Michigan ($$) vs. USC (full ride) Forum

[Kinky John]

Some of my emails went unanswered, and the ones that were answered took a relatively long time to get a response. No alumni/admissions officers have reached out, which tells me that I am an easily replaceable candidate according to them. I want to be at a school that wants ME to be there.

Additionally, I'm going to go ahead and say that my ability to get into these schools, receive these scholarships, and negotiate has answered any questions regarding my intelligence. You are not required to respond to my post. If you are not interested in this post or do not agree with it, that is completely fine. I respectfully ask you to swallow your rude comments, or spill them onto some other tortured soul going through this process.

I was busting your balls. This post helps explain things

Like Tiago said it's a small difference so if you liked Ann Arbor more, fine.

[PeanutsNJam]

Oh, and Cornell gave me $40k/yr, not 50. So THANK GOD that doesn't place me in the realm of idiocy.

We'll be the judge of that, thank you.

What's the reason for eliminating Cornell? Maybe we can help convince you it's ok

Edit: recruiting process?

Some of my emails went unanswered, and the ones that were answered took a relatively long time to get a response. No alumni/admissions officers have reached out, which tells me that I am an easily replaceable candidate according to them. I want to be at a school that wants ME to be there.

Additionally, I'm going to go ahead and say that my ability to get into these schools, receive these scholarships, and negotiate has answered any questions regarding my intelligence. You are not required to respond to my post. If you are not interested in this post or do not agree with it, that is completely fine. I respectfully ask you to swallow your rude comments, or spill them onto some other tortured soul going through this process.

1.) Any admissions outreach is mostly courtesy and disingenuous salesmanship. If anything, Cornell is being frank and doesn't beat around the bush with things like this.

2.) That's a pretty entitled attitude, only being willing to go to a school that "really wants you". Michigan isn't going to be any more heartbroken than Cornell if you decide law school isn't for you. You're seriously not considering Cornell because they didn't pay you enough attention?

3.) You got into these schools/scholarships because your GPA and LSAT are within acceptable ranges, neither of which are a testament to your intelligence. You may well be very smart, but your #'s don't prove anything. Don't assume you're superior to sticker-paying compatriots, or people who attend lower ranked schools. Similarly, you're not intrinsically inferior to those with greater scholarships/attend higher ranked schools.

People here telling you Cornell is a good choice are actually giving an honest, objective opinion. Michigan's employment numbers have been dropping; Cornell's have been going up. Michigan at 30k/year is not a bad choice and is a very good outcome, but nobody here is being rude.

[Nmsx8]

Oh, and Cornell gave me $40k/yr, not 50. So THANK GOD that doesn't place me in the realm of idiocy.

We'll be the judge of that, thank you.

What's the reason for eliminating Cornell? Maybe we can help convince you it's ok

Edit: recruiting process?

Some of my emails went unanswered, and the ones that were answered took a relatively long time to get a response. No alumni/admissions officers have reached out, which tells me that I am an easily replaceable candidate according to them. I want to be at a school that wants ME to be there.

Additionally, I'm going to go ahead and say that my ability to get into these schools, receive these scholarships, and negotiate has answered any questions regarding my intelligence. You are not required to respond to my post. If you are not interested in this post or do not agree with it, that is completely fine. I respectfully ask you to swallow your rude comments, or spill them onto some other tortured soul going through this process.

1.) Any admissions outreach is mostly courtesy and disingenuous salesmanship. If anything, Cornell is being frank and doesn't beat around the bush with things like this.

2.) That's a pretty entitled attitude, only being willing to go to a school that "really wants you". Michigan isn't going to be any more heartbroken than Cornell if you decide law school isn't for you. You're seriously not considering Cornell because they didn't pay you enough attention?

3.) You got into these schools/scholarships because your GPA and LSAT are within acceptable ranges, neither of which are a testament to your intelligence. You may well be very smart, but your #'s don't prove anything. Don't assume you're superior to sticker-paying compatriots, or people who attend lower ranked schools. Similarly, you're not intrinsically inferior to those with greater scholarships/attend higher ranked schools.

