Law Review at MVP or Median at CCN? Which would you take? Forum

[jbagelboy]

Median at HCC won't get you any job that grade on LR at Penn or UVa wouldn't. The advantage of those slightly more competitive programs is their pull with the most elite firms in New York and in harvard's case DC. For most law firms, judges ect the median kid at a higher school won't be as impressive as the law review top 10% student at a very good school with lower placement for bottom half of the class.

HCC? Are you fucking kidding me?

OP, don't transfer.

Go look at HLS EIP threads over the years, and the advice given out this year, and tell me what firms 2H/8P will snag you that top 10%/Law Review at Penn won't. Same goes for below stone at CLS. And consider all the firms you're actually locked out of at that level. Consider Sullivan: you can easily reach CB top of the class mich or penn, but you won't stand much of a chance shy of 3.6 or 5H's.

If we're talking about elite firm placement, this is just the reality.

Once you get to law school and work at a firm your perspective on this will change, I promise you.

2 Hs is below median to some degree. You're comparing below median to top 10% with law review.

5 Hs is like top 40% or something. Show me that other non-HYS schools are placing top 40% kids into elite law firms.

You're guessing as to class rank as much as I am, but the comparison we are actually drawing here is median at a school with better placement compared to top 10% law review at a school with slightly worse. Call it 3H if you prefer. It's an asinine OP to start with, but are you disputing my statement that there aren't firms you can reach coming median from harvard/chicago/columbia that you can't get from top 10%/LR at penn or uva? That's the question here.

and to your 'show me' point, this isn't a dogfight on elite firm placement. I don't have Chicago numbers but Regulus produced a pretty comprehensive list which showed the % of kids getting elite firms (V5 + boutiques) and it was pretty convincing. As far as CLS is concerned, I do have the honors report which breaks along top 40%ish and if you're actually curious about any firm in particular I will tell you in pm.

[ph14]

You're guessing as to class rank as much as I am, but the comparison we are actually drawing here is median at a school with better placement compared to top 10% law review at a school with slightly worse. Call it 3H if you prefer. It's an asinine OP to start with, but are you disputing my statement that there aren't firms you can reach coming median from harvard/chicago/columbia that you can't get from top 10%/LR at penn or uva? That's the question here.

and to your 'show me' point, this isn't a dogfight on elite firm placement. I don't have Chicago numbers but Regulus produced a pretty comprehensive list which showed the % of kids getting elite firms (V5 + boutiques) and it was pretty convincing. As far as CLS is concerned, I do have the honors report which breaks along top 40%ish and if you're actually curious about any firm in particular I will tell you in pm.

There aren't firms from Yale or Stanford that you can get at median but that top 10% and law review at MVPB can't get.

[rpupkin]

Once you get to law school and work at a firm your perspective on this will change, I promise you.

Aren't you a 1L with an SA? You're hardly in a position to lecture others about their lack of perspective. You post here a lot and say some sensible things, but you can't speak with any authority about the hiring preferences of "elite firms." Spending five weeks (or whatever) as a 1L SA is not really "working at a firm."

[jbagelboy]

You're guessing as to class rank as much as I am, but the comparison we are actually drawing here is median at a school with better placement compared to top 10% law review at a school with slightly worse. Call it 3H if you prefer. It's an asinine OP to start with, but are you disputing my statement that there aren't firms you can reach coming median from harvard/chicago/columbia that you can't get from top 10%/LR at penn or uva? That's the question here.

and to your 'show me' point, this isn't a dogfight on elite firm placement. I don't have Chicago numbers but Regulus produced a pretty comprehensive list which showed the % of kids getting elite firms (V5 + boutiques) and it was pretty convincing. As far as CLS is concerned, I do have the honors report which breaks along top 40%ish and if you're actually curious about any firm in particular I will tell you in pm.

There aren't firms from Yale or Stanford that you can get at median but that top 10% and law review at MVPB can't get.

sure, that's probably true too (although I don't know about yale since they don't have a 'median' per se and I'm not really sure how firms distinguish b/t students there other then on soft factors). why are you nitpicking? I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's pride or give their school a hard time. sorry I wasn't more comprehensive

[jbagelboy]

Once you get to law school and work at a firm your perspective on this will change, I promise you.

