Cornell or Duke (from Waitlist) Forum

[Nomo]

Honestly, you sound like someone who should not attend law school at this time. may have "warmed up" to corporate law, but if its something you're trying to ditch in a few years then you better know what you're going to ditch it for and it better be something realistic (no international law). And when you ask whether Duke will give you a better shot at non-corporate law, what do you mean? It doesn't appear that you're trying to distinguish b/w corporate/transactional and litigation. I get the feeling you have no idea what you're jumping into or why. So I wouldn't jump. I would delay another year, learn more about the legal profession and consider going next year.

Sorry, should have been clearer in the initial post, but I was posting in a sort of panic. By non-corporate law I basically meant health law, communications law, IP, etc., rather than the corporate in-house council positions Cornell tends to push. That might be me using the wrong terminology, so I apologize for that. I've only worked in public interest (DA's office) so I'm honestly not sure how much I would enjoy corporate law at this point, but I am looking forward to exploring different aspects of it through my classes.

This response makes me even more sure you shouldn't be going to law school at this time. Your classes aren't going to give you an idea of what practice area you want to be in - especially not as a 1L. And Cornell might be pushing corporate in-house as an exit opportunity for transactional lawyers after biglaw chews them up and spits them out, but its not the type of job many people are getting right out of school. You're not doing IP without a technical degree. And there are really only two ways to become a specialist in Health Law/Communications law (1) find one of the few entry level jobs at a federal agency dealing with these issues; (2) go to a law firm that happens to have some big health/communicaiton cases or deals and get staffed on them. Number 2 isn't as easy as it sounds. Young associates get send where they are needed. Mid level associates work with partners who like them in practice areas they have some experience with. You don't have that much control over it.

The fact that you don't know these things makes me wonder what else you might not know. I worry that you haven't spent enough time learning about this profession. I really hope you will take a year to learn more before attending. Not only because you might find law school isn't right for you, but also because even if you decide to go its best to walk in with a nuanced idea of what you're trying to do (and what Plan B, C, etc. are) on day 1.

[Hahalollawl]

I was accepted to Cornell and Duke off the WL and am going to be at Duke this fall. Duke's financial aid office was pretty quick in getting me my offer IIRC so you should get a chance to compare the two before you decide. I may be biased and my experience is not exactly the same as yours but on the chance that something is helpful...

First off, I think you got a better money offer from Cornell than I did. My LSAT is higher than yours but my GPA is lower, so maybe Cornell was looking for higher GPAs. For this reason, it might be a bit more difficult for you to choose Duke over Cornell than it was for me.

In my case, choosing Duke over Cornell was a pretty easy decision. To be honest, my experience with Cornell was pretty disappointing. I know i wasn't entitled to anything, but Cornell offered me very little money and based on the emails i received seemed to have no interest in negotiating with me unless I had a competing offer from a peer. At the time I didn't have one so I got no increase. This may be a bit of a tangent, but it vividly showed me how much of a cynical numbers game law school admissions/financial aid has become, at least at Cornell. As long as l you're not a threat to their yield, why should they care how much money you would have to pay to attend right?

Anyways, Duke swooped in and offered me significantly more money off of the waitlist without even asking to see my other offer (though considering how little I had from Cornell it wasn't like they had to offer me a lot to beat Cornell's offer), and in doing so won my respect and my attendance. A higher ranking school offering more money? Who would have thought lol.

However, your situation is different from mine. I don't know if Duke will be able or willing to beat the offer you have from Cornell at this point and I guess you may have some logistical issues to get hammered out this late. But it does seem interesting that Duke is the school you wanted and perhaps more importantly you do NOT seem to want NY. Anyways, maybe you can come back later this week when you find out about financial aid. That should allow you to make a better informed decision. Sorry if this seems like it turned into a bit of a rant. If you do choose Duke, hopefully I'll see you in the Fall!

Just lol at this. Respect? What? You got in off the waitlist and had no competing offers - what were you expecting from Cornell? The game is the same at every school, except perhaps hys. Yikes at your entitled attitude (from a WL no less...).

Anyway, OP, I agree Duke is probably better for you unless they completely stonewall.