People here telling you Cornell is a good choice are actually giving an honest, objective opinion. Michigan's employment numbers have been dropping; Cornell's have been going up. Michigan at 30k/year is not a bad choice and is a very good outcome, but nobody here is being rude.

Thank you for your input.

1 & 2) I don't think I'm being entitled, I'm just trying to possess some foresight. The individuals that work for these law schools are the ones who are going to later assist me in getting a job (I'm aware that the individuals who I am communicating with now are different that the ones I would be later). Yes, this is obviously MY responsibility and the weight is on MY shoulders, but I would like to feel valued (even if it's surface level) by the network of individuals who I will be later connected with.

3) While I did not compare my intelligence to the intelligence anyone else, I appreciate the judgment in assuming I did. I think anyone going through the law school admissions process deserves credit regarding their intelligence. Better said, not necessarily credit, but at least not ridicule in choices made.

I appreciate the input regarding Cornell, however it is not the topic I posted about. Seriously, I am forever grateful for the input, but the difficulty I am having right now is regarding Michigan and USC.

[PeanutsNJam]

If it's just Michigan vs USC in your case, everybody agrees Michigan is better. If you strongly prefer Ann Arbor to Ithica, that's a valid reason to chose Michigan over Cornell. Just know that the admissions office's attitude towards you has 0 impact on your employability from that school, or even your experience there.

[iVi]

I agree that UMich is clearly the better option here.

But in fairness to the OP, I'll say that Cornell's entire admissions office has made a very poor impression on me throughout the cycle. They've been incredibly slow to respond to emails, curt if not downright rude over the phone, and surprisingly unhelpful when it comes to answering some pretty standard questions. I'm starting to feel that, despite awarding me a very generous scholarship, they couldn't care less if I actually attend. This is in pretty stark contrast to almost every other T20 school with whom I've had correspondence.

Even knowing that I'll likely never speak with any of them again, I can't help feeling it's not limited only to AdComms.

[Kinky John]

If you guys are so concerned about rudeness then maybe working in NYC is bad idea

[BigZuck]

Why would you ever need to correspond with adcoms any way? The only time I ever did was asking for scholly bumps, and actually IIRC Michigan was the goofiest/rudiest in their response to those during my cycle.

You guys are putting way too much stock in Dean Z's cool auntness, literally none of this stuff matters and you will never correspond with these people once you matriculate and how they act is not a reflection on the school in general in my experience.

[071816]

you're a moron for not considering cornell, especially for the reasons you listed above.

[eriedoctrine]

I agree that UMich is clearly the better option here.

But in fairness to the OP, I'll say that Cornell's entire admissions office has made a very poor impression on me throughout the cycle. They've been incredibly slow to respond to emails, curt if not downright rude over the phone, and surprisingly unhelpful when it comes to answering some pretty standard questions. I'm starting to feel that, despite awarding me a very generous scholarship, they couldn't care less if I actually attend. This is in pretty stark contrast to almost every other T20 school with whom I've had correspondence.

Even knowing that I'll likely never speak with any of them again, I can't help feeling it's not limited only to AdComms.

Who cares??
Go to Cornell...

[chuckbass]

Looks like the individuals at Cornell do a better job of "assisting" students in getting jobs than the individuals at Michigan do

[Nmsx8]

Looks like the individuals at Cornell do a better job of "assisting" students in getting jobs than the individuals at Michigan do

Touche. I'm sure a Cornell thread would love a lot of this information!

[Big Dog]

(I'm aware that the individuals who I am communicating with now are different that the ones I would be later).

so you do recognize that Dean Z's staff will not be running the clerkship/job offices, who could be staffed with total, unhelpful jerks? OTOH, the clerkship/placement office at Cornell might be as helpful as can be? (My point is that they REALLY are two distinct offices with two different missions, and unless you speak with them specifically.....)

[rpupkin]

Additionally, I'm going to go ahead and say that my ability to get into these schools, receive these scholarships, and negotiate has answered any questions regarding my intelligence.

