University of Chicago - Not a reputable school? Forum

[Tls2016]

OP it sounds like you will be practicing in Canada to be near your family anyway. Toronto is a good school.

[nerd1]

I am off. The strangest parents I have ever heard of. They are not representative of Asian parents generally. Trust me.

[ihenry]

I am off. The strangest parents I have ever heard of. They are not representative of Asian parents generally. Trust me.

Take-away message: if your parents are Asian, you NEED to go to Harvard.

[h3jk5h]

They do. They are the ones who shape my parents' decision to support me financially, as unreasonable as this may sound to you.

You guys think it's so easy to not give a crap and just do your own thing, and pick a school that you like, without the influence of your parents. But the sad reality is that I don't come from privilege, far from it. I don't have the luxury of disobeying my parents.

This is not an Asian thing. My parents knew how great UChicago was when I was applying. It is maybe an Asian-Canadian thing.

Regardless, I can't believe your inability to convince your parents of UChicago brand's awesomeness. Milton Friedman, Chicago School of Economics, law and economics, Nobel Prizes, etc etc. Not knowing U Chicago reflects one's ignorance about sciences generally I think.

I don't go to UChi btw.

Depends on what your circle is. My parents had a vague idea of U Chicago and knew it was a pretty well-regarded school, but their friends thought it was some state school. THeir friends don't know about law and economics, their nobel prize winners, Milton Friedman, etc. nor do they give a shit about that. And thats not really atypical.

Then those people should not matter at all in one's school choice.

[Tls2016]

They do. They are the ones who shape my parents' decision to support me financially, as unreasonable as this may sound to you.

You guys think it's so easy to not give a crap and just do your own thing, and pick a school that you like, without the influence of your parents. But the sad reality is that I don't come from privilege, far from it. I don't have the luxury of disobeying my parents.

This is not an Asian thing. My parents knew how great UChicago was when I was applying. It is maybe an Asian-Canadian thing.

Regardless, I can't believe your inability to convince your parents of UChicago brand's awesomeness. Milton Friedman, Chicago School of Economics, law and economics, Nobel Prizes, etc etc. Not knowing U Chicago reflects one's ignorance about sciences generally I think.

I don't go to UChi btw.

Depends on what your circle is. My parents had a vague idea of U Chicago and knew it was a pretty well-regarded school, but their friends thought it was some state school. THeir friends don't know about law and economics, their nobel prize winners, Milton Friedman, etc. nor do they give a shit about that. And thats not really atypical.

Then those people should not matter at all in one's school choice.

If you value your family the most, I wouldn't criticize you for that. Chicago is a fantastic law school so your instincts aren't wrong.
Where do you want to practice? Does it even make sense to come to the US? I know school in Canada is less expensive.

[ihenry]

They do. They are the ones who shape my parents' decision to support me financially, as unreasonable as this may sound to you.

You guys think it's so easy to not give a crap and just do your own thing, and pick a school that you like, without the influence of your parents. But the sad reality is that I don't come from privilege, far from it. I don't have the luxury of disobeying my parents.

This is not an Asian thing. My parents knew how great UChicago was when I was applying. It is maybe an Asian-Canadian thing.

Regardless, I can't believe your inability to convince your parents of UChicago brand's awesomeness. Milton Friedman, Chicago School of Economics, law and economics, Nobel Prizes, etc etc. Not knowing U Chicago reflects one's ignorance about sciences generally I think.

I don't go to UChi btw.

Depends on what your circle is. My parents had a vague idea of U Chicago and knew it was a pretty well-regarded school, but their friends thought it was some state school. THeir friends don't know about law and economics, their nobel prize winners, Milton Friedman, etc. nor do they give a shit about that. And thats not really atypical.

Then those people should not matter at all in one's school choice.

Being obsessed with "face" is super representative among Asian parents, but it's a spectrum. Personally I do not have trouble in convincing my parents that Chicago is as great as Columbia by showing them rankings, but I understand that at times people do.

[TinkyKwat]

Asian-Canadian lurker here. Find this topic to be really intereseting and relevant to my interests, so I feel like I should chime in.

In regards to UChi's lay prestige, it's one of the most polarizing schools I can think of. It has so much prestige and frankly power in the academic circles. The phrase "Chicago School" makes me almost wanna puke since I heard it so many times in economic and sociology classes. On the other hand, it lacks the aura of some of its peers, particularly the schools OP mentioned. Its reach, for undergraduate studies at least, is just not as global as many of the other elite institutions. For Asians, I guess it really depends on whether they are involved in the areas of strengths UChi has or whether they have looked at USWNR rankings in the last few years when its undergrad has shot up the rankings.

