. Forum

[kimkardashian]

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[anyriotgirl]

A friend of mine who goes to Duke advised me that my reputation would be hurt if I turned down Michigan for Duke because it would be going against my word. He said all admissions offices in the top 14 talk to each other, and that changing my mind at this point would hurt me in the future when it comes to letters of recommendation and helping me find a job. Is this true? Doesn't this defy the very purpose of waitlists?

(Not that I've decided between Michigan and Duke yet.)

does your friend believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

[ymmv]

A friend of mine who goes to Duke advised me that my reputation would be hurt if I turned down Michigan for Duke because it would be going against my word. He said all admissions offices in the top 14 talk to each other, and that changing my mind at this point would hurt me in the future when it comes to letters of recommendation and helping me find a job. Is this true? Doesn't this defy the very purpose of waitlists?

(Not that I've decided between Michigan and Duke yet.)

does your friend believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

+1, your friend's ass must be sore from all its public speaking engagements.

[kimkardashian]

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[ymmv]

A friend of mine who goes to Duke advised me that my reputation would be hurt if I turned down Michigan for Duke because it would be going against my word. He said all admissions offices in the top 14 talk to each other, and that changing my mind at this point would hurt me in the future when it comes to letters of recommendation and helping me find a job. Is this true? Doesn't this defy the very purpose of waitlists?

(Not that I've decided between Michigan and Duke yet.)

does your friend believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

No hahaha. He's actually really great (childhood family friend) so I don't have any reason to not believe him.

If this were true then half my class would be blackballed from employment. The number of people who deposit at one school then switch to another is absurdly high.

[JVK]

No hahaha. He's actually really great (childhood family friend) so I don't have any reason to not believe him.

Maybe if you were backing out of an Early Decision agreement.

It doesn't matter at all for waitlists. Tons of students do it each year and it's a non-issue, especially on your end.

[cron1834]

A friend of mine who goes to Duke advised me that my reputation would be hurt if I turned down Michigan for Duke because it would be going against my word. He said all admissions offices in the top 14 talk to each other, and that changing my mind at this point would hurt me in the future when it comes to letters of recommendation and helping me find a job. Is this true? Doesn't this defy the very purpose of waitlists?

(Not that I've decided between Michigan and Duke yet.)

does your friend believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

No hahaha. He's actually really great (childhood family friend) so I don't have any reason to not believe him.

Whoever told you this has literally no idea what they are talking about. They may be well-meaning, but they are dead wrong.

I'm curious - if you want NYC and are from the NE, why isn't Cornell an option? I turned down Cornell and Duke for Mich, but in your case I think Duke and Cornell probably make more sense.

[kimkardashian]

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[ymmv]

Okay, thank you. That makes me feel better.

I didn't get into Cornell.

Their loss. Ann Arbor and Durham >>> Ithaca anyway.

[NYSprague]

Okay, thank you. That makes me feel better.

I didn't get into Cornell.

Yes, they are completely wrong. It might have been true back in the day but not for a long time.

[cron1834]

Getting in at D & M and rejected by Cornell? Weird! I guess that's why they play the games!

OP, I would go Duke here.

[kimkardashian]

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[ymmv]

Thank you for all the replies so far. They're very insightful.

My concerns at this point boil down to the culture and other small subjective factors.

- I'm sure I would like Ann Arbor much better than Durham. I went to undergrad in NYC and I'm not sure how I would deal with Durham's alleged crappiness after going to school in Manhattan. But having visited neither school, it's probably not right of me to judge. I'm just going off of what everyone else has said.
- I really dislike the cold and am fearful of driving in snow - but that doesn't mean I couldn't suck it up and deal with it for three years.
- Duke's smaller class size appeals to me because I've always gone to huge schools.
- As a liberal minority female who doesn't drink much, I'm a little apprehensive about Duke's southern "fratty" culture.
- Michigan's admissions staff has been so nice to me.

Both towns will seem "crappy" after Manhattan. I mean, they're basically dinky college hamlets, despite Ann Arbor's general pleasantness and decent bar scene. Culturally you sound like a closer fit to Michigan. But I would also be a culturally closer fit to Michigan, so take my bias for what it is.

