Choosing law school for non-native speaker. WCL vs NYLS Forum

[dangthinh121]

If you are willing to work hard to become a lawyer, then you should be will do the easiest thing you can do to improve your chances of being a lawyer: studying for the LSAT properly and getting a score that will get you into stronger schools.

Thanks for your time for reading and comment . It took me 4 months to prepare LSAt and it seems I have already maxed out my ability . I understood that getting J.d required jobs from those schools are challenging, but I just want to try it . I understood retake the Lsat is the best option , but I want to attend law school this year.

1. Is there actually any pressing reason for you to attend law school this year, other than "I just want to"?

2. "I just want to try it" is a terrible attitude to a decision that will cost you three years and hundreds and thousands of dollars, at the end of which you will likely be left with no legal job from a school like NYLS.

3. That 3.89 GPA is too good to waste. You have not nearly exhausted your potential when all you've done is 4 months' preparation for LSAT and a single take at 156.

You have made a very great point in the term that 4 months is not enough to maximize the potential of Lsat score . However , I really want to go to law school this year . I also heard a lot of positive comments about Nyls . I just need to know whether the advantage of location outweighs the rank in legal field . Thanks

Once you get out of the T14, location matters a lot more than rank. But what matters more than both of those is employment numbers -- which aren't that good for either NYLS or WCL. Median salaries are also not a very good indicator because lawyer salaries tend to be very high or very low, which ends up having a decent looking median, but that is far from the reality for most grads. You can probably break $100k if you are in the top 10% or so of your class, but if you are at or below the median of your class, you are going to be hard pressed to find a job that pays $60k.

What you said is exactly the same as my perspective . I belive that the school's prestige gives you a huge advantage for first job. After that, it becomes less and less important . I also appreciate your advice that location should be considered more important than ranking . Ranking fluctuates every years, and different in variety of sources. I'm just wondering whether the corporate law or real estate is more appropriate for non native speakers, as well as New York market. My undergraduate was doubled major in Accounting and Finance .

[squirtlesquad14]

If you are willing to work hard to become a lawyer, then you should be will do the easiest thing you can do to improve your chances of being a lawyer: studying for the LSAT properly and getting a score that will get you into stronger schools.

Thanks for your time for reading and comment . It took me 4 months to prepare LSAt and it seems I have already maxed out my ability . I understood that getting J.d required jobs from those schools are challenging, but I just want to try it . I understood retake the Lsat is the best option , but I want to attend law school this year.

1. Is there actually any pressing reason for you to attend law school this year, other than "I just want to"?

2. "I just want to try it" is a terrible attitude to a decision that will cost you three years and hundreds and thousands of dollars, at the end of which you will likely be left with no legal job from a school like NYLS.

3. That 3.89 GPA is too good to waste. You have not nearly exhausted your potential when all you've done is 4 months' preparation for LSAT and a single take at 156.

You have made a very great point in the term that 4 months is not enough to maximize the potential of Lsat score . However , I really want to go to law school this year . I also heard a lot of positive comments about Nyls . I just need to know whether the advantage of location outweighs the rank in legal field . Thanks

Once you get out of the T14, location matters a lot more than rank. But what matters more than both of those is employment numbers -- which aren't that good for either NYLS or WCL. Median salaries are also not a very good indicator because lawyer salaries tend to be very high or very low, which ends up having a decent looking median, but that is far from the reality for most grads. You can probably break $100k if you are in the top 10% or so of your class, but if you are at or below the median of your class, you are going to be hard pressed to find a job that pays $60k.

What you said is exactly the same as my perspective . I belive that the school's prestige gives you a huge advantage for first job. After that, it becomes less and less important . I also appreciate your advice that location should be considered more important than ranking . Ranking fluctuates every years, and different in variety of sources. I'm just wondering whether the corporate law or real estate is more appropriate for non native speakers, as well as New York market. My undergraduate was doubled major in Accounting and Finance .

As a 0L you can take this with a grain of salt, but I really think what area of law will be better determined by your interests once you are in law school (obviously leaning corporate would make sense with your UG background, but you never know what may pique your interest). As far as being a non-native speaker, I wouldn't imagine there is that big of a difference whether you are in a board room or a court room -- you are going to need a solid grasp of the language, and be able to speak and think on your feet.

[dangthinh121]

I appreciate your advice so much . It just clears up my mind . I wish you best luck in your career

[Tls2016]

I appreciate your advice so much . It just clears up my mind . I wish you best luck in your career

Please don't go to NYLS. It's basically a scam law school that costs as much as Harvard. They are just taking your money.
You could do better. You should want to do better for your career and yourself. You sound smart and capable if you improved so much in 4 months and you have a high GPA. I'm pretty much begging you to take more time, study hard and reapply. I think you can still do better and you sound ambitious. Dont sell yourself short.