As for the face-saving culture, I can definitely relate although since my parents are not footing the bill for me, my rationale for my law school future is considerably different than yours. You should try to get as much scholarship money as possible for leverage not only for the schools but for your parents. Try to get enough schollies to let you make the decision of taking out loans in your name or taking your parents' aid. Remember that the ramifications of going to the States for us are significantly larger than Americans. Coming back to Canada may be predicated on getting the right first job.

[PeanutsNJam]

Watch OP take Cornell over NYU at the same price lol.

[h3jk5h]

I am off. The strangest parents I have ever heard of. They are not representative of Asian parents generally. Trust me.

LOL. You are saying this because your parents aren't like this, and you are trying to validate your own opinion. You have absolutely no idea what a "representative" Asian parent think. I don't either. But that's beside the point, I have no idea why you decide to take this thread in this direction.

My parents are not strange, you could say they are relatively uninformed about law school and the legal profession.

Rather than calling my parents "strange" and unrepresentative, show some humanity and try to help me out. If not, that's fine. I can call your parents abnormal and weird without actually getting to know them - well that would be a little unfair, wouldn't it?

[TinkyKwat]

They do. They are the ones who shape my parents' decision to support me financially, as unreasonable as this may sound to you.

You guys think it's so easy to not give a crap and just do your own thing, and pick a school that you like, without the influence of your parents. But the sad reality is that I don't come from privilege, far from it. I don't have the luxury of disobeying my parents.

This is not an Asian thing. My parents knew how great UChicago was when I was applying. It is maybe an Asian-Canadian thing.

Regardless, I can't believe your inability to convince your parents of UChicago brand's awesomeness. Milton Friedman, Chicago School of Economics, law and economics, Nobel Prizes, etc etc. Not knowing U Chicago reflects one's ignorance about sciences generally I think.

I don't go to UChi btw.

Depends on what your circle is. My parents had a vague idea of U Chicago and knew it was a pretty well-regarded school, but their friends thought it was some state school. THeir friends don't know about law and economics, their nobel prize winners, Milton Friedman, etc. nor do they give a shit about that. And thats not really atypical.

Then those people should not matter at all in one's school choice.

Being obsessed with "face" is super representative among Asian parents, but it's a spectrum. Personally I do not have trouble in convincing my parents that Chicago is as great as Columbia by showing them rankings, but I understand that at times people do.

***do not quote below***
Asian applicants
***thanks for letting me not be kicked out of my friend circle***

The process for Asian Canadians is different than Asian internationals because we have LSAC GPAs. We are treated the same as American candidates albeit with a bit more of yield protection since we tend to stay on this side of the borders unless we can swing a big scholarship down south.

[Tls2016]

I know nothing about Canadian practice. For employment, is it necessary to work in a US biglaw firm first? Can Canadian citizens get loans for US schools?

[ihenry]

They do. They are the ones who shape my parents' decision to support me financially, as unreasonable as this may sound to you.

You guys think it's so easy to not give a crap and just do your own thing, and pick a school that you like, without the influence of your parents. But the sad reality is that I don't come from privilege, far from it. I don't have the luxury of disobeying my parents.

This is not an Asian thing. My parents knew how great UChicago was when I was applying. It is maybe an Asian-Canadian thing.

Regardless, I can't believe your inability to convince your parents of UChicago brand's awesomeness. Milton Friedman, Chicago School of Economics, law and economics, Nobel Prizes, etc etc. Not knowing U Chicago reflects one's ignorance about sciences generally I think.

I don't go to UChi btw.

Depends on what your circle is. My parents had a vague idea of U Chicago and knew it was a pretty well-regarded school, but their friends thought it was some state school. THeir friends don't know about law and economics, their nobel prize winners, Milton Friedman, etc. nor do they give a shit about that. And thats not really atypical.

Then those people should not matter at all in one's school choice.

Being obsessed with "face" is super representative among Asian parents, but it's a spectrum. Personally I do not have trouble in convincing my parents that Chicago is as great as Columbia by showing them rankings, but I understand that at times people do.

***do not quote below***
Asian applicants
***thanks for letting me not be kicked out of my friend circle***

The process for Asian Canadians is different than Asian internationals because we have LSAC GPAs. We are treated the same as American candidates albeit with a bit more of yield protection since we tend to stay on this side of the borders unless we can swing a big scholarship down south.

Oh okay, I forgot Canadians have LSAC GPAs too. But then OP should have a clearer picture in deciding which schools he has a shot in based on number predictions.

[h3jk5h]

They do. They are the ones who shape my parents' decision to support me financially, as unreasonable as this may sound to you.

You guys think it's so easy to not give a crap and just do your own thing, and pick a school that you like, without the influence of your parents. But the sad reality is that I don't come from privilege, far from it. I don't have the luxury of disobeying my parents.