Sorry it looks like my post wasn't clear. I've fixed it now hopefully. Cornell was NOT off of the waitlist. Duke was. If that changes anything.

Edit: Though to be honest, what does it matter whether I was accepted off of the waitlist or not? Doesn't seem like Duke cared since they offered me money off the waitlist.

And it would have been one thing if Cornell had come back and said, sorry but that's our final offer and we just can't afford to go any higher. But that wasn't the case. Since what they were clearly interested in was competing offers, it seems pretty obvious that they were mostly if not only interested in protecting their yield, not the gigantic amount of debt I might have had. That's their right though, and it's my right to be disappointed by that is it not? You can laugh at me all you want, but the OP asked for help in making a difficult decision, and I offered my experience and insight, while also noting that I may be biased. I think he/she appreciated the information i offered and that's more important to me than what you think of me.

Also, OP seems to have had a similar experience with Cornell.

[cron1834]

1) dude you have a 3.2x GPA, it's not YP

2) any notion of "respect" or "care" is foolish in this context; if Cornell comes up with a prudent COA, then go for it. If not, then don't. It's that simple. I'm not laughing at you, but I guess your suggestion that their admissions office dissed you and the thought that this should somehow be relevant to OP are laughable.

[Hahalollawl]

1) dude you have a 3.2x GPA, it's not YP

2) any notion of "respect" or "care" is foolish in this context; if Cornell comes up with a prudent COA, then go for it. If not, then don't. It's that simple. I'm not laughing at you, but I guess your suggestion that their admissions office dissed you and the thought that this should somehow be relevant to OP are laughable.

1. I think you might be confused. I was accepted to Cornell straight up. Not off the waitlist. After I was accepted I sought more money. Cornell was interested in knowing if I had other competitive offers, as with those they could reconsider what I had been offered. I did not, and was not given an increase. I inferred from this that they were interested in reconsidering my offer only if it appeared I might lower their yield, which seems like a reasonable inference. Is Cornell the only school that does this? I doubt it. But does that make it any less cynical?

2. I kind of agree and disagree with this. I do think it can be dangerous to be too heavily influenced by emotional factors in making a decision like this. Things like respect and care can be subjective. However, I disagree with it being as simple as having a prudent COA. First, "prudent" is difficult to define in my opinion, and can depend on the person. There are also other things to consider, such as location and job placement.

Anyways, I don't really want to spend much more time going back and forth with you over this, and I don't want to make this thread be just about me. My intent was to detail my experience in making this decision on the chance that it might help someone else going through a similar process. If you have a problem with me feel free to message me.

[cron1834]

1) Cornell likely wasn't playing YP games with someone way below one of their medians, WL or no WL. Every school wants peer offers if you ask for more money - what would the alternative be? Altruism? I'm not sure what you're going on about here.

2) Of course "prudent" is relative. I think we agree that total cost weighed against job prospects should be the VAST majority of your decision. If so, then I'm not sure why you even mentioned the word "respect" in the first place. Come on bro. Cornell didn't offer you what you think you merited, and it left a bad taste. Fine. But don't poison the well in this thread, because that has shit-all to do with the thought process OP needs for decision making.

[PourMeTea]

Post removed.

[SteelPenguin]

Hahahlollawl, you're mad that Cornell asked for competing offers when you asked for an increase in MERIT aid? Lol, what do you expect. Why did you deserve to pay less tuition than the next student in your situation? Congrats on Duke with a better offer than Cornell, but it is amusing that you're upset at a school for typical negotiation practices.

[Hahalollawl]

If anyone here still has a problem with me go ahead and message me. I would rather not respond in this thread and I don't think this thread needs any more posts directed at my situation. Hopefully the thread can focus on the OP's situation.

@PourMeTea I think a poll would make more sense when the OP knows what Duke has offered. Until then it would be trying to make a decision while missing very important information. Unless you think Duke at sticker is already better than Cornell with 20k/year. In that case I guess it doesn't matter...but I'm not sure how many people would agree with that.

[Yea All Right]

OP, please update when you get the financial aid offer from Duke. I am interested in knowing the decision you'll be facing, and I'm sure other posters here will be as well.

