NYU($) or Columbia ... by Tomorrow Forum

[tlsapp2017]

Housing at NYU is more expensive, make sure you have accounted for that. Not 37.5k more expensive, but more.

Why do people keep making this comparison regarding cost of living, as if you HAVE to live in the village or the NYU dorms if you go to NYU.

NYU is at the the narrow end of the island and most of the major express subway lines run within five minute walking distance of the campus. You can easily find a more affordable apartment uptown or in brooklyn and commute to the village with a 20-30 minute commute (one way). Theyre in the same city, as an NYU student, I can keep my cost of living as law as a Columbia student and vice versa.

Columbia provides subsidized apartment housing; NYU's housing is dorm-style, and more expensive. That doesn't mean that you can't find off-campus affordable housing, but it's not easy to find off-campus housing for less than $1000 per month (utilities included) unless you want to move to NJ, which may effect quality of life (which also matters). That being said, as the poster above admitted, it's not 37.5k more expensive, or even close.

I would only add that Columbia seems to be estimating monthly room/utility expenses at $1356. I am confident I can find a place (including utilities) somewhere on the 123/ACE/BD/456 (to get to NYU) for at or less than that amount. I might have to find a roommate (whereas Columbia estimates it for a single), but it can certainly be done without needing to go to NJ or significantly hurt quality of life.

Well if you care about money, don't get a single. Monthly room/utility expenses for grad student housing at Columbia in an apt share should be about $1000.

[Chiller303]

OP,

I think the unanswered question of why you prefer Columbia "all else being equal" is central to giving good advice. That said, it seems like the initial post answers the question, given that all else is not equal. So if equality is the level at which you have a preference, and you have a 37.5k difference in cost here, then it seems like NYU is the right choice. But you've still made the thread, which makes me think that you actually want to go to Columbia.

Disclaimer: NYU 3L.

Edited for typos.

[Pragmatic Gun]

if there's interest by op or other posters i'd be happy to go into which neighborhoods are best for nyu commuters and prices i've paid in previous apts

East Harlem isn't so bad; the 6 train takes one to Astor. Then one walks a few blocks to NYU

[03152016]

whereabouts in e harlem are you at? i know that area well

it's kind of far away, sounds like a rough commute
i don't think i know anyone commuting here from e harlem

[moonman157]

If Columbia is actually estimating that the cost of a 1 bedroom in MH is $1356 a month, then that's just wrong. If you go through law school housing, it will certainly cost you more than that. I have no doubt that it's cheaper than the village, but just be weary of using that price as a metric to estimate CLS costs, because if you go through their housing it will certainly cost you more than that.

[BiglawAssociate]

A one bed in Manhattan goes more for 3300+ a month......

You could probably rent a super tiny room outside of manhattan for less than 1k a month....

[tlsapp2017]

If Columbia is actually estimating that the cost of a 1 bedroom in MH is $1356 a month, then that's just wrong. If you go through law school housing, it will certainly cost you more than that. I have no doubt that it's cheaper than the village, but just be weary of using that price as a metric to estimate CLS costs, because if you go through their housing it will certainly cost you more than that.

I'm assuming this means a studio, not an actual one bedroom. For a UAH studio that sounds about right, no?

[michlaw]

Are people saying there is no difference between CLS and NYU or that 12K a year is an amount/the amount that makes the decision a no brainer for NYU? What percent would choose CLS over NYU even dollars? I would have thought 100%. 12K a year seems meaningless in the long run.

[jbagelboy]

If Columbia is actually estimating that the cost of a 1 bedroom in MH is $1356 a month, then that's just wrong. If you go through law school housing, it will certainly cost you more than that. I have no doubt that it's cheaper than the village, but just be weary of using that price as a metric to estimate CLS costs, because if you go through their housing it will certainly cost you more than that.

I'm assuming this means a studio, not an actual one bedroom. For a UAH studio that sounds about right, no?

Aaahhahahah no. Studios are still crazy. Good luck finding a 1300 studio.

But if you're a couple, the 1BDRs are solid. You split $1900-2200 and it comes out to ~1000/month. My 1L year I was paying less than 1000/mo.

It's not impossible to find a $1000/month non-dorm option in Manhattan through Columbia housing. That's pretty stellar IMO

[jbagelboy]

Are people saying there is no difference between CLS and NYU or that 12K a year is an amount/the amount that makes the decision a no brainer for NYU? What percent would choose CLS over NYU even dollars? I would have thought 100%. 12K a year seems meaningless in the long run.

This line of thinking is dangerous. 12k/year is not meaningless. 35k is a year of extra loan payments. There are some criteria that suggest Columbia could be worth that much over NYU for certain people, but its a tough call. I think CLS is justified but far from obvious.

[kaiser]

Are people saying there is no difference between CLS and NYU or that 12K a year is an amount/the amount that makes the decision a no brainer for NYU? What percent would choose CLS over NYU even dollars? I would have thought 100%. 12K a year seems meaningless in the long run.

Once you are actually in practice, you will realize 35K is not an insignificant amount. It may very well be the difference between staying in biglaw 3 vs. 4 years, and thats a huge deal.

