Married with children Forum

[Clyde Frog]

When I said UGPA, I meant at my current institution. I plan on writing an addendum for that 0.34 because I never even attended class for more than a month before I had to leave campus. As far as criminal convictions, I have substantial proof that all of the trouble I was in resulted from a documented drug additction. I have documented proof of my rehabilitation and a history of service and volunteer work since my convictions. Not to mention the fact that two of my LOR's are written from individuals who I had personally wronged in my past, that are speaking about my transformation. I have a few other things that are distinctly unique about me which would indicate the fact that I have overcome numerous obstacles to be sitting where I am. I also have some excellent softs from some summers that I spent in a leadership program for scholars in D.C. I'm confident thar my application will look strong and will be a breathe of fresh air for someone reading 500 per day. My convictions may hinder me, but I'm guessing they won't. Either way, I'll won't end up a jealous sap trolling forums looking to dig up dirt on individuals with nice numbers. FYI: my falsification charge stemmed from when I gave an officer the wrong name when I was high!! Lol

Nice numbers? You have a gpa most likely in the low 3's because you turned in a 0.34 for a semester, and no LSAT score. Those aren't numbers to brag about.

I'm not trying to offend you, just giving a dose of reality. Are you going to write in your addendum that you are only dishonest when you are high? Shit looks bad dude. You have seven felony convictions and to top it off you had children when you committed these felonies, which speaks a great deal about your character. Law schools are probably going to look at your c&f statement and be like, "da fuq!?!"

I think he's a troll. If he's not, then he better have a really, really good addendum and a stellar LSAT score.

Pretty sure he's not a troll. He was looking for study partners in earlier posts.

[A. Nony Mouse]

One of the reasons why a documented drug addiction can be of concern to law schools is that lawyers have a particularly high rate of substance abuse issues. So while you've done incredibly well to overcome that, OP, adcomms may still be leery given the possibility of relapsing once in law school/practice. In that respect, the longer it's been since your addiction issues, the better - 2012 may still be uncomfortably close. It sounds like you have done a lot of things well-designed to minimize the effects of this past, but I don't think it will be absolutely neutralized.

And people are right that the .34 counts. An addendum will help, but that number goes into the GPA that schools have to report for the USNWR rankings. They may well look past it, but you won't be the same as an applicant with a 4.0.

(It's also not creepy/rude for someone to look at your other posts. That's why post histories exist.)

[bjsesq]

One of the reasons why a documented drug addiction can be of concern to law schools is that lawyers have a particularly high rate of substance abuse issues. So while you've done incredibly well to overcome that, OP, adcomms may still be leery given the possibility of relapsing once in law school/practice. In that respect, the longer it's been since your addiction issues, the better - 2012 may still be uncomfortably close. It sounds like you have done a lot of things well-designed to minimize the effects of this past, but I don't think it will be absolutely neutralized.

And people are right that the .34 counts. An addendum will help, but that number goes into the GPA that schools have to report for the USNWR rankings. They may well look past it, but you won't be the same as an applicant with a 4.0.

(It's also not creepy/rude for someone to look at your other posts. That's why post histories exist.)

Why do you hate the man for trying to break out the hood? Only sunshine and roses posts are welcome itt, bitch.

[Rexdan]

One of the reasons why a documented drug addiction can be of concern to law schools is that lawyers have a particularly high rate of substance abuse issues. So while you've done incredibly well to overcome that, OP, adcomms may still be leery given the possibility of relapsing once in law school/practice. In that respect, the longer it's been since your addiction issues, the better - 2012 may still be uncomfortably close. It sounds like you have done a lot of things well-designed to minimize the effects of this past, but I don't think it will be absolutely neutralized.

And people are right that the .34 counts. An addendum will help, but that number goes into the GPA that schools have to report for the USNWR rankings. They may well look past it, but you won't be the same as an applicant with a 4.0.

(It's also not creepy/rude for someone to look at your other posts. That's why post histories exist.)

Why do you hate the man for trying to break out the hood? Only sunshine and roses posts are welcome itt, bitch.

I just pictured the scene from "Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice In The Hood" where a sniper takes out a guy who did, in fact, make it out of the hood.

Since he's being serious, as Clyde pointed out, I think that he should bolster up his softs. Maybe another LOR from someone OP knows on an academic level? The PS & DS will also be in his favor, if crafted well.

[Clyde Frog]

The Cleveland Cavaliers came back from 3-1 down against the Golden State Warriors.

