Is This a Bad Strategy? Forum

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Is This a Bad Strategy?

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:48 am

Academia is basically just a HUGELY risky proposition. Saying it's easier to get academia in comm than in law is a little bit like saying it's easier to survive ebola than legionnaire's disease.

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Re: Is This a Bad Strategy?

Post by 20170322 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:25 pm

Sure, academia is a shit show. I'm just asking if there is anything inherently problematic with doing a funded PhD program (20k or under of debt for living expenses) and then doing law if I strike out.

Paul Campos

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Re: Is This a Bad Strategy?

Post by Paul Campos » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:02 pm

What's inherently problematic about it is that you'll be going to law school not because you want to be a lawyer, but because you can't think of anything else to do with your credentials. Also, the academic track is hard enough without starting it with a bailout plan already in mind.

If you go down a particular grad school track, you need to research it thoroughly ahead of time, and figure out how not to take out any debt (This isn't as straightforward as it sounds. Lots of people who are "fully funded" end up with tens of thousands of dollars of debt by the time they finish or drop out).

Forget about legal academia, that's a nonstarter.

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MistakenGenius

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emkay625

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Re: Is This a Bad Strategy?

Post by emkay625 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:50 pm

SweetTort wrote:Sure, academia is a shit show. I'm just asking if there is anything inherently problematic with doing a funded PhD program (20k or under of debt for living expenses) and then doing law if I strike out.
There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but keep in mind your debt isn't subsidized anymore - it will be accruing interest the whole time. So even if you take out 8K or so a year for living expenses, the interest on that is going to rack up by the time you get done with law school.

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banjo

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Re: Is This a Bad Strategy?

Post by banjo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:43 am

SweetTort wrote:Sure, academia is a shit show. I'm just asking if there is anything inherently problematic with doing a funded PhD program (20k or under of debt for living expenses) and then doing law if I strike out.
This was exactly my thinking when I started a funded PhD. I dropped out a few years later and went to law school. Honestly, I regret my PhD years. I basically wasted several years of my life--I didn't save, I didn't learn anything useful, I didn't develop my career, and the small network I built is completely useless in law. I watched my friends make strides in their careers, which stung a little. I was actually lucky to get out early; some people sink 5-6 years into their graduate degrees before quitting.

I also realized how absurd the law school bailout plan is. It can take years to do a serious job search on the academic market. It might take you 6 or 7 years to finish your PhD, after which you'll probably do a couple one-year VAPs or postdocs to make yourself marketable. If you're lucky, you'll get a TT job in the middle of nowhere. Or maybe you'll settle for high school or community college. If you're unlucky, you'll start law school at 30 or 31 and become a junior associate at 34. If you shoot for legal academia, that may add couple more years in clerkships/fellowships, and even then, there's no guarantee. Hardly a fallback plan.

If the PhD is really your passion, go for it. Just wanted to add my input as someone who's been in your shoes.

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Re: Is This a Bad Strategy?

Post by 20170322 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:11 am

banjo wrote:
SweetTort wrote:Sure, academia is a shit show. I'm just asking if there is anything inherently problematic with doing a funded PhD program (20k or under of debt for living expenses) and then doing law if I strike out.
This was exactly my thinking when I started a funded PhD. I dropped out a few years later and went to law school. Honestly, I regret my PhD years. I basically wasted several years of my life--I didn't save, I didn't learn anything useful, I didn't develop my career, and the small network I built is completely useless in law. I watched my friends make strides in their careers, which stung a little. I was actually lucky to get out early; some people sink 5-6 years into their graduate degrees before quitting.

I also realized how absurd the law school bailout plan is. It can take years to do a serious job search on the academic market. It might take you 6 or 7 years to finish your PhD, after which you'll probably do a couple one-year VAPs or postdocs to make yourself marketable. If you're lucky, you'll get a TT job in the middle of nowhere. Or maybe you'll settle for high school or community college. If you're unlucky, you'll start law school at 30 or 31 and become a junior associate at 34. If you shoot for legal academia, that may add couple more years in clerkships/fellowships, and even then, there's no guarantee. Hardly a fallback plan.

If the PhD is really your passion, go for it. Just wanted to add my input as someone who's been in your shoes.


Would it be a bad idea to go into a masters program (funded), see how I feel, and then adjust?

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banjo

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Re: Is This a Bad Strategy?

Post by banjo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:38 am

SweetTort wrote:
banjo wrote:
SweetTort wrote:Sure, academia is a shit show. I'm just asking if there is anything inherently problematic with doing a funded PhD program (20k or under of debt for living expenses) and then doing law if I strike out.
This was exactly my thinking when I started a funded PhD. I dropped out a few years later and went to law school. Honestly, I regret my PhD years. I basically wasted several years of my life--I didn't save, I didn't learn anything useful, I didn't develop my career, and the small network I built is completely useless in law. I watched my friends make strides in their careers, which stung a little. I was actually lucky to get out early; some people sink 5-6 years into their graduate degrees before quitting.

I also realized how absurd the law school bailout plan is. It can take years to do a serious job search on the academic market. It might take you 6 or 7 years to finish your PhD, after which you'll probably do a couple one-year VAPs or postdocs to make yourself marketable. If you're lucky, you'll get a TT job in the middle of nowhere. Or maybe you'll settle for high school or community college. If you're unlucky, you'll start law school at 30 or 31 and become a junior associate at 34. If you shoot for legal academia, that may add couple more years in clerkships/fellowships, and even then, there's no guarantee. Hardly a fallback plan.

If the PhD is really your passion, go for it. Just wanted to add my input as someone who's been in your shoes.


Would it be a bad idea to go into a masters program (funded), see how I feel, and then adjust?
A funded master's could work out really well. You'll get a feel for academia, but there isn't the same expectation that you'll stay. You'll also get a better sense of whether your research interests mesh well with the kinds of things you see in law review articles.

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