How much does it matter where you go in the bottom of the T14 Forum

[mornincounselor]

I just know that if you search through mylsn you will find students who got into Michigan and UVA with lower than average stats, and when you click on their profile they are always from in-state.

Now maybe these students also ED'd or something but I see single green dots in an otherwise pool of yellow.

EDIT: In fact here (http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1314) is an example of multiple Virginia in-state people getting accepted over a URM student with identical stats from out of state.

[Clearly]

I just know that if you search through mylsn you will find students who got into Michigan and UVA with lower than average stats, and when you click on their profile they are always from in-state.

Now maybe these students also ED'd or something but I see single green dots in an otherwise pool of yellow.

EDIT: In fact here (http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1314) is an example of multiple Virginia in-state people getting accepted over a URM student with identical stats from out of state.

UVA has to maintain 40% in-state.

[mornincounselor]

UVA has to maintain 40% in-state.

So if someone (like the poster on the previous page) wanted to move to a new hometown (and for the sake of the hypothetical live there long enough to get in-state recognition) prior to applying to schools I maintain that Michigan and Virginia are the best choices. That's the "bonus" I was talking about, not scholarship per se.

[Clemenceau]

This discussion of picking your hometown is dumb. You dont pick your hometown. Moving to ann arbor 12 months before going to michigan doesn't make you a local.

[BiglawAssociate]

Go for the $$$/scholarship. Biglaw is pure flame as is law school rankings. The only thing that matters is $$$$$. The only practicing attorneys who care about any of this kind of shit (the minutiae of law school rankings, biglaw, prestige) are dumb poors who have nothing else going for them.

And most people who go into biglaw only do so because they are dumb poors who took out a boat load of loans.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Go for the $$$/scholarship. Biglaw is pure flame as is law school rankings. The only thing that matters is $$$$$. The only practicing attorneys who care about any of this kind of shit (the minutiae of law school rankings, biglaw, prestige) are dumb poors who have nothing else going for them.

And most people who go into biglaw only do so because they are dumb poors who took out a boat load of loans.

Oh goody, you're back.

[TheSpanishMain]

And DC biglaw is far more competitive than even NYC. You really need to be IP secure or like a war hero or something, in addition to getting honors at a T14, to really be competitive for DC Biglaw.

I don't disagree that DC BigLaw is competitive, but this is an exaggeration, at least based on my experience going through OCI at GULC. It's competitive, yes, but there were also plenty of people with median grades who got DC offers. The people who really seemed to be at a disadvantage were K-JDs. DC firms really seemed to gravitate towards those with decent work experience, particularly those who had worked in government or in the military. But it's not like you need to be a top 5% Silver Star recipient with a chemical engineering degree.

[Br3v]

I just know that if you search through mylsn you will find students who got into Michigan and UVA with lower than average stats, and when you click on their profile they are always from in-state.

Now maybe these students also ED'd or something but I see single green dots in an otherwise pool of yellow.

EDIT: In fact here (http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1314) is an example of multiple Virginia in-state people getting accepted over a URM student with identical stats from out of state.

UVA has to maintain 40% in-state.

Splitting hairs here but they don't have to, it's basically self-policing so that the Commonwealth doesn't actually make them have to

Carry on

[BigZuck]

Go for the $$$/scholarship. Biglaw is pure flame as is law school rankings. The only thing that matters is $$$$$. The only practicing attorneys who care about any of this kind of shit (the minutiae of law school rankings, biglaw, prestige) are dumb poors who have nothing else going for them.

And most people who go into biglaw only do so because they are dumb poors who took out a boat load of loans.

Oh goody, you're back.

If only someone had the power to nuke his account into orbit

Maybe we can confine him to his own cage somewhere? Could be fun.

[TLSModBot]

And DC biglaw is far more competitive than even NYC. You really need to be IP secure or like a war hero or something, in addition to getting honors at a T14, to really be competitive for DC Biglaw.

I don't disagree that DC BigLaw is competitive, but this is an exaggeration, at least based on my experience going through OCI at GULC. It's competitive, yes, but there were also plenty of people with median grades who got DC offers. The people who really seemed to be at a disadvantage were K-JDs. DC firms really seemed to gravitate towards those with decent work experience, particularly those who had worked in government or in the military. But it's not like you need to be a top 5% Silver Star recipient with a chemical engineering degree.

Agreed. It's more competitive than NY in that there are fewer firms and fewer positions at most DC offices than their NY counterpart, but there are enough DC-centered firms (WilmerHale, WillCo, Hogan, and Crowell to name a few) or non-DC centered firms with huge DC offices that it's not that crazy competitive. If median-ish people at GULC can do it, then median-ish at Penn, UVA, Michigan, and above all can.

