Ok, I think I've narrowed it down to three now. Bear with me, buddies Forum

[BigZuck]

Not loving the mountain of debt but I think I'd probably do Berkeley here out of all those choices. The "if my organization still exists" thing is troubling to me but with a commitment to the cause I would think you could get another job somewhere else if you had to.

It kind of sounds like maybe you want to keep working while you're in school (maybe I'm wrong about that though). Are there no part time options at all? Or could a CA accredited school be an option? I don't know much about them but if you found one that was cheap and close to where you live now maybe that could be just as good for you.

[A. Nony Mouse]

A word of caution that I wasn't actually very aware of until I started law school; the California Bar especially (but really all states) will come absolutely unglued if you're representing clients as a lawyer while in law school if you're not under the direct supervision of an attorney. Just be careful.

Immigration stuff is different - non-lawyers are allowed in a lot of contexts. (Still important to be careful, but I don't think that should be an issue here.)

And I can see an argument for Berkeley, too. It's kind of a complicated unusual case, though - there are also reasonable arguments for most of your options.

[Unfathomableruckus]

Not loving the mountain of debt but I think I'd probably do Berkeley here out of all those choices. The "if my organization still exists" thing is troubling to me but with a commitment to the cause I would think you could get another job somewhere else if you had to.

It kind of sounds like maybe you want to keep working while you're in school (maybe I'm wrong about that though). Are there no part time options at all? Or could a CA accredited school be an option? I don't know much about them but if you found one that was cheap and close to where you live now maybe that could be just as good for you.

I do have two part time options: USF and Golden Gate, both at a full tuition scholarship with GPA stipulations that cause over half of the recipients to have to pay sticker after the first year. CA Accredited might be an option. I had previously ruled it out just because I figured it was a bit of a scam. Do you know of anyone who has gone that route?

[Unfathomableruckus]

A word of caution that I wasn't actually very aware of until I started law school; the California Bar especially (but really all states) will come absolutely unglued if you're representing clients as a lawyer while in law school if you're not under the direct supervision of an attorney. Just be careful.

Immigration stuff is different - non-lawyers are allowed in a lot of contexts. (Still important to be careful, but I don't think that should be an issue here.)

And I can see an argument for Berkeley, too. It's kind of a complicated unusual case, though - there are also reasonable arguments for most of your options.

Yes, thanks for that. I am authorized to represent clients with my organization but not independently. Don't worry. I have done my research! Thanks for the thoughtful advice. I was worried that if have people telling me that both options were moronic! I'm glad that's not the case. I'm going to do more research on both schools and LRAP, and also see what Hastings says about my scholarship increase request. I'm also going to Admitted Students events for both in the middle of the month.

[Unfathomableruckus]

I was kind of on the fence about Berkeley before, but the more I think about it, the more okay I feel saying you should consider it at sticker. You seem like you know exactly what kind of public interest work you want to do (a big plus), you're aware of your surroundings enough to know what being stuck in a low-income position for ten years looks like, and other posters aren't wrong - Berkeley will open up doors in this particular field that UCH probably won't.

in Guatemala

This is something you should look into very closely and I don't know how much help I'd actually be here. PSLF (which Berkeley's modern LRAP is dependent upon) will typically only apply to people working for non-profits/government entities inside the United States. If you're working for a US non-profit in Guatemala, you're probably fine. If you're working for an immigration non-profit in the US, you're definitely fine. If you're working with political activists in Guatemala... that might be a problem. Not insurmountable of course, but definitely something to really dig down into before you take out a quarter of a million dollars in loans.

I would probably pass on USF with stips. USF without stips has potential, though - maybe call them up and ask them to remove the stipulations on your scholarship?

and I'll stop getting static from USCIS when I represent people at infopass appointments.

A word of caution that I wasn't actually very aware of until I started law school; the California Bar especially (but really all states) will come absolutely unglued if you're representing clients as a lawyer while in law school if you're not under the direct supervision of an attorney. Just be careful.

Thanks for the warnings. I am definitely authorized to represent clients in immigration cases under the supervision of my organization, which has BIA Accreditation, and so do I. If I chose Berkeley, I wouldn't take a position if I didn't have it confirmed and reconfirmed that it would qualify for LRAP. Today, I'll ask USF and Golden Gate to get rid of the stips. Golden Gate too because USF is a gnarly commute (train plus bus... about 11 dollars a day added to the five I already pay to get to work and back from home. Total commute time per day would be about 5hrs), where GGU would be $11 total and 4hrs total for the commute.

[Tls2016]

Oh God I hate Golden Gate. They have been just terrible to their students.
Is USF the same level?

[BigZuck]

With the kid and having to deal with law school and all that I wouldn't put up with a 4 or 5 hour commute on top of that, that sounds like my literal Hell.