Aren't you a 1L with an SA? You're hardly in a position to lecture others about their lack of perspective. You post here a lot and say some sensible things, but you can't speak with any authority about the hiring preferences of "elite firms." Spending five weeks (or whatever) as a 1L SA is not really "working at a firm."

not referring to my own experience. what is it with the ad hominem. I haven't worked full time at one of those firms but I am aware of the cutoffs. of course i'm sure different partners prefer to hire from different sets of schools, but the statements I've made here hold pretty generally unless you have information to the contrary

[ph14]

sure, that's probably true too (although I don't know about yale since they don't have a 'median' per se and I'm not really sure how firms distinguish b/t students there other then on soft factors). why are you nitpicking? I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's pride or give their school a hard time. sorry I wasn't more comprehensive

I don't mean to nitpick and I realize that "HCC" was probably inadvertent, but I still felt like responding.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[84651846190]

Grade on MVP >> Median CCN

Median CCN > Write on MVP at median

Write on at MVP at median > TTTransfer at CCN

/thread

[jbagelboy]

sure, that's probably true too (although I don't know about yale since they don't have a 'median' per se and I'm not really sure how firms distinguish b/t students there other then on soft factors). why are you nitpicking? I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's pride or give their school a hard time. sorry I wasn't more comprehensive

I don't mean to nitpick and I realize that "HCC" was probably inadvertent, but I still felt like responding.

just for the record, I'm sure many competitive firm offices have lower cutoffs for harvard students than the other t14's, if that's what you were looking for.

[ph14]

sure, that's probably true too (although I don't know about yale since they don't have a 'median' per se and I'm not really sure how firms distinguish b/t students there other then on soft factors). why are you nitpicking? I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's pride or give their school a hard time. sorry I wasn't more comprehensive

I don't mean to nitpick and I realize that "HCC" was probably inadvertent, but I still felt like responding.

just for the record, I'm sure many competitive firm offices have lower cutoffs for harvard students than the other t14's, if that's what you were looking for.

I read this as extremely patronizing, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not really what I was looking for either. I do think it's correct that, if you could predict your rank ahead of time, MVBP law review + top 10% might be better for getting an elite firm, but I think that's true not just for "HCC" but for HYSCCN.

[jbagelboy]

sure, that's probably true too (although I don't know about yale since they don't have a 'median' per se and I'm not really sure how firms distinguish b/t students there other then on soft factors). why are you nitpicking? I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's pride or give their school a hard time. sorry I wasn't more comprehensive

I don't mean to nitpick and I realize that "HCC" was probably inadvertent, but I still felt like responding.

just for the record, I'm sure many competitive firm offices have lower cutoffs for harvard students than the other t14's, if that's what you were looking for.

I read this as extremely patronizing, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

i know it's impossible to type or interpret another's typing with the proper intonation, but I'm actually not trying to be facetious, and that seemed to be what you and jingosaur were going after me for. I don't think we actually disagree about anything

edit: okay I just got your edit. I see & agree

I also don't understand the point of this thread. if you transfer in to a top school, presumably you have strong grades and therefore wouldn't be median. not sure why this decision would ever be relevant ex ante

[rpupkin]

Once you get to law school and work at a firm your perspective on this will change, I promise you.

Aren't you a 1L with an SA? You're hardly in a position to lecture others about their lack of perspective. You post here a lot and say some sensible things, but you can't speak with any authority about the hiring preferences of "elite firms." Spending five weeks (or whatever) as a 1L SA is not really "working at a firm."

not referring to my own experience. what is it with the ad hominem. I haven't worked full time at one of those firms but I am aware of the cutoffs. of course i'm sure different partners prefer to hire from different sets of schools, but the statements I've made here hold pretty generally unless you have information to the contrary

I don't think "ad hominem" means what you think it does.

You seemed to be speaking from personal experience ("I promise you") as part of your justification for your "HCC" tier. I think pointing out your lack of relevant experience is fair, as others here may be taking you seriously.

[ph14]

i know it's impossible to type or interpret another's typing with the proper intonation, but I'm actually not trying to be facetious, and that seemed to be what you and jingosaur were going after me for. I don't think we actually disagree about anything

Me either. See my stealth edit, above.

[jbagelboy]

I don't think "ad hominem" means what you think it does.

lol. it's one of the more classic tropes on TLS, and goes hand in hand with our relative anonymity, irritating lawyering nitpicking, and general unnecessary hostility. I make a statement. Rather than responding to that statement, you attack the credibility of the speaker; if it's on an unrelated issue, then it's the standard fallacy. You believe this is a somewhat related issue, such that it informs the credibility of the statement, but it's still ad hominem. Your post said nothing about my substantive comment, instead you referred to tangential personal details of the speaker, me.