[Rexdan]

Getting admitted into the bar is no joke. I had 10 felony charges back in 2010 for drug related charges that were dismissed and expunged after a diversion program. I've talked to c&f lawyers, and every state law board in the states that I'm applying to law school, and repeat offenders and recent serious (felony) offenses are a big no-no. My numbers will be around 3.8-3.85 gpa/179 lsat and I was told that I'll probably still get dinged at a few schools even though my track record has been spotless ever since.

That sucks man. I'm glad that you were able to get them dismissed & expunged and that you're able to move forward with your life. Just to be clear, though, I wasn't saying that OP would still be able to get into schools like HYS with his current track record. As you mentioned, heads will roll once someone reads his c&f statement.

Are you still planning on applying to the schools that you may get dinged at?

[A. Nony Mouse]

One of the reasons why a documented drug addiction can be of concern to law schools is that lawyers have a particularly high rate of substance abuse issues. So while you've done incredibly well to overcome that, OP, adcomms may still be leery given the possibility of relapsing once in law school/practice. In that respect, the longer it's been since your addiction issues, the better - 2012 may still be uncomfortably close. It sounds like you have done a lot of things well-designed to minimize the effects of this past, but I don't think it will be absolutely neutralized.

And people are right that the .34 counts. An addendum will help, but that number goes into the GPA that schools have to report for the USNWR rankings. They may well look past it, but you won't be the same as an applicant with a 4.0.

(It's also not creepy/rude for someone to look at your other posts. That's why post histories exist.)

Why do you hate the man for trying to break out the hood? Only sunshine and roses posts are welcome itt, bitch.

Good luck! Follow your dreams!

[Clyde Frog]

The Cleveland Cavaliers came back from 3-1 down against the Golden State Warriors.

[rbrown0824]

Yeah I undestand what you all are saying and I appreciate the input. As I said, I have numerous other factors that would contribute to my application as examples of hurdles that I have overcome, but decided not to list in them here. Not saying they are excuses, but they would definitely make for a great motion picture. Im not trying to come off as arrogant, I'm just being confident. You have to understand that this is my actual life. I hear the same old tune about criminal convictions everyday. If I don't exude confidence in myself, my abilities, and the positive impact that my story could have then who will? My oldest son has a poster in his kindergarten class that reads, " We all make mistakes, but the beautiful thing about life is that we all have the opportunity to learn from them and move forward." If I dont demonstrate this principle with my life, how will my sons ever believe it? You are right when you say that some of these bad decisions were made after my first wo children were born. I began using drugs at 17, so unfortunately I was already a full blown addict when they came into the world. Nevertheless, my children have never wanted for anything and I have always been a daily presence (aside from a brief period of incarceration)in their lives, attempting to give them all the love they deserve, and despite my own struggles, to be the best father that I could be. I actually don't have seven felonies; I have one felony and six misdemeanors (none of them for child endangering).People have gotten into law school and gained admission to the bar with worse records. I wouldn't blame "the man" for my circumstances because I was the one making the choices. Ironic that you mention the scene in the movie about a guy making it out of the hood getting killed because we just actually had two young men with the promising potential to do great things, murdered within the last three weeks. Both were unintended targets. I come from a place where people are dying, where the drop-out rate is ungodly, and where jobs are abundant (because the applicant pool doesnt have the requisite skills to be considered employable i.e. basic literacy), and where father's are scarce. Again, I'm not making any excuses but my story has broad implications and the ability to impact lives and inspire hope across the board. I havent even begun to speak about any of my own personal experiences-aside from addiction. I appreciate the "reality check", and I apologize for coming off in a negative manner. I'm just adamant about being my own cheerleader because my future isn't the only one riding on my success, and my failures aren't the only ones influecing the lives of my children. I come from a long line of addicts, alcoholics, and life-sentences on both sides of my family. I'm determined that this cycle will end with me. Again, thanks for the input

[bjsesq]

That's all well and good, but if you are going to get input that is worth a shit, you need to be honest with us. Otherwise, what is the point besides it being a feel-good circlejerk?

[emkay625]

You might consider consulting an attorney to figure out which states have policies that will make it more difficult for you to be admitted to the bar than others. That should be a consideration when you think about school choice.

[rbrown0824]

I wasn't being dishonest. I included everything that I wanted you to consider in your evaluation. Check the link FYI: 62 felonies, admission to law school, and passed the bar. And check the time line as well. The events weren't that far removed from the success

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ ... erxml.html

[Rexdan]

Getting admitted into the bar is no joke. I had 10 felony charges back in 2010 for drug related charges that were dismissed and expunged after a diversion program. I've talked to c&f lawyers, and every state law board in the states that I'm applying to law school, and repeat offenders and recent serious (felony) offenses are a big no-no. My numbers will be around 3.8-3.85 gpa/179 lsat and I was told that I'll probably still get dinged at a few schools even though my track record has been spotless ever since.