[03152016]

nyu's col is $4k higher than cls col
cls's tuition is $4k higher than nyu tuition
so it comes out to be exactly even

lst debt financed at repayment is 317,429 for cls
and it's 317,426 at nyu
there is obviously intentional matching between the schools
they cost the same, before you factor in aid

so 37.5k more in aid literally means 37.5k less in cost
that's roughly 45k less in debt at repayment
and $67k less in total payments made on a standard 10 year plan
(numbers via lawschool22 cost calculator)

[michlaw]

You are wrong. 35k is meaningless once you decide to go to a top law school. It is a new car and the average individual will buy 10 of those in their life. Your position is clear, don't go to law school. You may well be right. But once you are in for a penny you are in for a pound and you owe it to yourself to place yourself in the best position for success.

[03152016]

unless there's a compelling reason or the costs are close, i think students should go to the cheaper of the two
it concerns me when people treat loans like monopoly money
maybe this is my upbringing, but $67,000 is a lot of money to me
and i personally would not be comfortable rationalizing the added expense by amortizing it over the course of a career, since outcomes are substantially similar at cls and nyu

[Tiago Splitter]

35k is meaningless once you decide to go to a top law school.

What's the lowest number that isn't meaningless?

[michlaw]

If you are going to participate in the NYC scene then party on. A top preschool in NYC goes for 30K a year. Preschool. A top private high school is 50K a year. NYC is the prestige capital of the world and you want to work there. You say you went to NYU without a named scholly and the assumption is that you didn't get into 1-4. If you can make it there...NY NY.

[03152016]

outcomes matter, not lay prestige
nyu and cls are regarded as peers in nyc, full stop. to think that you need a named scholly to justify nyu over cls is beyond stupid
rankings are meaningless. the fact nyu is not 1-4 has no practical effect, and positions within ccn have always shifted over the years. all of ccn has has been a "top 4" school, whatever that means

[jbagelboy]

If you are going to participate in the NYC scene then party on. A top preschool in NYC goes for 30K a year. Preschool. A top private high school is 50K a year. NYC is the prestige capital of the world and you want to work there. You say you went to NYU without a named scholly and the assumption is that you didn't get into 1-4. If you can make it there...NY NY.

I go to CLS and this is incredibly stupid

[negativefeedback]

n/a

[UpandDown97]

Is 1 year of living shitty worth saying you went to Columbia?

Why "living shitty"? What if he wants to have a long career in Big Law?

I think it's generally credited that doing Big Law is pretty shitty. Long hours, lot of unpredictability, high stress. I think anyone who wants Big Law recognizes that it's not high quality of life and sooner or later, unless you're the .01 percent that makes it to partner, you need to get out before you lose your health.

Big Law is generally only desirable for exit options and to pay off debt. As soon as you have one and/or the other, it's time to get out.

[michlaw]

outcomes matter, not lay prestige
nyu and cls are regarded as peers in nyc, full stop. to think that you need a named scholly to justify nyu over cls is beyond stupid
rankings are meaningless. the fact nyu is not 1-4 has no practical effect, and positions within ccn have always shifted over the years. all of ccn has has been a "top 4" school, whatever that means

I am always happy to learn. Do you have any stats to prove your point that CLS and NYU are the same (unless you are being clever because the meaning of calling them peers covers a wide range)? Any numbers available on students who are accepted at both (money being equal) and which school they choose? Outcomes are hard to compare because most outcome numbers I have seen cover the short timeframe of post JD, such as one year out employment. Hard to prove or disprove the effect of a particular school 10 years out I would think.

[Jakobe]

Just try and marry up a man/woman from one of the local grad schools, I know my SO gets super subsidized housing from Weill Cornell. She ends up paying like 1400 for a pretty good sized studio in the UES or East Village.

[transferror]

outcomes matter, not lay prestige
nyu and cls are regarded as peers in nyc, full stop. to think that you need a named scholly to justify nyu over cls is beyond stupid
rankings are meaningless. the fact nyu is not 1-4 has no practical effect, and positions within ccn have always shifted over the years. all of ccn has has been a "top 4" school, whatever that means

I am always happy to learn. Do you have any stats to prove your point that CLS and NYU are the same (unless you are being clever because the meaning of calling them peers covers a wide range)? Any numbers available on students who are accepted at both (money being equal) and which school they choose? Outcomes are hard to compare because most outcome numbers I have seen cover the short timeframe of post JD, such as one year out employment. Hard to prove or disprove the effect of a particular school 10 years out I would think.

NYU and CLS are peers by basically every metric, as discussed ad nauseam on this site. Entering classes have roughly the same LSAT/GPA numbers, they are in the same market, both are portable degrees, placement power at top firms is about the same, and cost is the same. There's a little difference on the margins, e.g., NYU is more known for public interest. But they are peers by almost every metric.

The bolded is stupid. The school's name/reputation is much more important for the purposes of entry-level placement than career prospects 10 years out. At that point someone's work product, book of business, network, reputation, etc., is much more important. Additionally, there's no way to objectively gauge "success" at that point. Some ppl start at white shoe Manhattan firms and decide to have a family and settle in at a small firm in their hometown for quality-of-life reasons. And firms go under and ppl burn out and leave the legal profession, which would look bad in the 10-year-out-of-school data, but is not at all indicative of the strength or placement power of the school.