[dangthinh121]

I appreciate your advice so much . It just clears up my mind . I wish you best luck in your career

Please don't go to NYLS. It's basically a scam law school that costs as much as Harvard. They are just taking your money.
You could do better. You should want to do better for your career and yourself. You sound smart and capable if you improved so much in 4 months and you have a high GPA. I'm pretty much begging you to take more time, study hard and reapply. I think you can still do better and you sound ambitious. Dont sell yourself short.

I appreciate your compliment and it seems I perhaps make the wrong decision now. I know their job prospect is not pretty bright; however, I believe there are many factors to decide your legal success. I am in wait list in Cardozo and hopefully I can get in. Have you ever heard the reputation of American University Washington College of Law? Does the school have the national prestige?
Sincerely,

[heythatslife]

I appreciate your advice so much . It just clears up my mind . I wish you best luck in your career

Please don't go to NYLS. It's basically a scam law school that costs as much as Harvard. They are just taking your money.
You could do better. You should want to do better for your career and yourself. You sound smart and capable if you improved so much in 4 months and you have a high GPA. I'm pretty much begging you to take more time, study hard and reapply. I think you can still do better and you sound ambitious. Dont sell yourself short.

I appreciate your compliment and it seems I perhaps make the wrong decision now. I know their job prospect is not pretty bright; however, I believe there are many factors to decide your legal success. I am in wait list in Cardozo and hopefully I can get in. Have you ever heard the reputation of American University Washington College of Law? Does the school have the national prestige?
Sincerely,

Their job prospect being "not pretty bright" is a vast understatement. Your goals, corporate law or (I'm assuming high-profile) real estate practice in NY, pretty much require you to start in biglaw; NYLS's big firm placement is 6.3% according to LST. AU is also in that ballpark. Hard to draw the exact line but national prestige probably disappears around T25, and certainly AU doesn't benefit from any.

Going to law school this year given the acceptances you have would a terrible, terrible idea and should not be justified on the ground that you simply feel like it. Why anyone who studied finance thinks this is a rational choice is beyond me. But you seem to have made your mind up, so whatever.

[FlowBro]

I appreciate your advice so much . It just clears up my mind . I wish you best luck in your career

Please don't go to NYLS. It's basically a scam law school that costs as much as Harvard. They are just taking your money.
You could do better. You should want to do better for your career and yourself. You sound smart and capable if you improved so much in 4 months and you have a high GPA. I'm pretty much begging you to take more time, study hard and reapply. I think you can still do better and you sound ambitious. Dont sell yourself short.

I appreciate your compliment and it seems I perhaps make the wrong decision now. I know their job prospect is not pretty bright; however, I believe there are many factors to decide your legal success. I am in wait list in Cardozo and hopefully I can get in. Have you ever heard the reputation of American University Washington College of Law? Does the school have the national prestige?
Sincerely,

I don't think you are getting the point here. RETAKE RETAKE RETAKE

[cheesy143]

You seem to have your mind set. No matter how many people tell you it is a huge mistake you keep justifying it and ignoring practical advice. If you wanted your ideas validated you came to wrong place. I don't know how else to reiterate the huge mistake you're making so whatever good luck....

[rdawkins28]

Based on the name, Vietnamese? I've known and worked with quite a few Asian and African American lawyers. Send me a PM if you're interested in a non-BL, non-T14, perspective.

[pterodactyls]

I mean, if I had to choose a law school from this list, I would choose Syracuse or Albany.

I think there is a big difference between T2/T3 and unranked/T4. Though none are great options, I think you would have better job prospects at Syracuse or Albany rather than Touro or NYLS.

But like many have said, if it was me personally, I would choose none. The market for lawyers is over-saturated and the only way you can really be sure that you will get a job is to go to a T14 or T20.

[dangthinh121]

I appreciate your advice so much . It just clears up my mind . I wish you best luck in your career

Please don't go to NYLS. It's basically a scam law school that costs as much as Harvard. They are just taking your money.
You could do better. You should want to do better for your career and yourself. You sound smart and capable if you improved so much in 4 months and you have a high GPA. I'm pretty much begging you to take more time, study hard and reapply. I think you can still do better and you sound ambitious. Dont sell yourself short.