If you must have DC, *maybe* choose GULC over Cornell or NU but it really feels dirty saying that so maybe don't.

[First Offense]

I agree with barkschool, and would only add that the biggest difference maker would be geography. Go to school close to where you want to work if possible.

I would also like to add "make sure where you want to work is close to where you grew up...preferably your home town."

People with no ties to Chicago can't just go to UChi and expect to waltz into a Chicago job. NYC is less picky about where you're from, as they just want warm bodies with high grades. But everywhere else prefers the local connection. Best to align your hometown/law school/bar exam as close as possible to optimize your chances.

I'd rather die than be stuck in Colorado Springs. I absolutely hate it here. I'll take my chances with the DC market

I would learn to tolerate Denver/Boulder if I were you.

DC is probably the worst place in the country to be looking for a job as a fresh graduate. FedGov still is barely hiring entry-level people due to the sequester. And DC biglaw is far more competitive than even NYC. You really need to be IP secure or like a war hero or something, in addition to getting honors at a T14, to really be competitive for DC Biglaw.

I mean - you're overstating how tough DC is by just a smidge. It's a big market, but it does draw the top candidates from the top schools. If you're top quarter you have a good shot though, and top 10% is probably pretty close to a lock.

[TheOnePercent]

Wait what happened to Michigan? I thought they were still a peer with UVA/Duke/Penn

Michigan's biglaw placement is atrocious - worse than all the T14 save for Georgetttown and Yale (which isn't really comparable w/ all their clerkships and snowflake non-firm placements).

http://tippingthescales.com/2015/02/the ... w-schools/

[TheOnePercent]

Wait what happened to Michigan? I thought they were still a peer with UVA/Duke/Penn

Michigan's biglaw placement is atrocious - worse than all the T14 save for Georgetttown and Yale (which isn't really comparable w/ all their clerkships and snowflake non-firm placements).

http://tippingthescales.com/2015/02/the ... w-schools/

Not even trolling here, would group schools:
Y/S/H
C/C/N/P
V/D/B
N/C/M
G

If you're aiming for BL, I think the cohorts of C/C/N/P and V/D/B/N/C/M are much more homogeneous than mag-ranking obsessed 0L's come to believe.

[tyrant_flycatcher]

Wait what happened to Michigan? I thought they were still a peer with UVA/Duke/Penn

Michigan's biglaw placement is atrocious - worse than all the T14 save for Georgetttown and Yale (which isn't really comparable w/ all their clerkships and snowflake non-firm placements).

http://tippingthescales.com/2015/02/the ... w-schools/

Not even trolling here, would group schools:
Y/S/H
C/C/N/P
V/D/B
N/C/M
G

If you're aiming for BL, I think the cohorts of C/C/N/P and V/D/B/N/C/M are much more homogeneous than mag-ranking obsessed 0L's come to believe.

Im biased but if you want NY biglaw Cornell probably has its own space between CCNP and NMG

[umichman]

I agree with barkschool, and would only add that the biggest difference maker would be geography. Go to school close to where you want to work if possible.

I would also like to add "make sure where you want to work is close to where you grew up...preferably your home town."

People with no ties to Chicago can't just go to UChi and expect to waltz into a Chicago job. NYC is less picky about where you're from, as they just want warm bodies with high grades. But everywhere else prefers the local connection. Best to align your hometown/law school/bar exam as close as possible to optimize your chances.

This is just not true for chicago. lots of people without prior chicago connects get jobs in chicago from all the chi/n and even m

[Companion Cube]

I agree with barkschool, and would only add that the biggest difference maker would be geography. Go to school close to where you want to work if possible.

I would also like to add "make sure where you want to work is close to where you grew up...preferably your home town."

People with no ties to Chicago can't just go to UChi and expect to waltz into a Chicago job. NYC is less picky about where you're from, as they just want warm bodies with high grades. But everywhere else prefers the local connection. Best to align your hometown/law school/bar exam as close as possible to optimize your chances.

This is just not true for chicago. lots of people without prior chicago connects get jobs in chicago from all the chi/n and even m

It happens but that doesn't mean you can just throw out "ties don't matter in Chicago!" They absolutely do. If you don't have ties to Chicago, yes, getting hired is possible, but you do start behind. This is true for anywhere, even NY, if not a bit less so than other places.

[Br3v]

I agree with barkschool, and would only add that the biggest difference maker would be geography. Go to school close to where you want to work if possible.

I would also like to add "make sure where you want to work is close to where you grew up...preferably your home town."

People with no ties to Chicago can't just go to UChi and expect to waltz into a Chicago job. NYC is less picky about where you're from, as they just want warm bodies with high grades. But everywhere else prefers the local connection. Best to align your hometown/law school/bar exam as close as possible to optimize your chances.