It sounds like you want someone to make this toss-up decision for you. Best I can say is go with your gut. Flip a coin if you are genuinely, really, truly on the fence about this. If you don't like the way the toss comes up, that should probably tell you something.

Anyway both are good schools and I doubt you'll regret either choice.

[jbagelboy]

My concerns at this point boil down to the culture and other small subjective factors.

- I'm sure I would like Ann Arbor much better than Durham. I went to undergrad in NYC and I'm not sure how I would deal with Durham's alleged crappiness after going to school in Manhattan. But having visited neither school, it's probably not right of me to judge. I'm just going off of what everyone else has said. Coming from NYC, both college towns will give you rural culture shock. Ann Arbor may be closer to Detroit metro, but I hardly find that a plus.
- I really dislike the cold and am fearful of driving in snow - but that doesn't mean I couldn't suck it up and deal with it for three years.This is pretty legitimate - if you really don't like cold, Michigan isn't the place to be. But you've lived in New York, so you can clearly deal with a winter
- Duke's smaller class size appeals to me because I've always gone to huge schools.This is a more substantive consideration than weather, but it's honestly a pretty minor distinction. Michigan is reducing class size, and Duke isn't THAT small. If you want small, intimate class size, head for Chicago, Cornell or Stanford
- As a liberal minority female who doesn't drink much, I'm a little apprehensive about Duke's southern "fratty" culture. This might be a concern for an undergraduate, but you'd be surprised how removed law students are from the university culture at large. The only law school that tries to live up to it's 'culture' reputation is UVA.
- Michigan's admissions staff has been so nice to me. You'll actually never speak to them again after you start your first class

[kimkardashian]

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[jbagelboy]

My concerns at this point boil down to the culture and other small subjective factors.

- I'm sure I would like Ann Arbor much better than Durham. I went to undergrad in NYC and I'm not sure how I would deal with Durham's alleged crappiness after going to school in Manhattan. But having visited neither school, it's probably not right of me to judge. I'm just going off of what everyone else has said. Coming from NYC, both college towns will give you rural culture shock. Ann Arbor may be closer to Detroit metro, but I hardly find that a plus.
- I really dislike the cold and am fearful of driving in snow - but that doesn't mean I couldn't suck it up and deal with it for three years.This is pretty legitimate - if you really don't like cold, Michigan isn't the place to be. But you've lived in New York, so you can clearly deal with a winter
- Duke's smaller class size appeals to me because I've always gone to huge schools.This is a more substantive consideration than weather, but it's honestly a pretty minor distinction. Michigan is reducing class size, and Duke isn't THAT small. If you want small, intimate class size, head for Chicago, Cornell or Stanford
- As a liberal minority female who doesn't drink much, I'm a little apprehensive about Duke's southern "fratty" culture. This might be a concern for an undergraduate, but you'd be surprised how removed law students are from the university culture at large. The only law school that tries to live up to it's 'culture' reputation is UVA.
- Michigan's admissions staff has been so nice to me. You'll actually never speak to them again after you start your first class

Thank you for addressing these concerns individually.

I actually laughed at the last bullet point. I should rephrase that. I went to a huge undergrad and I despised their bureaucratic administration. It was clear that students were nothing but numbers and money to them. They sneaked in hidden fees (e.g. charging double by accident, charging for insurance that I waived out of, charging for housing without giving me housing) and threw gigantic fits when I asked them to remove those fees. I was always on hold for hours (8 hours one time!) when I called their various offices. The people who worked in their offices were typically short-tempered and always rude. In short, the administration was well-known for being inaccessible and difficult to deal with.

On the other hand, I was charmed by Michigan's responsive and caring administration. They email me often to make sure that I'm doing okay with the housing search and to ask if I need anything. They personally called me a few times. When I email them, they email back within the same day. Duke, on the other hand, has never called me, and takes a few days or over a week to answer my emails. I know it's a small thing to complain about, but it made it seem like Michigan had a more tight-knit and kind community than Duke, which, again, has always seemed kind of douchey to me for whatever reason. Maybe it's their devotion to sports, maybe it's Tucker Max and Richard Nixon, maybe it's the southern location, I don't know why, but I've weird vibes about Duke. I realize those vibes are founded on ridiculous factors and are probably unwarranted though.