I appreciate your compliment and it seems I perhaps make the wrong decision now. I know their job prospect is not pretty bright; however, I believe there are many factors to decide your legal success. I am in wait list in Cardozo and hopefully I can get in. Have you ever heard the reputation of American University Washington College of Law? Does the school have the national prestige?
Sincerely,

Their job prospect being "not pretty bright" is a vast understatement. Your goals, corporate law or (I'm assuming high-profile) real estate practice in NY, pretty much require you to start in biglaw; NYLS's big firm placement is 6.3% according to LST. AU is also in that ballpark. Hard to draw the exact line but national prestige probably disappears around T25, and certainly AU doesn't benefit from any.

Going to law school this year given the acceptances you have would a terrible, terrible idea and should not be justified on the ground that you simply feel like it. Why anyone who studied finance thinks this is a rational choice is beyond me. But you seem to have made your mind up, so whatever.

It's true that going to law school this year with those acceptance offers seems to be terrible decision . However, every decision has their own risk . Living in New York is always my dream, and I'm willing to take the great riskness to make it becomes true. I forgot to mention I'm now in wait list of Fordham . And it perhaps can change the game if I am able to get in

[dangthinh121]

Based on the name, Vietnamese? I've known and worked with quite a few Asian and African American lawyers. Send me a PM if you're interested in a non-BL, non-T14, perspective.

I just pm you and yes, I'm Vietnamese .

[dangthinh121]

I mean, if I had to choose a law school from this list, I would choose Syracuse or Albany.

I think there is a big difference between T2/T3 and unranked/T4. Though none are great options, I think you would have better job prospects at Syracuse or Albany rather than Touro or NYLS.

But like many have said, if it was me personally, I would choose none. The market for lawyers is over-saturated and the only way you can really be sure that you will get a job is to go to a T14 or T20.

I know those schools have not much difference in job prospect, but I love Nyc and I want to study in there . As long as I can study and work in nyc, I'm satisfied .

[dangthinh121]

You seem to have your mind set. No matter how many people tell you it is a huge mistake you keep justifying it and ignoring practical advice. If you wanted your ideas validated you came to wrong place. I don't know how else to reiterate the huge mistake you're making so whatever good luck....

It's understandable that those advice in TlS forum is very practical and useful . You guys seem to have much more experience than me . I know my decision may be wrong , but I think I can change it . Thanks for your advice

[Tls2016]

There are many ways to live in NYC without going to law school. Why not move, study and then retake.

[reasonableperson]

OP, do not do this. I beg you.

[eagle2a]

bro, retake the LSAT and do better, the schools you're looking at are all very very shitty

[Unfathomableruckus]

I LMAOd on the BART when OP said the bit about "I am being a permanent resident". OP, you are not having a 3.8. No no no. In fact, you are not having a 156 either.

[jrass]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

[dangthinh121]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

[A. Nony Mouse]

I LMAOd on the BART when OP said the bit about "I am being a permanent resident". OP, you are not having a 3.8. No no no. In fact, you are not having a 156 either.

Don't be rude.

[zot1]

Based on the info you provided, go to NYLS.

Make sure you do the best you can--if your first semester grades are not great, reassess and improve.

Network. Like crazy.

Good luck!

[Clearly]

I mean, if I had to choose a law school from this list, I would choose Syracuse or Albany.

I think there is a big difference between T2/T3 and unranked/T4. Though none are great options, I think you would have better job prospects at Syracuse or Albany rather than Touro or NYLS.

But like many have said, if it was me personally, I would choose none. The market for lawyers is over-saturated and the only way you can really be sure that you will get a job is to go to a T14 or T20.

I know those schools have not much difference in job prospect, but I love Nyc and I want to study in there . As long as I can study and work in nyc, I'm satisfied .

Here is the big problem. You seem to think if you go to nyls you'll get to work in New York. The reality is you'll likely be unemployed in New York. The valedictorian of my high school ended up graduating from nyls, entirely unemployed and eventually pursued a masters, and he spoke perfect English, had a great work ethic and was quite intelligent.

[Unfathomableruckus]

I LMAOd on the BART when OP said the bit about "I am being a permanent resident". OP, you are not having a 3.8. No no no. In fact, you are not having a 156 either.

Don't be rude.

Ok sorry but I think this person is telling lies.

[jrass]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

Language is possibly more important in transactional than in lit. You don't need to understand every word to understand a case. In transactional people fight for weeks over one word. In addition, most transactional law happens at places that wouldn't hire the valedictorian from these schools. You need to understand that your odds of being able to work hard to repay your debt are much, much lower than casino odds and on par with the odds you will be a 20 million dollar a film movie star.