This is not an Asian thing. My parents knew how great UChicago was when I was applying. It is maybe an Asian-Canadian thing.

Regardless, I can't believe your inability to convince your parents of UChicago brand's awesomeness. Milton Friedman, Chicago School of Economics, law and economics, Nobel Prizes, etc etc. Not knowing U Chicago reflects one's ignorance about sciences generally I think.

I don't go to UChi btw.

Depends on what your circle is. My parents had a vague idea of U Chicago and knew it was a pretty well-regarded school, but their friends thought it was some state school. THeir friends don't know about law and economics, their nobel prize winners, Milton Friedman, etc. nor do they give a shit about that. And thats not really atypical.

Then those people should not matter at all in one's school choice.

If you value your family the most, I wouldn't criticize you for that. Chicago is a fantastic law school so your instincts aren't wrong.
Where do you want to practice? Does it even make sense to come to the US? I know school in Canada is less expensive.

Yep, law school in Canada is less expensive (by around 20k per year). I am undecided where I want to practice. I've already gotten my acceptance from U of Toronto, but I want to keep my options open. Whether it makes sense for me to go to US is a question that I really really need to dig deep and evaluate. There's just so many factors in play. But I guess it may not matter because I may not get accepted anywhere in the States.

[TinkyKwat]

The Canadian legal market is highly protectionist. After graduation, we have to article (an apprenticeship-like position) for a legal organization before we become fully fledged lawyers. Lawyers coming from other common law countries need to convert their degrees into Canadian equivalents by taking courses and exams. That's why it is problematic for Canadian graduates of US schools because we need to first convert our degrees and then find a legal entity, usually a firm, to let us article for. Employement in US biglaw firm for these graduates is universally recommended because working in a high-level environment for a bigshot firm is the one trump card we have against Canadian law school graduates who are searching for the same articling positions.

Canadians cannot get US federal loans. They can only get Canadian federal loans, which are scaled to Canadian tuition rates (MUCH lower), Canadian commericial loans which are still considerably smaller than their US equivalents, and US commericial loans but only with a US cosigner. We need big money either from parents or from schools to make our trip down south worthwhile.

I know nothing about Canadian practice. For employment, is it necessary to work in a US biglaw firm first? Can Canadian citizens get loans for US schools?

[jbagelboy]

sorry OP. this is incredibly stupid. How old are you? Aren't you a college senior or graduate? I would tell your parents they are being stupid to focus on brands and name signaling and then make your own decision.

as a sidenote, it's interesting to me that so many asian-american families and communities assume that chasing brands (in consumer terms and in education) and perceptions of prestige to the detriment of other virtues is the best way to integrate and succeed in anglo-american culture; while it's been effective monetarily in lifting second/third generations into the upper middle class, it hasn't helped expunge damaging stereotypes about asians in society at large, and it's probably been more of a detriment. Not to mention that it gave so many of my wonderful, creative, otherwise inspired asian-american friends who chose a different path ego and self-worth issues for years

[rawrpalooza]

.

[abl]

If the OP was waitlisted at Cornell, this is all probably moot -- (s)he is in all likelihood not getting into UChicago (or Columbia or Stanford).

UChicago is, by just about all objective measures, a stronger school than Cornell for law school. Moreover, not that it's super relevant, but I'd wager that UChicago is, by most objective measures, a stronger undergraduate institution and a better overall university as well. There are obviously circles in which Cornell has more prestige than Chicago, but this is not universal. There are regional and cultural differences in how various schools are viewed wrt lay prestige and there are certainly segments of North America and the world in which the University of Chicago is viewed with more reverence than Cornell.

OP: the answer to your question is that UChicago is not only a highly reputable law school, but a reputable university. By just about all measures, it is one of the top ten law schools in the world and one of the top fifteen or 20 universities in the world. By many if not most reasonable measures, it is in the top 10 in the world. Whether your parents choose to accept this is something really nobody on this thread can tell you. Lots of people in the world have lots of irrational and/or incorrect beliefs. That obviously doesn't render those beliefs inconsequential, and so it's really a personal decision for you whether you'd prefer to go to an extraordinarily good law school (Chicago) while mildly disappointing your ill-informed parents and their ill-informed friends. I would hope that you can persuade them that Chicago is not only an incredibly good law school but an incredibly good all-around academic institution. But my personal advice would be that it's not a battle worth having until you've actually been accepted.

Incidentally, Toronto is a strong alternative option, and it's probably worth considering whether, for your goals, if going somewhere like Chicago or Columbia or Stanford is preferable. I think the schools sort out something like Stanford > Columbia > Chicago > Toronto > Cornell, but Toronto could be the best option out of the bunch if you get a better aid package and/or if you want to practice in Canada. Once again, though, I hate to say it but these are probably decisions that will be made for you by the admissions departments of these schools.