That sucks man. I'm glad that you were able to get them dismissed & expunged and that you're able to move forward with your life. Just to be clear, though, I wasn't saying that OP would still be able to get into schools like HYS with his current track record. As you mentioned, heads will roll once someone reads his c&f statement.

Are you still planning on applying to the schools that you may get dinged at?

Yeah I'll cover the T14. I wouldn't have to put anything down for Harvard and Duke under their c&f policies, so that's good news. Will be interesting to see how my cycle plays out.

Awesome man. Glad to hear it! I think that, with those numbers, you're gonna have some fun with the application process.

[bjsesq]

@ "everything I wanted you to consider"

So: don't consider my actual GPA or criminal record, which actually matter in the process. A lot. Ok, sport.

[emkay625]

Hello All,

I'm a 26 yr old male with a wife and three children (6yrs 3yrs, 1yr) living in Ohio. I don't want to necessarily limit my law school options by only considering schools in my area, but the fact that I have a family to support ways heavily in my decision-making process. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice/experience on choosing a law school based on my circumstances. Thanks

Also, to answer your original question: I don't have children but I am married. Ultimately, cost of living was a huge factor for me. I ended up attending a lower-ranked school than a few others I had been admitted to because it was important to us that we would be able to survive on just my husband's salary, and some places in the northeast weren't going to cut it. You also might consider the ability of your spouse to get a job (more likely in a large city v. a small town) and the cost of child care. Also look into the university's child care assistance programs, if they have one.

[NYSprague]

Just study hard for the LSAT and come back with a score. If you want to get some idea about character and fitness, your local bar association can recommend someone who can meet with you for an initial consultation that can at least address Ohio. It shouldn't cost much for the first meeting.

LSAC will calculate your GPA. One terrible semester won't kill you necessarily. But focus on the LSAT and use the study guides here. You need to do well.

Being defensive doesn't help you here or with admissions.

[emkay625]

Thought this would be about Al Bundy & the early 90's comedy. Somewhat disappointed .

This is an under appreciated contribution to this thread.

[rbrown0824]

@ "everything I wanted you to consider"

So: don't consider my actual GPA or criminal record, which actually matter in the process. A lot. Ok, sport.

Right. Notice the scope shift my friend. I never asked about admission.

[Clyde Frog]

I wasn't being dishonest. I included everything that I wanted you to consider in your evaluation. Check the link FYI: 62 felonies, admission to law school, and passed the bar. And check the time line as well. The events weren't that far removed from the success

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ ... erxml.html

It states that he got shutdown by every law school he applied for three years until the University of Oregon accepted him. He most likely got in because he had a prestigious internship with Nike (who basically run UofOregon), and btw it still took years of rejection. This was his only period of criminal behavior, while you had a streak of seven years. He will still most likely have a tough time finding a job since Oregon law is shit.


Great story

[rbrown0824]

I wasn't being dishonest. I included everything that I wanted you to consider in your evaluation. Check the link FYI: 62 felonies, admission to law school, and passed the bar. And check the time line as well. The events weren't that far removed from the success

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ ... erxml.html

It states that he got shutdown by every law school he applied for three years until the University of Oregon accepted him. He most likely got in because he had a prestigious internship with Nike (who basically run UofOregon), and btw it still took years of rejection. This was his only period of criminal behavior, while you had a streak of seven years. He will still most likely have a tough time finding a job since Oregon law is shit.


Great story

C'mon man, read it again and then change your comment accordingly. You scored a 179 on the LSAT so I know your Reading Comp skills have to be better than that. In addition, the point isn't where he went to school necessarily; it's that it's possible to pass the bar against insurmountable odds....an organized crime charge? Really? LOL

[Clyde Frog]

I wasn't being dishonest. I included everything that I wanted you to consider in your evaluation. Check the link FYI: 62 felonies, admission to law school, and passed the bar. And check the time line as well. The events weren't that far removed from the success

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ ... erxml.html

It states that he got shutdown by every law school he applied for three years until the University of Oregon accepted him. He most likely got in because he had a prestigious internship with Nike (who basically run UofOregon), and btw it still took years of rejection. This was his only period of criminal behavior, while you had a streak of seven years. He will still most likely have a tough time finding a job since Oregon law is shit.


Great story

C'mon man, read it again and then change your comment accordingly. You scored a 179 on the LSAT so I know your Reading Comp skills have to be better than that. In addition, the point isn't where he went to school necessarily; it's that it's possible to pass the bar against insurmountable odds....an organized crime charge? Really? LOL

This guy had one instance in his life where he made a mistake, yet you had a recent 6 year period of it. He also, as I mentioned, had an internship with Nike which would have a considerable amount of pull when applying for admission to the bar. By all means pursue your dream as a lawyer, but it may be a long, long time before you're admitted to the bar.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Keep in mind you are posting on a board filled with law students and some lawyers, and that being risk-averse and looking for all the possible obstacles is pretty much what lawyers do.

