, I don't care if anyone trashes a school for a dumb reason (I'm trying to be logical and go off of numbers and job prospects anyway)

I'm mostly curious about numbers, like what would a good offer be from Berkeley? It feels like people are pushing for huge scholarship or bust, but truthfully, I never anticipated going to law school debt free...

Nobody said you need to go for free to make it an okay deal. Personally, knowing what I know now (I'm a midlevel in biglaw) I'd try to keep debt under 100k at the time of repayment (so that includes interest) if possible. I wouldn't go over 150k total at the time of repayment (including interest), period, but would try to keep it under 100k....

I would not go to law school if I only had your options. There are a lot of things you can do in life besides law, even if you think you don't have that option right now.

Biglaw is generally terrible and who knows how long you will last.

[landshoes]

A bit more info: I have no interest in clerk ships.

How much money would I have to get from these schools to justify me going, in your opinions? Because I was always told that debt was an inevitable part of the law school process. I never anticipated going for free. I have 0 debt from undergrad so I'll be starting fresh.

Also, if I retook and reapplied, what would the best possible final result be? Bumping last to 170+? Getting a full ride to Berkeley? Is it really full-ride or bust? Because I don't hear of too many people getting cashed out at t-4's either (like yeah, I know 15k at chi is nothing, but I don't hear of many people getting 100k because chi doesn't have to)

I have a 6 figure scholarship at UChi.

It's not just free or nothing, but if you still have room to improve on the LSAT you can do much better than what you're getting right now.

[SD619]

A bit more info: I have no interest in clerk ships.

How much money would I have to get from these schools to justify me going, in your opinions? Because I was always told that debt was an inevitable part of the law school process. I never anticipated going for free. I have 0 debt from undergrad so I'll be starting fresh.

Also, if I retook and reapplied, what would the best possible final result be? Bumping last to 170+? Getting a full ride to Berkeley? Is it really full-ride or bust? Because I don't hear of too many people getting cashed out at t-4's either (like yeah, I know 15k at chi is nothing, but I don't hear of many people getting 100k because chi doesn't have to)

I have a 6 figure scholarship at UChi.

It's not just free or nothing, but if you still have room to improve on the LSAT you can do much better than what you're getting right now.

You and how many other people? Congrats, but I doubt the vast majority or anywhere near have 6figures. I'd rather go to harvard

[SD619]

Lol no hate, I don't care if anyone trashes a school for a dumb reason (I'm trying to be logical and go off of numbers and job prospects anyway)

I'm mostly curious about numbers, like what would a good offer be from Berkeley? It feels like people are pushing for huge scholarship or bust, but truthfully, I never anticipated going to law school debt free...

Nobody said you need to go for free to make it an okay deal. Personally, knowing what I know now (I'm a midlevel in biglaw) I'd try to keep debt under 100k at the time of repayment (so that includes interest) if possible. I wouldn't go over 150k total at the time of repayment (including interest), period, but would try to keep it under 100k....

I would not go to law school if I only had your options. There are a lot of things you can do in life besides law, even if you think you don't have that option right now.

Biglaw is generally terrible and who knows how long you will last.

Dude there are people with way worse options than me who go to law school. You probably even had worse options than me, to be frank

Next

[pppp]

I'd go Chicago at your current money. You have good negotiating tools here. Vandy with 100k and Chicago with 15k, UcLa should raise your offer a little, and I would think Berkeley would match Chi. Unless you're in state and Chi and Berkeley are already same price. Then it's a toss up.

If you're taking out all loans, I would avoid 200k debt. Push UCLas offer up and then go there. Your URM status should help get big law, if you do well at a T20 school

[krads153]

lol. This thread is such a shitshow. If you don't want people's opinions, OP, then don't ask for them.

Also a ton of people in law school come from wealthy families, so yeah some people are going to pay more for law school - but that's because parents are footing the bill. On average roughly 25-30% of the T-14 don't graduate with any loans whatsoever....that isn't all from scholarship money. There's just a lot of rich kids. Like 1/4 of my circle of friends at my T-14 had parents whose net worth exceeded 10 million.

Here's average debt amounts at law schools (USNEWS). It looks like most people end up taking out less than you will in loans....if you still don't want to believe it, then go to law school and be broke while the rest of us enjoy being rich.....