Sounds like you went to NYU undergrad. I've heard the stories. Either way, please do yourself the favor of dropping the impression that you are 'more than just a number' to Michigan adcoms: you are precisely a number, and they work hard to convince you to help them maintain those numbers (whether it be yield data or gpa/lsat medians). Regardless, it sounds like you really just don't like Duke and couldn't see yourself going there and that your mind is already made up. this isn't uncommon: we constantly rationalize our choices and apply these broad aspersions when it's more of a gut thing. I can try to impress upon you that your fears about Duke are misguided, but I'm not sure that will make any difference.

They are peer institutions. Sounds like you want Michigan; go for it and don't look back.

[kimkardashian]

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[ymmv]

My concerns at this point boil down to the culture and other small subjective factors.

- I'm sure I would like Ann Arbor much better than Durham. I went to undergrad in NYC and I'm not sure how I would deal with Durham's alleged crappiness after going to school in Manhattan. But having visited neither school, it's probably not right of me to judge. I'm just going off of what everyone else has said. Coming from NYC, both college towns will give you rural culture shock. Ann Arbor may be closer to Detroit metro, but I hardly find that a plus.
- I really dislike the cold and am fearful of driving in snow - but that doesn't mean I couldn't suck it up and deal with it for three years.This is pretty legitimate - if you really don't like cold, Michigan isn't the place to be. But you've lived in New York, so you can clearly deal with a winter
- Duke's smaller class size appeals to me because I've always gone to huge schools.This is a more substantive consideration than weather, but it's honestly a pretty minor distinction. Michigan is reducing class size, and Duke isn't THAT small. If you want small, intimate class size, head for Chicago, Cornell or Stanford
- As a liberal minority female who doesn't drink much, I'm a little apprehensive about Duke's southern "fratty" culture. This might be a concern for an undergraduate, but you'd be surprised how removed law students are from the university culture at large. The only law school that tries to live up to it's 'culture' reputation is UVA.
- Michigan's admissions staff has been so nice to me. You'll actually never speak to them again after you start your first class

Thank you for addressing these concerns individually.

I actually laughed at the last bullet point. I should rephrase that. I went to a huge undergrad and I despised their bureaucratic administration. It was clear that students were nothing but numbers and money to them. They sneaked in hidden fees (e.g. charging double by accident, charging for insurance that I waived out of, charging for housing without giving me housing) and threw gigantic fits when I asked them to remove those fees. I was always on hold for hours (8 hours one time!) when I called their various offices. The people who worked in their offices were typically short-tempered and always rude. In short, the administration was well-known for being inaccessible and difficult to deal with.

On the other hand, I was charmed by Michigan's responsive and caring administration. They email me often to make sure that I'm doing okay with the housing search and to ask if I need anything. They personally called me a few times. When I email them, they email back within the same day. Duke, on the other hand, has never called me, and takes a few days or over a week to answer my emails. I know it's a small thing to complain about, but it made it seem like Michigan had a more tight-knit and kind community than Duke, which, again, has always seemed kind of douchey to me for whatever reason. Maybe it's their devotion to sports, maybe it's Tucker Max and Richard Nixon, maybe it's the southern location, I don't know why, but I've weird vibes about Duke. I realize those vibes are founded on ridiculous factors and are probably unwarranted though.

Sounds like you went to NYU undergrad. I've heard the stories. Either way, please do yourself the favor of dropping the impression that you are 'more than just a number' to Michigan adcoms: you are precisely a number, and they work hard to convince you to help them maintain those numbers (whether it be yield data or gpa/lsat medians). Regardless, it sounds like you really just don't like Duke and couldn't see yourself going there and that your mind is already made up. this isn't uncommon: we constantly rationalize our choices and apply these broad aspersions when it's more of a gut thing. I can try to impress upon you that your fears about Duke are misguided, but I'm not sure that will make any difference.

They are peer institutions. Sounds like you want Michigan; go for it and don't look back.

To be fair, this mindset is common enough that it in effect becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I really do think there is a self-selection feedback loop going on that does have real effects on school cultures. Chicago is known as a relatively conservative thinktank, and lo and behold a disproportionate number of Chicago Law students seem to be right-leaning and of the introspective/academic bent. Penn harps on "collegiality" like it's going out of style, and what-do-you-know it attracts very laid back, team-oriented and un-gunnerish students on the whole.

