Why such little apparent respect for Emory? Forum

cotiger · Post by **cotiger** » Wed May 07, 2014 1:27 pm

Ngoblue2014 wrote:Thanks for the advice everyone I really appreciate it. My pre law advisor is so busy I couldn't get a meeting until May 24th, this has been immensely helpful

Your prelaw advisor is likely clueless as well, just FYI.

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Wed May 07, 2014 1:29 pm

Post removed.

AntipodeanPhil · Post by **AntipodeanPhil** » Wed May 07, 2014 1:36 pm

So, all of the above seems accurate to me. Emory: (1) is too expensive, and too stingy with its scholarship money; (2) is ranked higher than it should be, based on employment outcomes; (3) only really has pull in Georgia, which isn't where most of its graduates want to practice; and (4) is a bad option for people from Georgia, since UGA with in-state tuition is much cheaper.

But I also think there's more to the trap aspect that people haven't mentioned. Emory is a trap school because it's ranked higher than it should be based on employment outcomes, but also because it's well known enough that people think its name carries weight, when actually it doesn't. In other words, people confuse 'well known' with 'prestigious.' The latter actually does seem to help people get jobs in the law, the former does not. Usually, they go together, but in Emory's case they come apart - at least within the legal community.

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Wed May 07, 2014 4:57 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:So, all of the above seems accurate to me. Emory: (1) is too expensive, and too stingy with its scholarship money; (2) is ranked higher than it should be, based on employment outcomes; (3) only really has pull in Georgia, which isn't where most of its graduates want to practice; and (4) is a bad option for people from Georgia, since UGA with in-state tuition is much cheaper.

But I also think there's more to the trap aspect that people haven't mentioned. Emory is a trap school because it's ranked higher than it should be based on employment outcomes, but also because it's well known enough that people think its name carries weight, when actually it doesn't. In other words, people confuse 'well known' with 'prestigious.' The latter actually does seem to help people get jobs in the law, the former does not. Usually, they go together, but in Emory's case they come apart - at least within the legal community.

The best evidence of trap status is ITT. There's probably a lot of people whose parents have pushed them into schools like Emory on the basis of USNWR rankings and the fact that its a private school and really expensive so the job prospects must be there or there's a "network" or some other Boomer nonsense.

HRomanus · Post by **HRomanus** » Wed May 07, 2014 5:08 pm

Disclosure: 0L.

I am going to Emory because I have a large scholarship and want to practice in the region. I want the opportunity for BigLaw, but am comfortable with (and have ties for) smaller firms in the South. I seriously compared Emory to Wake, UGA, and UNC; based on COA and personal goals, Emory is the more compelling option for me.

Ngoblue2014 · Post by **Ngoblue2014** » Wed May 07, 2014 5:57 pm

HRomanus we applied to very similar schools, i also have considered Wake, UNC and UGA. Ironically UGA called me about 20 minutes ago and offered to up my scholarship to an extent that i would be about less than two thousand dollars a year in base tuition. Loved Athens, pretty enticing. But i think you're right Emory is a stronger school.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Why are you applying to random regional schools all over the country? What was your plan going into this cycle? Do you somehow have substantial ties to all of these places?

HRomanus · Post by **HRomanus** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:17 pm

BigZuck wrote:Why are you applying to random regional schools all over the country? What was your plan going into this cycle? Do you somehow have substantial ties to all of these places?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=228806

HRomanus wrote:From previous threads: He wants to work in BigLaw outside of Michigan for 5-10 years, then return to Michigan and work in a solo/small firm with a longterm goal of entering Michigan politics. He has a strong network in Michigan. He has ties in Miami and Boston. He is comfortable with the risk of attending BU/BC/Emory understanding their chances of BigLaw employment. His education is paid for, so COA is irrelevant.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:30 pm

HRomanus wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Why are you applying to random regional schools all over the country? What was your plan going into this cycle? Do you somehow have substantial ties to all of these places?
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=228806

HRomanus wrote:From previous threads: He wants to work in BigLaw outside of Michigan for 5-10 years, then return to Michigan and work in a solo/small firm with a longterm goal of entering Michigan politics. He has a strong network in Michigan. He has ties in Miami and Boston. He is comfortable with the risk of attending BU/BC/Emory understanding their chances of BigLaw employment. His education is paid for, so COA is irrelevant.

Ugh

This plan is half-baked at best

OP, retake/reapply and do it right next year. You're all over the place here, what you're doing doesn't make any sense.

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Wed May 07, 2014 8:43 pm

Post removed.

cotiger · Post by **cotiger** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:03 pm

You need at least a 170 for UMich with your GPA, btw.

cotiger · Post by **cotiger** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:09 pm

The fact that OP passed on a full-ride to IUIC in order to pay $100k for Emory with these goals is beyond strange.