As for the original question, I think the biggest issues will be what they are for everyone - minimizing debt and maximizing job opportunities - but perhaps even more so for you. I don't have kids, but I chose the school I attended in part because it meant we didn't have to move and my husband didn't have to find a new job (or we didn't have to live apart). In your case I would definitely take a full ride over prestige. It will also depend on whether your wife is working and whether your kids are in school or day care, and what kind of school you want them to attend. Also, I'd suggest attending where you plan to practice, so you're not moving your family again in 3 years. But those are just some random thoughts.

[TheSpanishMain]

OP, please understand that no one is rooting for you to fail. It's great that you recognized you were screwing up your life and are correcting that. I hope you destroy the LSAT, go to a good school on a fat scholarship, and are eventually admitted to the bar and able to be a public defender (which is what it sounds like you want to do.)

Thing is, you're kind of giving off this "None of this stuff is a big deal, isn't it great that I've succeeded?" vibe. This stuff probably CAN be overcome, but it's going to be a bit of an uphill battle and you're going to have to show that you recognize how serious some of this stuff was. You can't just laugh it off or assume adcomms will laugh it off.

You also haven't succeeded yet, at least at the whole law school thing. You may very well succeed and I hope you do, but you're kind of doing the touchdown dance before you've actually made it into the end zone.

[rbrown0824]

Thanks everyone! I truly appreciate all of the feedback.

Yes, he had one instance which amounted to 62 felonies and an organized crime charge. He was still actively participating in the crime ring until January 2006, served an 8 month sentence, and went to Oregon Law school in 2009. Now even if he was prosecuted and found guilty on the last date of his criminal activity (which we know he wasn't-the article explicitly states that he went home for a few months before ever finding out about the charges) that 8 month sentence is the better portion of a year. Now we are looking at late 2006 but more realistically, early 2007 before he has finished his entire sentence. It then goes on to say that he was put on probation for a period of 7 years. Therefore, it is safe to assume that this man was still on papers when he was accepted into school and probably even when he applied for admission to the bar. I don't know what kinda school Oregon Law is, but this guy graduated with a 3.0 and an undisclosed LSAT score. We can safely assume that barring an amazing LSAT score, he wasn't looking to go anywhere spectacular anyway. Further, the chronology of the article suggest that his internship at Nike was attained while he was in law school. Even if it did play a role with his gaining admission to the bar, you have no idea where I've interned or how those places would impact the bar for me. It would suffice to say, at least one place was more prestigious than Nike (if you can believe it) and those were only undergraduate experiences; I still have space for some law school contacts. My point is that I have a negative history, and an upward trend. This guy, even though his experience was a singular event, had more strikes and harsher violations against him when applying and was still able to defy the odds. Our timelines for our last offenses committed were roughly the same; if it was possible for him, then it should be possible for me. I don't expect to get a pat on the back or a "you can do it!" from anyone (although I sincerely appreciate the ones that I've received), I was simply wondering if I should consider schools from outside of Ohio once I get accepted-in light of the fact that I have a family. Thank you for all of your feedback....especially those who either kept their responses within the scope of my inquiry, or those who provided words of encouragement. I'm now going to take my 3 kids, my niece, and my nephew for ice-cream and to play at the park. See you all at the top!! (drops mic)

Edit: I apologize to those of you who felt that I was being defensive, haughty, dismissive of my circumstances, or more optimistic than warranted. These were my natural reactions to individuals digging around my post history in attempt to cast me in a negative light. I mean seriously, I never even mentioned anything about admission, but when was asked, I disclosed the details (all of which were true) that I wanted you to know. I don't doubt that most of you have had extensive experience combing through applications and making recommendations, but I wasn't asking about my chances of admission. Where I come from, when someone goes out of their way to make you look bad, or when they offer some negative "reality check" that you never asked for, we call that "hatin" (if you grew up on the North side you might say "hating.") In my experience, this behavior is generally fueled by jealously. I'm a grown man, and I don't expect anyone to shield me from criticism. I know the world isn't all "sunshine and rainbows" so I'm don't complain when people wanna share a "healthy does of reality". In the same way, if you're going to hate, please don't complain about how I choose to respond to you. You can't say/do something offensive then get all sensitive when someone responds to you in an offensive (or arrogant) tone.

[bjsesq]

What, precisely, do you think we are jealous of?