I could go on, and obviously this could all be BS based only on my limited personal experience and preconceptions, but bottom line is I think there's reason to suspect school (including UG) reputations have some effect on the kind of students who go there, particularly those like OP who have a choice among peer schools. I mean it definitely had an effect on my decision between similar offers.

I realize this is borderline shitposting and I in no way approve of my message, but alls I'm sayin' is OP's line of thought here is not entirely without rationale.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[ilikebaseball]

When you guys say that a school "matches" another school's offer, do you mean they offer the same amount of money? Or they raise the scholly to where the COA would be the same?

[cron1834]

Mich is definitely the right choice for me, OP, but it seems like Duke makes more sense for you. You don't like large University bureaucracies, and Mich is huge. You don't like the cold, and AA is cold. You're from the east coast/want the east coast, and AA is Midwest.

You seem to be of the impression that at Duke you'll be obligated to attend lacrosse team rape parties, and at Mich you'll be smoking weed at Dean Z's house discussing gay marriage. I'm MOSTLY sure neither of these will happen...

[Arboreal]

My concerns at this point boil down to the culture and other small subjective factors.

- I'm sure I would like Ann Arbor much better than Durham. I went to undergrad in NYC and I'm not sure how I would deal with Durham's alleged crappiness after going to school in Manhattan. But having visited neither school, it's probably not right of me to judge. I'm just going off of what everyone else has said. Coming from NYC, both college towns will give you rural culture shock. Ann Arbor may be closer to Detroit metro, but I hardly find that a plus.
- I really dislike the cold and am fearful of driving in snow - but that doesn't mean I couldn't suck it up and deal with it for three years.This is pretty legitimate - if you really don't like cold, Michigan isn't the place to be. But you've lived in New York, so you can clearly deal with a winter
- Duke's smaller class size appeals to me because I've always gone to huge schools.This is a more substantive consideration than weather, but it's honestly a pretty minor distinction. Michigan is reducing class size, and Duke isn't THAT small. If you want small, intimate class size, head for Chicago, Cornell or Stanford
- As a liberal minority female who doesn't drink much, I'm a little apprehensive about Duke's southern "fratty" culture. This might be a concern for an undergraduate, but you'd be surprised how removed law students are from the university culture at large. The only law school that tries to live up to it's 'culture' reputation is UVA.
- Michigan's admissions staff has been so nice to me. You'll actually never speak to them again after you start your first class

Thank you for addressing these concerns individually.

I actually laughed at the last bullet point. I should rephrase that. I went to a huge undergrad and I despised their bureaucratic administration. It was clear that students were nothing but numbers and money to them. They sneaked in hidden fees (e.g. charging double by accident, charging for insurance that I waived out of, charging for housing without giving me housing) and threw gigantic fits when I asked them to remove those fees. I was always on hold for hours (8 hours one time!) when I called their various offices. The people who worked in their offices were typically short-tempered and always rude. In short, the administration was well-known for being inaccessible and difficult to deal with.

On the other hand, I was charmed by Michigan's responsive and caring administration. They email me often to make sure that I'm doing okay with the housing search and to ask if I need anything. They personally called me a few times. When I email them, they email back within the same day. Duke, on the other hand, has never called me, and takes a few days or over a week to answer my emails. I know it's a small thing to complain about, but it made it seem like Michigan had a more tight-knit and kind community than Duke, which, again, has always seemed kind of douchey to me for whatever reason. Maybe it's their devotion to sports, maybe it's Tucker Max and Richard Nixon, maybe it's the southern location, I don't know why, but I've weird vibes about Duke. I realize those vibes are founded on ridiculous factors and are probably unwarranted though.

Sounds like you went to NYU undergrad. I've heard the stories.

More NYU trolling from the bagelmeister!
I kid and I kid and I kid.

[kimkardashian]

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[kimkardashian]

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[NYSprague]

Do you think that Michigan and Duke differ in terms of international reputation?

I fluently speak three dialects of Chinese and basically everyone I know is encouraging me to find work related to China/Hong Kong in the future. I don't really love the idea of traveling back and forth between the US and China because I'm not keen on being apart from my future husband (and hypothetical kids?), but I do have the majority of my family in China/Hong Kong so it would make sense.

Don't get so far ahead of yourself.
You need to visit these schools. Just deposit at both.