Again, given that you're locked into where you live, I would do Berkeley. Like other people have said though, I would just really think long and hard about the reason for getting the JD and be absolutely sure that it is going to advance your career and get you where you want to go. PSLF+LRAP are great but depending on them when you have 250K+ debt hanging over your head is pretty scary to me. Then again, you sound like the type of person that those programs are made for.

[krads153]

I vote neither. Taking Berkeley at sticker (esp. with a family) seems very risky....not worth it.

[Unfathomableruckus]

Oh God I hate Golden Gate. They have been just terrible to their students.
Is USF the same level?

They're both unranked but I get way better vibes from USF. I went to visit both and at USF, the students were really cool and seemed happy. At Golden Gate, the students were equally cool, but not happy.

[Unfathomableruckus]

With the kid and having to deal with law school and all that I wouldn't put up with a 4 or 5 hour commute on top of that, that sounds like my literal Hell.

Again, given that you're locked into where you live, I would do Berkeley. Like other people have said though, I would just really think long and hard about the reason for getting the JD and be absolutely sure that it is going to advance your career and get you where you want to go. PSLF+LRAP are great but depending on them when you have 250K+ debt hanging over your head is pretty scary to me. Then again, you sound like the type of person that those programs are made for.

Berkeley would cut my daily commute down to 2 hours (the same as it is now) and save me 7 dollars per day. Many of my coworkers with JDs are doing LRAP and they say it's scary but they're glad they went for it. Apart from the increased flexibility and stability that would come from a JD (especially if funding ran out for my org, and because of a higher salary and more options in general) I just can't see myself spending my life as a paralegal, wishing I was a lawyer instead. I literally get called a lawyer on a daily basis and have to correct people, and it makes me sad. I know that part is based more on emotion than reason, but I have to admit it if I'm asking for genuine advice. So considering that I'm jumping off a bridge, you think Berkeley's the best bridge to jump off of?

[Unfathomableruckus]

I vote neither. Taking Berkeley at sticker (esp. with a family) seems very risky....not worth it.

What do you think then? Retake/Reapply? Never go to law school?

[JonTheMandamus]

Wise posters have already given some great advice, so I'll just add that no matter what you end up choosing be proud of your choice and don't look back!

[krads153]

I vote neither. Taking Berkeley at sticker (esp. with a family) seems very risky....not worth it.

What do you think then? Retake/Reapply? Never go to law school?

Retake/reapply if you want. It's a lot easier retaking the LSAT for money than it is to pay off loans/living on a low salary with loans and being forced into a job for 10-20 years.

If I were in your shoes, with your goals, I'd rather take a full ride at a USF than Berkeley at sticker. Living with debt is hard when you're single/married with no kids, let alone with kids.

[Unfathomableruckus]

I vote neither. Taking Berkeley at sticker (esp. with a family) seems very risky....not worth it.

What do you think then? Retake/Reapply? Never go to law school?

Retake/reapply if you want. It's a lot easier retaking the LSAT for money than it is to pay off loans/living on a low salary with loans and being forced into a job for 10-20 years.

If I were in your shoes, with your goals, I'd rather take a full ride at a USF than Berkeley at sticker. Living with debt is hard when you're single/married with no kids, let alone with kids.

I may consider that if I can get the stips taken off, but I'd rather gamble on LRAP than on three years at sticker because I lost my scholarship (which happens to over half of USF's scholarship recipients. I'd be doing a four-year, part-time program) I will be emailing USF and Golden Gate today, requesting that the stips be removed.

[PeanutsNJam]

Keep saving and retake seems to be the best course of action.

If you absolutely must go to law school asap, I'd still say Berkeley. While you'd be saddled with debt, you're almost certainly going to get a fulfilling and substantive PI job from there. The odds of you wasting away 3 years of your life at USF or Hastings are very high. Not all PI jobs are equal.

[L’Étranger]

Berkeley + LRAP?

[pancakes3]

how married are you to the very narrow career path you've chosen for yourself? would you turn down DOJ EOIR? Fragomen? A nonprofit that's not in danger of folding 5 years down the line?

[Unfathomableruckus]

Keep saving and retake seems to be the best course of action.

If you absolutely must go to law school asap, I'd still say Berkeley. While you'd be saddled with debt, you're almost certainly going to get a fulfilling and substantive PI job from there. The odds of you wasting away 3 years of your life at USF or Hastings are very high. Not all PI jobs are equal.

Yes, and if I was shooting for Berkeley, a retake would be a waste of time b/c I'm at their 75th for LSAT and my GPA is so low that my softs must have gotten me in. I would hate to have to move, but if I did decide to, I have a kick-ass scholarship offer from WUSTL. The only reason I'm not taking that is b/c I'm super rooted to my community and I speak a really obscure indigenous language that is only spoken in select areas of the country. Most T14s don't have Mam Maya speakers in the surrounding area. Still, retaking isn't out of the question yet, although I'm leaning somewhat substantially towards attending law school next year.

[Unfathomableruckus]

Berkeley + LRAP?

