Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$) Forum

[Alan Grant]

Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.

zing!

There was actually a pretty thorough discussion of law school prestige on another thread (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&start=75), and the conclusion was that basically on Harvard has true national lay prestige. Even Yale and Stanford don't really compare in this respect. Schools like Columbia, Penn, and Cornell are prestigious, but they are only really known in the Northeast. The takeaway is if prestige is a factor, Columbia does not get a leg up; UCLA is actually probably more highly regarded is SoCal.

[Eladriel]

One of the very dumbest things about sticker at a school like Columbia is that if you can get in you usually can go to a school like Cornell with a solid discount and not give up a whole lot when it comes to job prospects.

Except Ithaca and the finger lakes district.

[Eladriel]

Schizer is the old outgoing dean. You mean Gillian Lester.

Sigh. 0L error. I apologize for my sinns.

[jbagelboy]

Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.

zing!

There was actually a pretty thorough discussion of law school prestige on another thread (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&start=75), and the conclusion was that basically on Harvard has true national lay prestige. Even Yale and Stanford don't really compare in this respect. Schools like Columbia, Penn, and Cornell are prestigious, but they are only really known in the Northeast. The takeaway is if prestige is a factor, Columbia does not get a leg up; UCLA is actually probably more highly regarded is SoCal.

Lol. Citing to that thread for the truth of its "conclusions" is like citing to the Call of Cthulhu to prove the existence of a greater deity. And while there's absolutely no way the last statement is true, it's entirely besides the point since law students pontifications on institutional signaling should play no role in law school attendance decision-making

[Alan Grant]

Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.

zing!

There was actually a pretty thorough discussion of law school prestige on another thread (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&start=75), and the conclusion was that basically on Harvard has true national lay prestige. Even Yale and Stanford don't really compare in this respect. Schools like Columbia, Penn, and Cornell are prestigious, but they are only really known in the Northeast. The takeaway is if prestige is a factor, Columbia does not get a leg up; UCLA is actually probably more highly regarded is SoCal.

Lol. Citing to that thread for the truth of its "conclusions" is like citing to the Call of Cthulhu to prove the existence of a greater deity. And while there's absolutely no way the last statement is true, it's entirely besides the point since law students pontifications on institutional signaling should play no role in law school attendance decision-making

While I do not necessarily agree with you, I will say that you have excellent prose.

[Eladriel]

Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.

zing!

There was actually a pretty thorough discussion of law school prestige on another thread (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&start=75), and the conclusion was that basically on Harvard has true national lay prestige. Even Yale and Stanford don't really compare in this respect. Schools like Columbia, Penn, and Cornell are prestigious, but they are only really known in the Northeast. The takeaway is if prestige is a factor, Columbia does not get a leg up; UCLA is actually probably more highly regarded is SoCal.

Lol. Citing to that thread for the truth of its "conclusions" is like citing to the Call of Cthulhu to prove the existence of a greater deity. And while there's absolutely no way the last statement is true, it's entirely besides the point since law students pontifications on institutional signaling should play no role in law school attendance decision-making

“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of the infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.”

Kk. I'm going to stop and go DOTA before I embarass myself further.

[BigZuck]

Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.

zing!

Sorry bro but if you wanted to go to a prestigious law school you should have gone to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.

Columbia is basically a Cornell. "Yeah, I've heard of it. That's a good school, right?"

Definitely not a place to go if you want to impress a normal.

Eta: seriously though, no one should pay 300K just cuz it's Harvard, let alone Columbia

[The King]

.

[jbagelboy]

Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.

zing!

Sorry bro but if you wanted to go to a prestigious law school you should have gone to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.

Columbia is basically a Cornell. "Yeah, I've heard of it. That's a good school, right?"

Definitely not a place to go if you want to impress a normal.

Eta: seriously though, no one should pay 300K just cuz it's Harvard, let alone Columbia

you're totally right, I woulda had all them panties droppin if I'd stuck with Princeton Law. I just couldn't stomach that sticker cost

[The King]

.

[ub3r]

Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?

[jbagelboy]

Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?

very far, since most firm recruiting occurs late summer after 1L. That being said, large firms would definitely go lower into the class at CLS at OCI ("cut in front"), but that doesn't mean you should go there at that cost. It also depends on ties: obviously the CLS student will have to meet a higher bar in terms of convincing the employer they actually want to be in CA. For small firms and public interest recruiting that actually does happen post-grad, UCLA probably has a leg up due to networking/local connections required for such positions

[ub3r]

Cool. Assuming there's no big Columbia aid offer, I'll probably go to UCLA. Thanks everyone.

[LawsRUs]

Cool. Assuming there's no big Columbia aid offer, I'll probably go to UCLA. Thanks everyone.

best wishes ub, we might end up at rival schools, i hope you don't hate us that much

[ub3r]

Cool. Assuming there's no big Columbia aid offer, I'll probably go to UCLA. Thanks everyone.

best wishes ub, we might end up at rival schools, i hope you don't hate us that much

Nah man, not at all. Best of luck to you as well.