[ph14]

I don't think "ad hominem" means what you think it does.

lol. it's one of the more classic tropes on TLS, and goes hand in hand with our relative anonymity, irritating lawyering nitpicking, and general unnecessary hostility. I make a statement. Rather than responding to that statement, you attack the credibility of the speaker; if it's on an unrelated issue, then it's the standard fallacy. You believe this is a somewhat related issue, such that it informs the credibility of the statement, but it's still ad hominem. Your post said nothing about my substantive comment, instead you referred to tangential personal details of the speaker, me.

He impeached your credibility as a witness. I'll call it admissible.

/too much bar studying

[jbagelboy]

I don't think "ad hominem" means what you think it does.

lol. it's one of the more classic tropes on TLS, and goes hand in hand with our relative anonymity, irritating lawyering nitpicking, and general unnecessary hostility. I make a statement. Rather than responding to that statement, you attack the credibility of the speaker; if it's on an unrelated issue, then it's the standard fallacy. You believe this is a somewhat related issue, such that it informs the credibility of the statement, but it's still ad hominem. Your post said nothing about my substantive comment, instead you referred to tangential personal details of the speaker, me.

He impeached your credibility as a witness. I'll call it admissible.

/too much bar studying

haha. sadly, we're not paid nearly as much to wax litigiously against each other on TLS as we are to prepare actual defenses for clients. regardless, it's ad hominem & unnecessary. I tire of internet brawl

also GL sitting for bar. got a nice trip planned for august?

[ph14]

I don't think "ad hominem" means what you think it does.

lol. it's one of the more classic tropes on TLS, and goes hand in hand with our relative anonymity, irritating lawyering nitpicking, and general unnecessary hostility. I make a statement. Rather than responding to that statement, you attack the credibility of the speaker; if it's on an unrelated issue, then it's the standard fallacy. You believe this is a somewhat related issue, such that it informs the credibility of the statement, but it's still ad hominem. Your post said nothing about my substantive comment, instead you referred to tangential personal details of the speaker, me.

He impeached your credibility as a witness. I'll call it admissible.

/too much bar studying

haha. sadly, we're not paid nearly as much to wax litigiously against each other on TLS as we are to prepare actual defenses for clients. regardless, it's ad hominem & unnecessary. I tire of internet brawl

also GL sitting for bar. got a nice trip planned for august?

I'll pm you so as to not derail this on-topic thread anymore than I already have.

[2014]

Median at HCC won't get you any job that grade on LR at Penn or UVa wouldn't. The advantage of those slightly more competitive programs is their pull with the most elite firms in New York and in harvard's case DC. For most law firms, judges ect the median kid at a higher school won't be as impressive as the law review top 10% student at a very good school with lower placement for bottom half of the class.

HCC? Are you fucking kidding me?

OP, don't transfer.

Go look at HLS EIP threads over the years, and the advice given out this year, and tell me what firms 2H/8P will snag you that top 10%/Law Review at Penn won't. Same goes for below stone at CLS. And consider all the firms you're actually locked out of at that level. Consider Sullivan: you can easily reach CB top of the class mich or penn, but you won't stand much of a chance shy of 3.6 or 5H's.

If we're talking about elite firm placement, this is just the reality.

Once you get to law school and work at a firm your perspective on this will change, I promise you.

2 Hs is below median to some degree. You're comparing below median to top 10% with law review.

5 Hs is like top 40% or something. Show me that other non-HYS schools are placing top 40% kids into elite law firms.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=231236

??????????????

[Real Madrid]

You're guessing as to class rank as much as I am, but the comparison we are actually drawing here is median at a school with better placement compared to top 10% law review at a school with slightly worse. Call it 3H if you prefer. It's an asinine OP to start with, but are you disputing my statement that there aren't firms you can reach coming median from harvard/chicago/columbia that you can't get from top 10%/LR at penn or uva? That's the question here.

and to your 'show me' point, this isn't a dogfight on elite firm placement. I don't have Chicago numbers but Regulus produced a pretty comprehensive list which showed the % of kids getting elite firms (V5 + boutiques) and it was pretty convincing. As far as CLS is concerned, I do have the honors report which breaks along top 40%ish and if you're actually curious about any firm in particular I will tell you in pm.

One of these things is not like the others.