Any Difference Between T2, TTT and TTTT Schools? Forum

[Ded Precedent]

You are not coherent.

[TTT_allstar]

T30s at sticker are certainly not fine.

Please show evidence of this. ^^^^

Are you willing to stipulate that taking out loans to pay sticker and not landing biglaw puts you in a world of hurt, debt-wise?

Hell no! Why are all TLSers stuck with tiny little boners for big law??? How about mid law, small law (not shit law), state agency... "80-120k per year? The children will starve!"

From the top 30, almost everyone in the class can get regional mid law, if they tried. Big law is nice, but the sun doesn't rise in its pants.

[A. Nony Mouse]

T30s at sticker are certainly not fine.

Please show evidence of this. ^^^^

Are you willing to stipulate that taking out loans to pay sticker and not landing biglaw puts you in a world of hurt, debt-wise?

Hello no! Why are all TLSers stuck with tiny little boners for big law??? How about mid law, small law (not shit law), state agency... "80-120k per year? The children will starve!"

From the top 30, almost everyone in the class can get regional mid law, if they tried. Big law is nice, but the sun doesn't rise in its pants.

It's so cute that you think this. It's also so cute that you think regional midlaw pays $80-120k.

[Turtledove]

Last time I checked, University of Iowa grads and University of Washington grads were doing just fine.

You're clearly trolling...

But for any lurkers out there - saying the grads of any school are "fine" is a silly statement. There are clearly a lot of unemployed T-14 grads that are not "fine" for instance. Ex ante all you can do is attend the right school at the right price for your career objectives. Everything else is just noise.

[ScottRiqui]

Last time I checked, University of Iowa grads and University of Washington grads were doing just fine.

Just looking at University of Iowa, only about 20% of the class gets one of the traditionally "desirable" outcomes (biglaw or A3 clerkship). Granted, there are other jobs, but with ~$180k sticker debt when the payments start coming due, how many of those other jobs won't make you feel like you've sold yourself into wage slavery?

[NYSprague]

Also, TLSers loooove rankings. If someone posted a thread asking Cincinnati or Montana, everyone would scoff at them for even asking.

Anyway, that's largely what I was driving at: outside of the top 35-40, it just doesn't matter at all. Go to your local school.

Montana has a law school? Who knew?

[UnicornHunter]

Also, TLSers loooove rankings. If someone posted a thread asking Cincinnati or Montana, everyone would scoff at them for even asking.

Please show evidence of this.

I could, but I don't want to spend a whole bunch of time sorting through 6 year old dead threads. TLS has come a long way in 6 years

Anyway, it seems like the conventch wisdom on TLS is that you go to the best school you can get into. Nobody says this anymore

And BTW it's really not a bad idea to take on debt to go to a strong regional school. People act like HYS are the only schools worth going to at sticker Whether or not HYS are worth sticker has been debated here a lot recently. For what it's worth, I don't think they are.. Any of the T30 at sticker are fine. No As well as any strong regional. People get into trouble when they go to a school like Hofstra at sticker at all... They have to compete with H,Y,N,C,C etc grads- even for regional jobs. If Hoffy grads aren't top 30, they're in deep ass shit. This part, at least, is true.

[TTT_allstar]

It's so cute that you think this. It's also so cute that you think regional midlaw pays $80-120k.[/quote]

What hyperbolized, small figure do TLS snobbers think regional midlaw associates make? 50 cents per week?

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

[TTT_allstar]

You are not coherent.

sic semper tyranis

[ScottRiqui]

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

Look at legal salary distributions - you can't treat $70k as some kind of fallback safety net. And full COA loans at a T30 aren't $100k when the payments start coming due, either.

[UnicornHunter]

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

Look at legal salary distributions - you can't treat $70k as some kind of fallback safety net. And full COA loans at a T30 aren't $100k when the payments start coming due, either.

http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib

[Turtledove]

Who wants to take bets that this is a YoungMario Alt?

[fundamentallybroken]

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

If you're paying sticker at any school (especially a T30), you're coming out with a helluva lot more than 100k in debt.

[A. Nony Mouse]

What hyperbolized, small figure do TLS snobbers think regional midlaw associates make? 50 cents per week?

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

Have you seen the bimodal distribution of law salaries published by NALP? $70k is not a likely outcome. It's not impossible, but it's not likely. (edit: scooped)

And the salary thing isn't about failure. I don't make $160k (I don't even make $70k) and I don't care whether anyone else does or not. The reason people warn against what you're advocating is that people are generally unhappy paying off their law school debt on mid/small-law salaries. It's not about salary alone, it's about salary and the ability to pay off the debt you incurred.

But you should also really look at law school transparency more closely. They break down employment numbers by employer size. It can be extremely revealing.

(I went to a lower T1; I certainly don't think doing so means you're a failure. You're just not really making the best case for it here.)

[TTT_allstar]

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

If you're paying sticker at any school (especially a T30), you're coming out with a helluva lot more than 100k in debt.

How the hell do you figure? Let's take IOWA at $21000 per year. x 3 = $63000... $37000 for living expenses in law school? Are you the most decadent MFer in history?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Iowa's tuition and fees = $23,760 (for in-state, but we'll grant that). Then you have to actually pay to, you know, live - rent and food and the occasional clothes and doctor bills and so on. Then your loans are incurring interest during law school. You also have to take the bar, so you're going to need money to live on after graduation. If you don't get a biglaw SA during the summers, you may well take out more loans to cover the summers.