Oh my.

In any event, you should of course choose Michigan over USC if your goal is NYC big law.

[Nmsx8]

you're a moron for not considering cornell, especially for the reasons you listed above.

Usually I place myself above making judgments about people based on one piece of information, but let's do it.

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You're a moron for spending that much time on a forum giving absolutely useless advice (I can only assume all of your other posts are like this one, since you assumed I did not consider Cornell). If you're going to talk a "big" game, try backing yourself up with actual points as to why not choosing Cornell classifies me as a moron. I am already clear about employment stats as well as NYC placements, so you can assume my decision was made based on knowing these facts. I am a person, not a machine dictated by statistics. If I were, the decision would be easy and I obviously would not be posting asking for assistance.

[071816]

you're a moron for not considering cornell, especially for the reasons you listed above.

Usually I place myself above making judgments about people based on one piece of information, but let's do it.

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You're a moron for spending that much time on a forum giving absolutely useless advice (I can only assume all of your other posts are like this one, since you assumed I did not consider Cornell). If you're going to talk a "big" game, try backing yourself up with actual points as to why not choosing Cornell classifies me as a moron. I am already clear about employment stats as well as NYC placements, so you can assume my decision was made based on knowing these facts. I am a person, not a machine dictated by statistics. If I were, the decision would be easy and I obviously would not be posting asking for assistance.

you sound extremely naive and short-sighted, but whatever.

[sneezus]

OP, as someone recently deposited at Michigan, i'm begging you to go to Cornell

[Kinky John]

So OP, what's your Northwestern offer?

[DetroitBL]

OP, as someone recently deposited at Michigan, i'm begging you to go to Cornell

[Nmsx8]

So OP, what's your Northwestern offer?

Nada

Just to clarify, I am seriously grateful for everyone assisting me with this question. I am just asking for help on something I have never done before. I just don't see the logic in calling me (or anyone in the future) a "moron", "idiot", etc. for making a very tough decision to not attend a certain school. I completely understand people's decision to attend Cornell - it's a great school! Just not the right one for me. I am respectfully requesting advice, not judgment.

Again, thank you everyone for your time in helping me out with this!

[Nmsx8]

(I'm aware that the individuals who I am communicating with now are different that the ones I would be later).

so you do recognize that Dean Z's staff will not be running the clerkship/job offices, who could be staffed with total, unhelpful jerks? OTOH, the clerkship/placement office at Cornell might be as helpful as can be? (My point is that they REALLY are two distinct offices with two different missions, and unless you speak with them specifically.....)

That's a great point. I'm going to try to do more research regarding their placement offices beyond their reported stats.

[NorCalLaw]

Picking Cornell despite their alleged disinterest will be the first step on a long road to developing humility and rational decision-making skills. I applaud you ahead of time on making the right choice and growing as a person.

[CanadianWolf]

Because you want to work in NYC & because you want to be employed after finishing law school, Michigan is the better choice even though $90,000 more expensive.

If USC added a living stipend to your full tuition scholarship & you were targeting SoCal law firms, then my opinion would change.

P.S. OP: Posters might understand your interest in USC if you shared that you want to work in Entertainment & Employment law which has a substantial presence in both LA & NYC.

[Julius]

Additionally, please refrain from suggesting I defer acceptance since I am not 100% sure what type of law I want to go into - that is not an option for me.

Why can't you defer?

[nordi]

With respect to the unhelpful comments about Cornell. Cornell's sticker price is like $6,000 more than Michigan's. So, for OP it would have been $4,000 cheaper a year. Cornell feeds people into NY big law as if that's the only thing worth doing because it's what the vast majority of students who go there want to do. Choosing Michigan over Cornell with that price difference is completely reasonable. Go to Ann Arbor. Be a less miserable person. Don't jump off a gorge.

[tskela]

Boggles my mind that impersonal recruiting/admissions could even be a factor in choosing a school. I don't get it. They offered you 40k a year right? How much more can they show they want you? Money speaks louder than prompt email responses from admissions imo, but that's just me