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings

[SD619]

I'd go Chicago at your current money. You have good negotiating tools here. Vandy with 100k and Chicago with 15k, UcLa should raise your offer a little, and I would think Berkeley would match Chi. Unless you're in state and Chi and Berkeley are already same price. Then it's a toss up.

If you're taking out all loans, I would avoid 200k debt. Push UCLas offer up and then go there. Your URM status should help get big law, if you do well at a T20 school

Good advice. As I've said, Georgetown and Berkeley haven't sent scholly info yet. Will def try to negotiate

[SD619]

lol. This thread is such a shitshow. If you don't want people's opinions, OP, then don't ask for them.

Also a ton of people in law school come from wealthy families, so yeah some people are going to pay more for law school - but that's because parents are footing the bill. On average roughly 25-30% of the T-14 don't graduate with any loans whatsoever....that isn't all from scholarship money. There's just a lot of rich kids. Like 1/4 of my circle of friends at my T-14 had parents whose net worth exceeded 10 million.

Here's average debt amounts at law schools (USNEWS). It looks like most people end up taking out less than you will in loans....if you still don't want to believe it, then go to law school and be broke while the rest of us enjoy being rich.....

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings

I was asking for advice on my choices regarding numbers, not if I should go to law schools. "Don't go" isn't what I asked.

Also,

Lol at you being rich

[krads153]

lol. This thread is such a shitshow. If you don't want people's opinions, OP, then don't ask for them.

Also a ton of people in law school come from wealthy families, so yeah some people are going to pay more for law school - but that's because parents are footing the bill. On average roughly 25-30% of the T-14 don't graduate with any loans whatsoever....that isn't all from scholarship money. There's just a lot of rich kids. Like 1/4 of my circle of friends at my T-14 had parents whose net worth exceeded 10 million.

Here's average debt amounts at law schools (USNEWS). It looks like most people end up taking out less than you will in loans....if you still don't want to believe it, then go to law school and be broke while the rest of us enjoy being rich.....

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings

I was asking for advice on my choices regarding numbers, not if I should go to law schools. "Don't go" isn't what I asked.

Also,

Lol at you being rich

Just take a look at the rankings for debt - if you go at these options, you will be poorer than the average grad. Just retake the LSAT - even a couple points could help a lot.

[SD619]

lol. This thread is such a shitshow. If you don't want people's opinions, OP, then don't ask for them.

Also a ton of people in law school come from wealthy families, so yeah some people are going to pay more for law school - but that's because parents are footing the bill. On average roughly 25-30% of the T-14 don't graduate with any loans whatsoever....that isn't all from scholarship money. There's just a lot of rich kids. Like 1/4 of my circle of friends at my T-14 had parents whose net worth exceeded 10 million.

Here's average debt amounts at law schools (USNEWS). It looks like most people end up taking out less than you will in loans....if you still don't want to believe it, then go to law school and be broke while the rest of us enjoy being rich.....

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings

Northwestern= 166k average

Guess most people at northwestern made a huge mistake and are going to be poor. Shouldn't have gone to law school, right?

University of Vermont- 146k

....?

[krads153]

lol. This thread is such a shitshow. If you don't want people's opinions, OP, then don't ask for them.

Also a ton of people in law school come from wealthy families, so yeah some people are going to pay more for law school - but that's because parents are footing the bill. On average roughly 25-30% of the T-14 don't graduate with any loans whatsoever....that isn't all from scholarship money. There's just a lot of rich kids. Like 1/4 of my circle of friends at my T-14 had parents whose net worth exceeded 10 million.

Here's average debt amounts at law schools (USNEWS). It looks like most people end up taking out less than you will in loans....if you still don't want to believe it, then go to law school and be broke while the rest of us enjoy being rich.....

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings

Northwestern= 166k average

Guess most people at northwestern made a huge mistake and are going to be poor. Shouldn't have gone to law school, right?

Northwestern has one of the highest average debt amounts out of the T-14...and honestly? Probably yes, they shouldn't have gone at those prices.

And they will still take out on average less debt than you will.

[SD619]

lol. This thread is such a shitshow. If you don't want people's opinions, OP, then don't ask for them.