[tinagroan]

Hey all, just wanted to update this thread.
Duke has offered me a $75,000 scholarship. That's more than I was expecting, and it's obviously an attractive offer... to update the two yearly COA's, the Cornell estimate is around $59,500 and the Duke estimate is around $52,500 (before loans). I'm going to see if I can get out of my lease in Ithaca and talk to the Cornell admissions/financial aid department about my current scholarship. If they're like, "Here's a $40,000 scholarship, a puppy, and eternal life," that would of course change things, but right now I'm pretty much focusing on the best way to get myself to Durham in two weeks. I'm going to drive down on Wednesday and stay until Friday to look for housing and talk to an admissions counselor; if any current Duke students are down there and are willing to meet up that would be AMAZING.
Thanks to everyone who has commented and offered advice or their own success stories in switching this late! I appreciate it! I'm kind of freaking out over here...I'm torn between jumping for joy at the thought of Duke and crying over how much I'm going to miss the Cornell library. It's all still in flux right now but if I can get out of the lease I would be nuts not to take Duke at a lower overall COA than Cornell, right?

[Yea All Right]

Wow that is an awesome offer from Duke, congrats! At this point I agree that it'd probably be best to go to Duke given the lower COA and generally lower COL in Durham, however there is still that issue of the lease to deal with. Also, now that you have some great leverage, bring your Duke offer to Cornell's financial aid office to see if they'll give you any more money to keep you.

You are in a stressful situation, but remember that it is still very enviable! Congrats again and good luck.

[tinagroan]

Wow that is an awesome offer from Duke, congrats! At this point I agree that it'd probably be best to go to Duke given the lower COA and generally lower COL in Durham, however there is still that issue of the lease to deal with. Also, now that you have some great leverage, bring your Duke offer to Cornell's financial aid office to see if they'll give you any more money to keep you.

You are in a stressful situation, but remember that it is still very enviable! Congrats again and good luck.

I read this in Ryan Howard's voice, which is weird, because it's something I don't think he would ever say haha. Thank you! If it's a definite no at Cornell, I'll be sad that I never got to know you IRL, but best of luck in Ithaca!

[PB&J.D.]

What Yea said. Be sure to sell Cornell with your interest as strongly as possible to get the best offer. If that doesn't work out, best of luck with your lease & welcome to Duke! Feel free to message me or jump into the Duke C/O 2017 thread with any housing questions.

[Yea All Right]

I read this in Ryan Howard's voice, which is weird, because it's something I don't think he would ever say haha. Thank you! If it's a definite no at Cornell, I'll be sad that I never got to know you IRL, but best of luck in Ithaca!

Thanks Tina! Now you're making me sad, another Office fan not attending Cornell. We could be like Ryan, just doing cocaine in New York during our 1L year... I'm just kidding. Meth seems like more fun.

It's funny, I know another girl who committed to Cornell but just told me she got accepted off a waitlist somewhere else and will be going there. Plus it's interesting that I was also waitlisted at Duke and considered it my #1 choice in the winter/ early spring, then I really started to like the idea of attending Cornell and decided to withdraw from Duke's waitlist after the update email a week or two ago.

I agree with PB&J.D. that the wording in your correspondence with Cornell is important. If you want to get more money you should make it seem like you really want to stay but just can't because of the financial advantages that Duke's offer provides. Again, two great schools that you can't go wrong at, if you choose Duke then congrats and have fun!

[cron1834]

The crowd sourced this one properly. See if Cornell will up, and if not, enjoy Duke.

[Nomo]

As I've said before I don't think you should be going to law school at this time.

But if you do go I wouldn't worry too much about your lease. Its a contract like any other, why don't you just inform them you are breaching. Most likely they take your security deposit and everyone calls it a day. I don't think they're going to be suing you over lost rent. Even if they did they have a duty to mitigate.

[tinagroan]

Committed to Duke this morning. It ended up being pretty simple to get out of my lease. Best of luck to all you Cornell waiters; hope my spot goes to one of you!

[PB&J.D.]

Committed to Duke this morning. It ended up being pretty simple to get out of my lease. Best of luck to all you Cornell waiters; hope my spot goes to one of you!

Nice. Welcome!