Off Penn WL... Forum

[Nelson]

I got the vibe that life is golden at P.

Stop posting.

To OP: Penn at sticker is not worth it. Take it from someone with personal experience.

[sims1]

I got the vibe that life is golden at P.

Stop posting.

To OP: Penn at sticker is not worth it. Take it from someone with personal experience.

That seems a bit generalist don't you think...?

To OP: Just because some random person on the internet thinks paying sticker to a school that places 70% of its graduates in biglaw/federal clerkships is a bad idea doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's not cheap, but its employment stats alone can definitely justify the investment.

[Nelson]

I got the vibe that life is golden at P.

Stop posting.

To OP: Penn at sticker is not worth it. Take it from someone with personal experience.

That seems a bit generalist don't you think...?

To OP: Just because some random person on the internet thinks paying sticker to a school that places 70% of its graduates in biglaw/federal clerkships is a bad idea doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's not cheap, but its employment stats alone can definitely justify the investment.

care to share the circumstances when it makes sense from your trove of 0L knowledge on the subject? What do you think happens to the other 30%? Let alone what happens to the people who do get a big firm job.

[Hrun]

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/coreaves23

Is this you? A 4.09 GPA. Don't cancel your LSAT. If it is close to your PTing, you might have the option of sitting out this cycle or threaten UCLA to sit out this cycle if they don't give you a full scholarship. I would reapply with that GPA. If Northwestern's Dean is right, applications numbers aren't picking up any time soon.

http://fortune.com/2014/06/09/northwest ... -to-waste/

[ManoftheHour]

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/coreaves23

Is this you? A 4.06 GPA. Don't cancel you LSAT. If it is close to your PTing, you might have the option of sitting out this cycle or threaten UCLA to sit out this cycle if they don't give you a full scholarship. I would reapply with that GPA. If Northwestern's Dean is right, applications numbers aren't picking up any time soon.

http://fortune.com/2014/06/09/northwest ... -to-waste/

LSAT:162
LSDAS GPA:4.09

DUDE. RETAKE. Like 2 or 3 more points and you'll have a shot at full ride at ND and probably some serious $$ at lower T-14s. Higher than that....duuuuuuuuddddeee.

[jbagelboy]

I got the vibe that life is golden at P.

Stop posting.

To OP: Penn at sticker is not worth it. Take it from someone with personal experience.

That seems a bit generalist don't you think...?

To OP: Just because some random person on the internet thinks paying sticker to a school that places 70% of its graduates in biglaw/federal clerkships is a bad idea doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's not cheap, but its employment stats alone can definitely justify the investment.

This isn't even about Penn at sticker. There may be a defensible reason to attend under very specific circumstances. The huge problem is the k-jd 162 lsat with a 4.0+ gpa.

[03152016]

LSAT:162
LSDAS GPA:4.09

Sweet Jesus. OP, you're considering Penn at sticker with a 4.09 GPA? That's downright offensive.

[03152016]

I can't live your life for you, OP, but I can tell you you're doing it wrong.

[ManoftheHour]

OP, if I were you, I'd go for that Ruby. Leaving one retake left with that kind of GPA is pure insanity, especially since you're a K-JD.

[Synch]

Oh no. No, no no, no no no noooooo!

OP, for the love of god, don't rush into sticker debt with that GPA. Please, for my sake.

[sims1]

Since OP said he already studied for a year and a half for the LSAT and didn't break 170, I can understand why he may not want to have another go at it. It's easy to spam 'retake', however I sympathize with the feeling that there is no guarantee that reapplying next cycle will yield better results.

At the end of the day it's a pretty personal decision over the benefits of milking a killer GPA to its fullest extent by rewriting and potentially wasting a year to end up in the same position. That being said, even answering a few more questions right in September could save you $100K ++ ..

[Yea All Right]

So he might not get 170+ on a retake, but there's a pretty good chance he could get a 165+ given that he studies enough and the right way. His stellar GPA demonstrates that he has the work ethic to do so.

OP, congratulations on that awesome GPA while being an athlete, now go get the best out of it.