Also a ton of people in law school come from wealthy families, so yeah some people are going to pay more for law school - but that's because parents are footing the bill. On average roughly 25-30% of the T-14 don't graduate with any loans whatsoever....that isn't all from scholarship money. There's just a lot of rich kids. Like 1/4 of my circle of friends at my T-14 had parents whose net worth exceeded 10 million.

Here's average debt amounts at law schools (USNEWS). It looks like most people end up taking out less than you will in loans....if you still don't want to believe it, then go to law school and be broke while the rest of us enjoy being rich.....

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings

Northwestern= 166k average

Guess most people at northwestern made a huge mistake and are going to be poor. Shouldn't have gone to law school, right?

Northwestern has one of the highest average debt amounts out of the T-14...and honestly? Probably yes, they shouldn't have gone at those prices.

And they will still take out on average less debt than you will.

My cycle isn't even over and as I've said 100 times my scholarship info is still pending at a few schools

[fliptrip]

OP, if I remember correctly, you have a special circumstance that is making you feel like you have to lock up your school choice now. Is that still your thinking?

First, let me pile on...there's no way Berkeley's lecherous dean should inform your law school choice. Do you think admits are thinking twice about HLS because of the fact a building on campus is currently being occupied by students who believe they are oppressed?

Why isn't USC on your school list? They are useful if only for leverage to get UCLA's offer up.

I would not attend Georgetown to get back to LA under any circumstance, but that's just my opinion.

Chicago is wayyyyyy too expensive at $15k discount. That's a total non-starter.

I don't think you can get the best advice until you know your Berkeley offer...if they come in at a considerable figure, that changes things.

[BillClinton Jr]

OP, if I remember correctly, you have a special circumstance that is making you feel like you have to lock up your school choice now. Is that still your thinking?

First, let me pile on...there's no way Berkeley's lecherous dean should inform your law school choice. Do you think admits are thinking twice about HLS because of the fact a building on campus is currently being occupied by students who believe they are oppressed?

Why isn't USC on your school list? They are useful if only for leverage to get UCLA's offer up.

I would not attend Georgetown to get back to LA under any circumstance, but that's just my opinion.

Chicago is wayyyyyy too expensive at $15k discount. That's a total non-starter.

I don't think you can get the best advice until you know your Berkeley offer...if they come in at a considerable figure, that changes things.

best advice in this thread

[landshoes]

A bit more info: I have no interest in clerk ships.

How much money would I have to get from these schools to justify me going, in your opinions? Because I was always told that debt was an inevitable part of the law school process. I never anticipated going for free. I have 0 debt from undergrad so I'll be starting fresh.

Also, if I retook and reapplied, what would the best possible final result be? Bumping last to 170+? Getting a full ride to Berkeley? Is it really full-ride or bust? Because I don't hear of too many people getting cashed out at t-4's either (like yeah, I know 15k at chi is nothing, but I don't hear of many people getting 100k because chi doesn't have to)

I have a 6 figure scholarship at UChi.

It's not just free or nothing, but if you still have room to improve on the LSAT you can do much better than what you're getting right now.

You and how many other people? Congrats, but I doubt the vast majority or anywhere near have 6figures. I'd rather go to harvard

OK, I agree that you should not come here. Good luck with everything!

[SD619]

OP, if I remember correctly, you have a special circumstance that is making you feel like you have to lock up your school choice now. Is that still your thinking?

First, let me pile on...there's no way Berkeley's lecherous dean should inform your law school choice. Do you think admits are thinking twice about HLS because of the fact a building on campus is currently being occupied by students who believe they are oppressed?

Why isn't USC on your school list? They are useful if only for leverage to get UCLA's offer up.

I would not attend Georgetown to get back to LA under any circumstance, but that's just my opinion.

Chicago is wayyyyyy too expensive at $15k discount. That's a total non-starter.

I don't think you can get the best advice until you know your Berkeley offer...if they come in at a considerable figure, that changes things.

Excellent advice. I applied to USC but convinced they lost my application. Haven't heard a thing. Ur2 since 2/4.

This I was pretty much my method of thinking in the first place, that the sticker at Chicago wouldn't make sense for me.

Without going into detail... Yes. Thank you for reading my other thread. Definite special circumstances so "retake and reapply" might not benefit me.. But again, I want to leave that out of this thread.