As for the University of Washington, the school estimates the cost of attendance at $49,734 a year for in-state residents.

[fundamentallybroken]

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

If you're paying sticker at any school (especially a T30), you're coming out with a helluva lot more than 100k in debt.

How the hell do you figure? Let's take IOWA at $21000 per year. x 3 = $63000... $37000 for living expenses in law school? Are you the most decadent MFer in history?

Are you a 0L? $21k at Iowa is tuition and mandatory fees, and is not total cost of attendance. Total COA per year last year at Iowa was $45k for resident, $65k for nonresident.

[TTT_allstar]

Once again let's look at Iowa. Do you really think any of their grads can't waltz into anytown USA and land small law over median University of Mississippi grads or the like? Even bottom 10 percent of T30 will starve only if they are literally retarded circus apes. I have to laugh when eeyore type losers give up on finding gainful legal employment. Those are the types that only went to law school in the first place because the heroine on a Lifetime movie was an "empowered" woman lawyer.

Even making 60k at small law, and taking your numbers of paying off 150k in debt... you can still make it and live quite comfy. Especially now with IBR.

No I'm not a 0L. I'm a grad...

TLSers just tend to be such snobs that 1) you get big law (after 2L SA); 2) you get art III and then big law; or 3) law school was not worth it and was an enormous mistake...

There are many routes that a person can take to make law school at sticker "worth it"

[UnicornHunter]

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

If you're paying sticker at any school (especially a T30), you're coming out with a helluva lot more than 100k in debt.

How the hell do you figure? Let's take IOWA at $21000 per year. x 3 = $63000... $37000 for living expenses in law school? Are you the most decadent MFer in history?

hmm, we could settle this using back of the napkin math orrrrr we could use actual data...http://www.law.uiowa.edu/students/finaid/loans.php

For the class of 2012, the average law school student loan debt was $95,574. Most students choose an extended payment plan of 25 years.

That's the average debt. That includes people on scholarships and with rich parents. It is very, very probable that the average person paying sticker graduated with a lot more than 100k of debt in 2012. And Iowa's about as cheap as it gets, so this is really the exception that proves the rule.

[ScottRiqui]

Once again TLSers think that if you don't get 160k, you fail. Even if you started out at 70k, paying of 100k isn't the end of the universe. It might not be done in 5 years, but it's doable. Especially if you don't whine about work/life balance and keep getting good billable hours for your firm. You'll move up quick.

If you're paying sticker at any school (especially a T30), you're coming out with a helluva lot more than 100k in debt.

How the hell do you figure? Let's take IOWA at $21000 per year. x 3 = $63000... $37000 for living expenses in law school? Are you the most decadent MFer in history?

Resident tuition/fees is about $24k/year, not $21k. And interest starts accruing the instant the loans are disbursed, so the earliest of your loan disbursements will have been accruing interest for three years by the time you start paying them back. The COL is $17k/year, which is hardly extravagant. The total debt when repayment starts is about $165k. And Iowa is cheap compared to most schools. Your other example (University of Washington) is $31k/year just for tuition & fees.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Once again let's look at Iowa. Do you really think any of their grads can't waltz into anytown USA and land small law over median University of Mississippi grads or the like? Even bottom 10 percent of T30 will starve only if they are literally retarded circus apes. I have to laugh when eeyore type losers give up on finding gainful legal employment. Those are the types that only went to law school in the first place because the heroine on a Lifetime movie was an "empowered" woman lawyer.

Dude, this is just really one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen, and I spend way too much time on this site. There is rank idiocy being spouted in threads here all over the place tonight, but this post wins them all.

[fundamentallybroken]

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/fina ... cation.pdf

Attendance costs from last year, in case you're busy looking...

[UnicornHunter]

Once again let's look at Iowa. Do you really think any of their grads can't waltz into anytown USA and land small law over median University of Mississippi grads or the like? Even bottom 10 percent of T30 will starve only if they are literally retarded circus apes.

Yes, I do. That small law shop in "anytown" USA probably has one associate, and she's the niece of one of the three attorneys. People on TLS aren't "Biglaw or bust" because they want them cash monies. They're Biglaw or bust because Biglaw is the only thing in the legal world with a predictable and consistent hiring pipeline. It's not like there's tons and tons of small and midlaw shops in the US just looking for the next great attorney to come in with his T14/T1/TT/Twhatever JD.

How did you go from "rankings don't matter" to Iowa>>>Mississippi??? I call troll.

[NYSprague]

Once again let's look at Iowa. Do you really think any of their grads can't waltz into anytown USA and land small law over median University of Mississippi grads or the like? Even bottom 10 percent of T30 will starve only if they are literally retarded circus apes. I have to laugh when eeyore type losers give up on finding gainful legal employment. Those are the types that only went to law school in the first place because the heroine on a Lifetime movie was an "empowered" woman lawyer.

Dude, this is just really one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen, and I spend way too much time on this site. There is rank idiocy being spouted in threads here all over the place tonight, but this post wins them all.

Maybe this is revenge of the clueless 0Ls week. They must have sensed a weakness in the force.

[TTT_allstar]

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/fina ... cation.pdf

Attendance costs from last year, in case you're busy looking...

Point conceded... 135k to 150k. Either way... can be paid off with small law wages. especially with IBR. right? soooo my whole point is that law school can be worth it even if no big law.

IBR= pay 70-100 bucks per month and then have out of control federal gov't forgive welfa... er student loans after 20 years.