[BigZuck]

I got the vibe that life is golden at P.

Stop posting.

To OP: Penn at sticker is not worth it. Take it from someone with personal experience.

That seems a bit generalist don't you think...?

To OP: Just because some random person on the internet thinks paying sticker to a school that places 70% of its graduates in biglaw/federal clerkships is a bad idea doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's not cheap, but its employment stats alone can definitely justify the investment.

Dude

If there's one poster on here that you should listen to when he talks about the worth of Penn, it's Nelly. Why would you think you know more than he does on that topic? Because you visited LST?

OP- for the love of all things holy, please, please, please retake the LSAT if you don't have a phatty score increase.

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY BRO.

[ManoftheHour]

Since OP said he already studied for a year and a half for the LSAT and didn't break 170, I can understand why he may not want to have another go at it. It's easy to spam 'retake', however I sympathize with the feeling that there is no guarantee that reapplying next cycle will yield better results.

At the end of the day it's a pretty personal decision over the benefits of milking a killer GPA to its fullest extent by rewriting and potentially wasting a year to end up in the same position. That being said, even answering a few more questions right in September could save you $100K ++ ..

I studied for almost 2 years and took retook the LSAT and didn't really improve. Then I read the guides on here, analyzed the weaknesses in my study routine, and took it one final time. I didn't get a 170, but I increased my score by a good amount to make it worth it. The time he committed doesn't matter if it wasn't spent well. What if OP only read books and did timed PTs? Did he neglect drilling? What kind of books did he use? Even if there is no guarantee, the year isn't a waste if he isn't wasting it by doing nothing. He can work, save money, build work experience, travel, have fun, etc. And at the end of the day, even if he gets the same results, he knows in his heart he gave it his all and there was nothing more he can do. He put himself in the best possible position and he should be proud of that and move forward.

[03152016]

Since OP said he already studied for a year and a half for the LSAT and didn't break 170, I can understand why he may not want to have another go at it. It's easy to spam 'retake', however I sympathize with the feeling that there is no guarantee that reapplying next cycle will yield better results.

If the prep was focused and constructive, with the right materials and the right number of hours over a year and a half, and he still only scored a 162, that would be one thing. But given his GPA and my experience working with LSAT students, I find that highly unlikely.

[jingosaur]

Didn't really realize that OP had a 4.09. I change my opinion to RETAKE a third time and take a year off. You should be choosing between YHS and major money at CCN.

[NoChainz]

.

[Dafaq]

I got the vibe that life is golden at P.

To OP: Penn at sticker is not worth it. Take it from someone with personal experience.

And your personal experience would be what again?

How about the personal experience of the other 92.5%?

[BigZuck]

I got the vibe that life is golden at P.

To OP: Penn at sticker is not worth it. Take it from someone with personal experience.

And your personal experience would be what again?

How about the personal experience of the other 92.5%?

Dude. Look where he goes to school. Also, Nelly is like one of the most pro-law school people who regularly post in these types of threads. And from what I understand he likes Penn. I don't get all the pushback.

Also, even if you win and snag a 160K job you still lose because you're 250-300K in the hole. Taking out all those loans when you have an easy fix of just scoring higher on the LSAT is like literally one of the dumbest things you can do for your financial future.

[TheSpanishMain]

I know this is going to sound condescending and I don't mean for it to, but why is it that k-jd's always seem to be the most blase about taking on 250k in debt?

It's gotta be something about never working a real job, supporting yourself, paying taxes, etc. Until you do that for awhile, it's like all money is notional and doesn't really count or something.

[NYSprague]

I know this is going to sound condescending and I don't mean for it to, but why is it that k-jd's always seem to be the most blase about taking on 250k in debt?

It's gotta be something about never working a real job, supporting yourself, paying taxes, etc. Until you do that for awhile, it's like all money is notional and doesn't really count or something.

Maybe part of it, but even Rayiner who had a good job and work experience took on sticker
Though, schools were cheaper, no solid employment data was available and it wasn't obvious to people outside big law that salaries weren't going up.

[coreaves23]

......