That's correct. I'll edit the poll.

[Unfathomableruckus]

how married are you to the very narrow career path you've chosen for yourself? would you turn down DOJ EOIR? Fragomen? A nonprofit that's not in danger of folding 5 years down the line?

I think I would turn down both of those, yes. I know, I'm a silly person. I would say I'm about 80% married to this career path, meaning that if I chose another one, it would be because of absolute necessity or because I found an avenue through which I could effect greater positive change.

[PeanutsNJam]

Keep saving and retake seems to be the best course of action.

If you absolutely must go to law school asap, I'd still say Berkeley. While you'd be saddled with debt, you're almost certainly going to get a fulfilling and substantive PI job from there. The odds of you wasting away 3 years of your life at USF or Hastings are very high. Not all PI jobs are equal.

Yes, and if I was shooting for Berkeley, a retake would be a waste of time b/c I'm at their 75th for LSAT and my GPA is so low that my softs must have gotten me in. I would hate to have to move, but if I did decide to, I have a kick-ass scholarship offer from WUSTL. The only reason I'm not taking that is b/c I'm super rooted to my community and I speak a really obscure indigenous language that is only spoken in select areas of the country. Most T14s don't have Mam Maya speakers in the surrounding area. Still, retaking isn't out of the question yet, although I'm leaning somewhat substantially towards attending law school next year.

I think retaking opens the possibility of a large scholarship at UCLA/USC, or some scholarship at Berkeley, which would make your options all much better.

[BigZuck]

With the kid and having to deal with law school and all that I wouldn't put up with a 4 or 5 hour commute on top of that, that sounds like my literal Hell.

Again, given that you're locked into where you live, I would do Berkeley. Like other people have said though, I would just really think long and hard about the reason for getting the JD and be absolutely sure that it is going to advance your career and get you where you want to go. PSLF+LRAP are great but depending on them when you have 250K+ debt hanging over your head is pretty scary to me. Then again, you sound like the type of person that those programs are made for.

Berkeley would cut my daily commute down to 2 hours (the same as it is now) and save me 7 dollars per day. Many of my coworkers with JDs are doing LRAP and they say it's scary but they're glad they went for it. Apart from the increased flexibility and stability that would come from a JD (especially if funding ran out for my org, and because of a higher salary and more options in general) I just can't see myself spending my life as a paralegal, wishing I was a lawyer instead. I literally get called a lawyer on a daily basis and have to correct people, and it makes me sad. I know that part is based more on emotion than reason, but I have to admit it if I'm asking for genuine advice. So considering that I'm jumping off a bridge, you think Berkeley's the best bridge to jump off of?

Honestly? I think if you have a kid and/or a spouse you've got to be a grown up and not make multiple hundred thousand dollar decisions based on emotion when those decisions could highly disadvantage multiple generations of people.

I'm not saying don't go down this path but I am saying that if you're going to do it, make sure it's well thought out, logical, and something that you just have to do because you're not going to fulfill your calling in a better way.

[BigZuck]

If she's got a low GPA I'm not seeing the benefit of retaking here. Then again maybe I missed what her actual numbers are.

[fliptrip]

First, OP, are you absolutely certain you won't be getting any scholarship $ from B? I don't think any scholarship news has gone out from them yet. I know they don't have a reputation for generosity, but any amount would help.

Second, Berkeley's LRAP looks legit. They let you participate up to $100k in salary and cover all your IBR repayments up to $65k in salary. I don't know how that will jibe with your starting and going salaries at yours or similar organizations, but that looks pretty good to me.

Third, your deep experience, commitment, and focus are clear to me, at least as clear as it can be through the internets. That reduces a lot of the risk that can be created out of uncertainty. So, yes, sticker debt at Berkeley is a ton, but you are not likely to be someone looking in the mirror in 4 years saying, "what the hell have I done with my life?"

So that's a long way to say, go ahead and take Berkeley.

Also, yes, a retake could help you if you get to say 172 on the LSAT, but I don't see that making Berkeley free for you. Yes, maybe that makes USC or UCLA free, but given the connections you've already established in the Bay Area, it seems really unwise to pick up and go to school in a whole other city.

[PeanutsNJam]

Also, yes, a retake could help you if you get to say 172 on the LSAT, but I don't see that making Berkeley free for you. Yes, maybe that makes USC or UCLA free, but given the connections you've already established in the Bay Area, it seems really unwise to pick up and go to school in a whole other city.

There are $280,000 between "sticker" and "free." I think it's also important to emphasize how bad the employment prospects are out of Hastings. Again, not all PI jobs are the same. You can't discount grades and pedigree completely so long as you have some ~commitment to PI~. It's not that simple.

Would you take a year off and take the LSAT one time if someone would hand you $50,000? $100,000?

Hastings employment: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/hastings/

OP can go there, and has a 50% chance of not getting a lawyer job at all, completely throwing away 3 years of her life.