I will post a more specific thread when offered money from Berk. Thank you for your time.

[SD619]

A bit more info: I have no interest in clerk ships.

How much money would I have to get from these schools to justify me going, in your opinions? Because I was always told that debt was an inevitable part of the law school process. I never anticipated going for free. I have 0 debt from undergrad so I'll be starting fresh.

Also, if I retook and reapplied, what would the best possible final result be? Bumping last to 170+? Getting a full ride to Berkeley? Is it really full-ride or bust? Because I don't hear of too many people getting cashed out at t-4's either (like yeah, I know 15k at chi is nothing, but I don't hear of many people getting 100k because chi doesn't have to)

I have a 6 figure scholarship at UChi.

It's not just free or nothing, but if you still have room to improve on the LSAT you can do much better than what you're getting right now.

You and how many other people? Congrats, but I doubt the vast majority or anywhere near have 6figures. I'd rather go to harvard

OK, I agree that you should not come here. Good luck with everything!

I think you misunderstood my poorly phrased response. I was saying with both at sticker price to return to LA I would rather go to Harvard as I think it would be better for SD market which is very insular. I promise I'm not a prestige whore, or why would I be considering UCLA? I just want the best shot at a good future for me and to eventually help my community and my family. We're pretty poor so money is an issue.

Edit: I'm from San Diego so LA is close enough

[landshoes]

A bit more info: I have no interest in clerk ships.

How much money would I have to get from these schools to justify me going, in your opinions? Because I was always told that debt was an inevitable part of the law school process. I never anticipated going for free. I have 0 debt from undergrad so I'll be starting fresh.

Also, if I retook and reapplied, what would the best possible final result be? Bumping last to 170+? Getting a full ride to Berkeley? Is it really full-ride or bust? Because I don't hear of too many people getting cashed out at t-4's either (like yeah, I know 15k at chi is nothing, but I don't hear of many people getting 100k because chi doesn't have to)

I have a 6 figure scholarship at UChi.

It's not just free or nothing, but if you still have room to improve on the LSAT you can do much better than what you're getting right now.

You and how many other people? Congrats, but I doubt the vast majority or anywhere near have 6figures. I'd rather go to harvard

OK, I agree that you should not come here. Good luck with everything!

I think you misunderstood my poorly phrased response. I was saying with both at sticker price to return to LA I would rather go to Harvard as I think it would be better for SD market which is very insular. I promise I'm not a prestige whore, or why would I be considering UCLA? I just want the best shot at a good future for me and to eventually help my community and my family. We're pretty poor so money is an issue.

Edit: I'm from San Diego so LA is close enough

Honestly, though, from what I can tell you can't start school this fall no matter what so I'm not sure what the resistance is about here.

In a lot of replies, you are coming across as really condescending. I realize text doesn't always reflect tone. Either way, you should get into the habit of assuming that you're talking to people who are at least as smart and knowledgable as you are. If someone says something that seems to be incompatible with your perception of the world, try to figure out where they're coming from or whether they might have access to information that you don't. If you go around assuming everyone is wrong/dumb/doesn't know what they're talking about/can't logic, you are going to piss a lot of people off, and miss out on a lot of good information. You may be the smartest and most knowledgable among your friends and family right now (although I doubt it), but it certainly won't be true when you're at law school with a bunch of people who are your intellectual peers (and profs, who are about a million times smarter than both of us.)

Anyway, to expand on my earlier comment, I am MA and I have a very similar GPA to you. So you might be curious about how I have a 6-figure scholarship at UChi, and whether that's doable for you. Shutting me down because you assumed that I couldn't possibly tell you something you didn't already know was foolish. Luckily, I'm still willing to let you know how I did it: I got a better LSAT than the LSAT you currently have. That's it. You might want to try it if you want to go to UChi for less than what they're currently offering. There don't seem to be many downsides given that you already have to take a year off. Good luck with everything.

[Londonbear]

I would not do Georgetown if you're trying to go back to LA after. CA is notoriously hard for us during OCI, even with connects. Do Georgetown if you're targeting DC and NYC markets. I'd do Berkeley over UCLA if the price isn't too different. I feel you'll give yourself more options coming out from a T14.