[Nelson]

I got the vibe that life is golden at P.

To OP: Penn at sticker is not worth it. Take it from someone with personal experience.

And your personal experience would be what again?

How about the personal experience of the other 92.5%?

I go to Penn. I like Penn.

I had a great outcome that is far better than I hoped or expected. I did not pay sticker.

But even in my situation, my student loans are going to greatly constrain my ability to take career opportunities that would otherwise interest me.

I know people who had much worse outcomes than me who are now faced with the proposition of sticking with biglaw far longer than most are able just to put a dent in their loans large enough to allow them to move on.

Never mind the people my year who struck out at OCI, who had to deal with years of anxiety scrambling for any paying legal work.

There is no situation when it makes sense for a K-JD with a 4.0 UGPA to go to Penn for sticker financed with loans.

[ManoftheHour]

Hey All!

I appreciate all of your postings and read through each and every one of them. I will do my best to address them all in a concise manner...

First, thank you for all of the advice. I have worked the past 6 months full-time and it has opened my eyes to many things. I am not saying I have near the experience of most of you who are out of LS and working, but I don't consider myself a "fresh" K-JD; I graduated early for just that purpose -- to gain meaningful work experience while impacting others.

Secondly, yes I do have a 4.09 GPA and appreciate those who congratulated me on doing so, especially while playing college soccer.

Third, like I said, I have studied extremely hard for the LSAT this time around. First time through (during UG) I went through each of the PowerScore Bibles, did 7sage (I bought the cheapest package that came with all the lessons and PTs 60-65), and took probably 20+ PTs. Admittedly, I did not fully understand what "drilling" was and had no one to help lead me through the process. I'm a second generation college student and was the only person I knew attempting to go to law school (no study partner, etc.). Once I found TLS, my approach for this time around changed dramatically. I bought the LSAT Trainer and went through it, continually coming back to it to focus on my weak points. I slow-motion drilled every question of PTs 40-50 and took every PT from 58 to 71. As I said, I peaked at 169 and my last ten PTs were all between 165-169. I hope some can understand the deflated feeling I had after utilizing every resource that I felt was financially feasible, yet still not being to crack 170.

Who knows? Maybe I did well on the LSAT this past Monday. Such a weird test that it is hard to gauge.

Lastly, I truly to appreciate everyone's advice. I understand that we all want the best for each other on here and that you are all trying to help me make the best and most informed decision that I can. Thank you all for taking the time to post. If I missed one of your questions, please repost it and I'll do my best to answer!

That's still not drilling. Drilling is doing 200+ questions of the SAME type (Must be true, cannot be true, weaken, etc.) and going through every answer choice. For every answer choice per question, you should know exactly why each wrong answer choice is wrong and why the right one is right. Doing PTs without drilling is like trying to win a backstroke race without perfecting the fundamentals of the backstroke.

http://www.cambridgelsat.com/problem-se ... reasoning/

[03152016]

You really didn't prep enough material. I don't go on the LSAT prep forum as often as I used to; are people saying to use material from PT 40 and up nowadays? I usually recommend using a strategy guide (or multiple strategy guides) while you work PTs 1 through 40, then PTs from 41 and up. Maybe some timed sections from SuperPrep, ItemWise, June '07, India 2, 3, and 4. Plus some third party LG material (MLSAT Logic Games Challenge is pretty good) if needed.

Since you burned through the newer material, a good option for you would be starting with PS/MLSAT guides in conjunction with drilling all material, by question/game/passage type, from PTs 41 to 72, followed by PTs 1 through 40, SP, IW, J '07, India 2/3/4, with third party LG if needed.

Since you clearly didn't maximize your potential on the LSAT (not only was the prep insufficient, but you underperformed on test day), retaking is the best option here. Frankly, any one of the components of your situation (reverse splitter facing sticker, underperformed on test day, insufficient prep) would make retaking the best option for most people.

Retake in September, kill the LSAT, and come join us at NYU next year with the Vandy (or Columbia with the Hamilton, or Chicago with the Ruby, etc). Then we'll all have a good laugh about that time you almost went to Penn at sticker.