[Eladriel]

Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?

very far, since most firm recruiting occurs late summer after 1L. That being said, large firms would definitely go lower into the class at CLS at OCI ("cut in front"), but that doesn't mean you should go there at that cost. It also depends on ties: obviously the CLS student will have to meet a higher bar in terms of convincing the employer they actually want to be in CA. For small firms and public interest recruiting that actually does happen post-grad, UCLA probably has a leg up due to networking/local connections required for such positions

When you pay for Columbia aren't you paying for that management of risk? National job placement options that beat even the local schools, generous curve, non-discretionary B-'s, Biglaw factory? As 0Ls we're supposed to assume we'll be median--median at CLS is still salvageable while median at UCLA isn't?

[jbagelboy]

Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?

very far, since most firm recruiting occurs late summer after 1L. That being said, large firms would definitely go lower into the class at CLS at OCI ("cut in front"), but that doesn't mean you should go there at that cost. It also depends on ties: obviously the CLS student will have to meet a higher bar in terms of convincing the employer they actually want to be in CA. For small firms and public interest recruiting that actually does happen post-grad, UCLA probably has a leg up due to networking/local connections required for such positions

When you pay for Columbia aren't you paying for that management of risk? National job placement options that beat even the local schools, generous curve, non-discretionary B-'s, Biglaw factory? As 0Ls we're supposed to assume we'll be median--median at CLS is still salvageable while median at UCLA isn't?

Well, sure. Median at CLS is a lot better than salvageable: it's a set of great offers and summering at a V20, assuming you're an okay interviewer. Bottom third is better described as "salvageable." Also, there's a question of firm quality: CLS's preeminence shows even more in elite corporate firms. But as a response to uber's question, no *grad* from any school can show up in another market and get a job at a good firm, that's not how recruiting works. A few other points:

*the B- are discretionary; they aren't on the curve. That's the whole advantage. You can be near the bottom of every class (straight B's) and still make it through EIP.

**Biglaw factory, eh. Maybe for a majority. Don't underestimate the placement power into federal government positions and national fellowships as well. The US Attorney General (highest gov attorney in the country), the Solicitor General, the Chair of the SEC, the AAG for the Criminal Division, ect. are all CLS grads.

***All this being said, for someone who wants to work long-term in Los Angeles at a firm, it's probably not worth moving across the country and borrowing $200,000 extra cash for these perks.

[jbagelboy]

REASONS FOR UCLA:
-Tuition is $5k a year, and I might be able to make that $0 after negotiation.
-I can foster LA/NorCal connections while still in school more readily than I can in NYC.
-I like living in California more than New England.
-Easier on relationship with girlfriend.

Also, New York is not New England. New England is way worse.

[BigZuck]

Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?

very far, since most firm recruiting occurs late summer after 1L. That being said, large firms would definitely go lower into the class at CLS at OCI ("cut in front"), but that doesn't mean you should go there at that cost. It also depends on ties: obviously the CLS student will have to meet a higher bar in terms of convincing the employer they actually want to be in CA. For small firms and public interest recruiting that actually does happen post-grad, UCLA probably has a leg up due to networking/local connections required for such positions

When you pay for Columbia aren't you paying for that management of risk? National job placement options that beat even the local schools, generous curve, non-discretionary B-'s, Biglaw factory? As 0Ls we're supposed to assume we'll be median--median at CLS is still salvageable while median at UCLA isn't?

You seriously want to pay 300K to have this dude's life?:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=241821

Paying 300K for a ticket to line up at the big law drone factory makes no sense. Pay for a cheaper ticket to line up at the big law drone factory. Or, don't even bother with the drone factory at all. Find something better to do with your life. Working big law in a high cost of living place with 300K debt hanging over your head sounds like a really terrible situation to be in. And it's totally avoidable.

Don't do it kid.

[ub3r]

REASONS FOR UCLA:
-Tuition is $5k a year, and I might be able to make that $0 after negotiation.
-I can foster LA/NorCal connections while still in school more readily than I can in NYC.
-I like living in California more than New England.
-Easier on relationship with girlfriend.

Also, New York is not New England. New England is way worse.

Heh, I was wondering if someone would catch this. I'm not a NYC fan either, but it's definitely preferable to Boston and the rest of those little states.

[Eladriel]

We're not talking about Boston from a legal perspective right? Just Boston in general?

[ub3r]

Yeah. Don't like the city. Know some good people there, but I don't like it at all.

Know nothing about the legal market.

[BiglawAssociate]

None of the above.

[iliketurtles123]

Columbia @ sticker is 99% worth it IMO if you want NYC biglaw

Seems like you don't even want biglaw though so I'd go UCLA 100%

Don't underestimate the difficulty of long-distance relationships, especially during law school.

[smaug]

Well, sure. Median at CLS is a lot better than salvageable: it's a set of great offers and summering at a V20, assuming you're an okay interviewer. Bottom third is better described as "salvageable."

I'm sure this is true of people you know, but this is overstating things. How many of the offers for median CLS students are from Willkie and SRZ alone? Cahill? I mean, yeah you have some massive summer classes in the V20 who take students down to median, but again, "set of great offers and summering at a V20" isn't the modal outcome for a median student at CLS.

Would agree that median is more than "salvageable" though.