This is just not true for chicago. lots of people without prior chicago connects get jobs in chicago from all the chi/n and even m

It happens but that doesn't mean you can just throw out "ties don't matter in Chicago!" They absolutely do. If you don't have ties to Chicago, yes, getting hired is possible, but you do start behind. This is true for anywhere, even NY, if not a bit less so than other places.

It's certainly not true for NY, and it's probably only marginally true for Chi from UChi

[BigZuck]

You guys should whip out your anecdotes so that we can all compare them.

For science.

[Lacepiece23]

Go for the $$$/scholarship. Biglaw is pure flame as is law school rankings. The only thing that matters is $$$$$. The only practicing attorneys who care about any of this kind of shit (the minutiae of law school rankings, biglaw, prestige)

This part was actually true.

[JCougar]

I agree with barkschool, and would only add that the biggest difference maker would be geography. Go to school close to where you want to work if possible.

I would also like to add "make sure where you want to work is close to where you grew up...preferably your home town."

People with no ties to Chicago can't just go to UChi and expect to waltz into a Chicago job. NYC is less picky about where you're from, as they just want warm bodies with high grades. But everywhere else prefers the local connection. Best to align your hometown/law school/bar exam as close as possible to optimize your chances.

This is just not true for chicago. lots of people without prior chicago connects get jobs in chicago from all the chi/n and even m

Define "lots of people."

There's plenty of stories on here about having to bid heavily on NYC even from U Chi with no Chicago connections. I personally know people that got screwed by this. That doesn't mean no one without Chicago ties will get a Chicago job from Chicago's OCI. But it means that local connections mean something significant, even at the higher-ranking schools.

It makes sense. If you're going to be building business as a lawyer (which, after your first 1-2 years, is pretty much one of the most important aspects of your job), you're a more worthwhile asset to the firm if you grew up in that city and have tons of connections from your family/grade school/high school.

[Emperor of Ice-Cream]

Wait what happened to Michigan? I thought they were still a peer with UVA/Duke/Penn

Michigan's biglaw placement is atrocious - worse than all the T14 save for Georgetttown and Yale (which isn't really comparable w/ all their clerkships and snowflake non-firm placements).

http://tippingthescales.com/2015/02/the ... w-schools/

Michigan 2L here. Of course there are a few people w/o jobs, but the overwhelming majority of OCI participants last cycle (and the cycle before) have BL SAs lined up all over the US. Michigan's geographical reach is excellent, especially compared to its peers. And don't forget that about 15-20% of the class is aiming exclusively for Gov't Hons or PI; I know this isn't the case at Penn or Cornell or Northwestern.

If you're going to compare Michigan with other schools, consider all the relevant factors.

[BigZuck]

Wait what happened to Michigan? I thought they were still a peer with UVA/Duke/Penn

Michigan's biglaw placement is atrocious - worse than all the T14 save for Georgetttown and Yale (which isn't really comparable w/ all their clerkships and snowflake non-firm placements).

http://tippingthescales.com/2015/02/the ... w-schools/

Michigan 2L here. Of course there are a few people w/o jobs, but the overwhelming majority of OCI participants last cycle (and the cycle before) have BL SAs lined up all over the US. Michigan's geographical reach is excellent, especially compared to its peers. And don't forget that about 15-20% of the class is aiming exclusively for Gov't Hons or PI; I know this isn't the case at Penn or Cornell or Northwestern.

If you're going to compare Michigan with other schools, consider all the relevant factors.

Backup the "overwhelming majority" thing. Someone on here recently said something like 2/3rds of people who participated in OCI got big law, which is bad and contradicts what you're saying. Are you lying to me or were they? I don't appreciate being lied to, and I will be requesting a perma-ban for the liar so tread carefully here and make sure you back up what you're claiming.

[Emperor of Ice-Cream]

OH NO A TOUGH GUY.

You know a 2L doesn't have official stats, so you'll have to settle for anecdotal evidence. In my section of 80, maybe 5-8 struck out. Friends in other sections say their numbers were about the same. I have friends going to MTO, W&C, etc., and to firms from coast to coast.

[BigZuck]

OH NO A TOUGH GUY.

You know a 2L doesn't have official stats, so you'll have to settle for anecdotal evidence. In my section of 80, maybe 5-8 struck out. Friends in other sections say their numbers were about the same. I have friends going to MTO, W&C, etc., and to firms from coast to coast.

Dude don't say overwhelming majority while simultaneously pulling a declarative statement directly from your butt. The other dude at least said it was career services info.

Nony- please nuke this Michigan apologist/liar into orbit

[Emperor of Ice-Cream]

Are you stupid or just dumb? 75/80 is an overwhelming majority.