[jbagelboy]

sorry OP. this is incredibly stupid. How old are you? Aren't you a college senior or graduate? I would tell your parents they are being stupid to focus on brands and name signaling and then make your own decision.

as a sidenote, it's interesting to me that so many asian-american families and communities assume that chasing brands (in consumer terms and in education) and perceptions of prestige to the detriment of other virtues is the best way to integrate and succeed in anglo-american culture; while it's been effective monetarily in lifting second/third generations into the upper middle class, it hasn't helped expunge damaging stereotypes about asians in society at large, and it's probably been more of a detriment. Not to mention that it gave so many of my wonderful, creative, otherwise inspired asian-american friends who chose a different path ego and self-worth issues for years

This is really rude, and shows your tremendous lack of empathy. Saving "face" is so ingrained in Asian, and more specifically Chinese, culture; it is part of our reality and your mocking of OP's experience is super obnoxious. Further, given that his parents are footing the bill for his education, their opinion is important from a practical standpoint. Of course his parents are being dumb (as OP admits), but he can't just go and "make his own decision" if they don't support him.

OP, as a fellow Asian-Canadian attending law school in the US, feel free to PM me. This was certainly a consideration for me and my family (though certainly, to a lesser extent than your situation seems to be), and I would be happy to help if you need it. You may not be able to change their minds completely, but perhaps you can guide them in a more reasonable direction.

I'm not just shooting the shit or throwing out racially-tainted opinions, there's a large body of scholarship on assimilation and confirmation/security-complex in asian-american society, including variances in generational attitudes towards signaling. The fact that it's part of face-saving is not the problem, it's what's being compensated for: a by-product of a different set of (arguably) flawed priorities. You can say my comment lacks pathos, sure, and I'd be gentler with an 18 year old trying to make a college decision, but this is graduate school and its totally different IMO. If I offended anyone, I do apologize.

[radient]

lol at telling your parents they're being stupid before trying to get them to help with tuition.

OP the only thing I could think to add is that if they don't buy the us news ranks alone you could try to get them to look at other, similar material like the vault/ATL ranks, princeton review stuff, lists of prominent alumni or even pages of u chicago alumni at prestigious firms. That might not give u chicago the same name cache as some of the other schools you mention with their friends but it should relieve any doubt that it's a great school

[jnwa]

As a fellow Canadian...African Canadian whos mother thinks hes crazy for choosing Mich with a full ride over "COLUMBIA", i would say if you think you want to practice in Canada, go to U of Toronto. 170k in tuition(sticker at chi) would be like 240k in canadian dollars. Are your parents gunna foot that bill?

U of T is the best school in Canada and only costs about 90k canadian for 3 years. Plus if you go to the US and come back to canada youll have to go through the NCA process and then article after. Unless youre a candidate for the Ruby at Chicago it makes little sense to go to the US and then try and come back to Canada to work. The only way it would kind of make sense would be if you went to HYS and wanted to do academia.

Im planning on going to the US but im also planning on staying after i graduate and im not paying tuition, if not i would have taken my acceptance to the University of Toronto and been happy with it. If youre in at U of T, you should do that.

[rpupkin]

As everyone else has pointed out, your parents' perception of University of Chicago does not line up with anything that matters in real life. But if your parents are paying your tuition, and if you aren't particularly drawn to Chicago, then you may as well go to one of the ten or so peer schools that your parents think of as being sufficiently prestigious.

[SD619]

Lol op imagine your parents face when you end up getting rejected or waitlisted, which is most likely what's going to happen to you.

Interview doesn't mean acceptance.

Ps Carl Sagan went to UChicago and so did justice Stevens- I bet your folks haven't heard of them either

[TinkyKwat]

Lol op imagine your parents face when you end up getting rejected or waitlisted, which is most likely what's going to happen to you.

Interview doesn't mean acceptance.

Ps Carl Sagan went to UChicago and so did justice Stevens- I bet your folks haven't heard of them either

No shit, we're Canadians.

[SD619]

Lol op imagine your parents face when you end up getting rejected or waitlisted, which is most likely what's going to happen to you.

Interview doesn't mean acceptance.

Ps Carl Sagan went to UChicago and so did justice Stevens- I bet your folks haven't heard of them either

No shit, we're Canadians.

Sorry to hear that Canadians don't have astrophysics

[TinkyKwat]

Lol op imagine your parents face when you end up getting rejected or waitlisted, which is most likely what's going to happen to you.

Interview doesn't mean acceptance.

Ps Carl Sagan went to UChicago and so did justice Stevens- I bet your folks haven't heard of them either

No shit, we're Canadians.

Sorry to hear that Canadians don't have astrophysics

I meant for Stevens. As for Sagan...eh.