Yeah, retaking for UMich would be best, but free UIUC is clearly the next best feasible option with that GPA.

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:10 pm

MistakenGenius wrote: I don't know about Chicago's or Columbia's reputation in Michigan.

I don't think voters in Michigan are going to know or care much about the relative merits of Chicago or Columbia Law.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:14 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
HRomanus wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Why are you applying to random regional schools all over the country? What was your plan going into this cycle? Do you somehow have substantial ties to all of these places?
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=228806

HRomanus wrote:From previous threads: He wants to work in BigLaw outside of Michigan for 5-10 years, then return to Michigan and work in a solo/small firm with a longterm goal of entering Michigan politics. He has a strong network in Michigan. He has ties in Miami and Boston. He is comfortable with the risk of attending BU/BC/Emory understanding their chances of BigLaw employment. His education is paid for, so COA is irrelevant.
Ugh

This plan is half-baked at best

OP, retake/reapply and do it right next year. You're all over the place here, what you're doing doesn't make any sense.
I don't see any problems with his plan in and of itself. He doesn't want partner, so 5 years in Biglaw with no debt will allow him to build a nice little nest egg. Many small firms would jump at the chance to bring a highly educated biglaw attorney on board (provided he's litigation, not so much if he's transactional). From then, he has a nice background for politics. It's not easy, but it's a realistic and attainable goal.

That said, OP, in my mind, the plan is fine and Zuck is wrong. However, the schools you're considering won't help you achieve your goals. Yes, none of your schools give you much shot at Biglaw (about top 1/3 or higher needed), but they also do not help you in Michigan. Those schools are regional powers, very few of your fellow alumni will be in the position to help you in politics. Some of your fellow Michiganites (no idea what they're called), might not like you leaving the state for such poor schools. You have Michigan as your undergrad, it's a good school that's highly regarded in Michigan, why water yourself down with Emory or BC? Honestly, for politics, Harvard and Yale dominate, but assuming you don't have that GPA, you need to retake and go to your alma mater. This is what I'm talking about regarding planning your education. You need schools that will. help you attain your goals. These schools do not help you attain any of them.

Also, notice I only mentioned Harvard and Yale. Given your goals, I don't think NYU or Stanford are as good as Michigan. I don't know about Chicago's or Columbia's reputation in Michigan.

I'm wrong?

Did you stop to think for just one second that maybe I think his plan is half-baked at best because he wants to go to a school like Emory to A) Get big law (presumably in some place like Atlanta and from a school that doesn't have good big law placement) and B) Parlay that big law career into a career in Michigan politics?

Come on bro, pull it together

BlueLotus · Post by **BlueLotus** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:20 pm

Because BOOTSTRAPS.
http://abovethelaw.com/2011/05/possibly ... eech-ever/

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:55 pm

Post removed.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed May 07, 2014 11:17 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
MistakenGenius wrote: I don't know about Chicago's or Columbia's reputation in Michigan.
I don't think voters in Michigan are going to know or care much about the relative merits of Chicago or Columbia Law.
I didn't think so, but didn't want to give an absolute answer since I wasn't positive. I know Columbia carries more layman weight than you'd expect down South. Probably 3rd most. I wasn't sure if it was a similar situation in Michigan. So OP, sounds like if you can't get Harvard or Yale, it's all about the Big Blue.

And Zuck, my bad for misunderstanding, but I interpreted that as you meant his plan itself was half-baked, when really it's how he's going about it that's wrong.

Full disclosure: I can't for the life of me understand how an early 20 something year old would want to go into politics. I can't imagine the type of person who at like 22 years old knows they want to go to law school so they can one day end up a politician be anything but a horrible, insufferable gunner. But to each his own, YOLO

If being a politician was my goal and I wanted to get there via law school (which I am doubting is the best or most efficient way, but again YOLO) I think you need to be state flagship (in the state you grew up in and that's also the state you want to be a politician in) or Harvard or bust.

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Wed May 07, 2014 11:17 pm

Ngoblue2014 wrote:Thanks for the advice everyone I really appreciate it. My pre law advisor is so busy I couldn't get a meeting until May 24th, this has been immensely helpful

lol

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Wed May 07, 2014 11:55 pm

Post removed.

Ngoblue2014 · Post by **Ngoblue2014** » Thu May 08, 2014 12:19 am

This thread has spiraled out of control haha I want to be a politician and have grown up in the political world since I was a little kid. My dad has ran 11 times for contested office, serving as a judge, state legislator, commissioner etc.

Ngoblue2014 · Post by **Ngoblue2014** » Thu May 08, 2014 12:24 am

I understand a lot of people on this site are going to better schools and have "better plans" than me, and that's fine. Congrats to you guys for that. Doesn't change the fact that this is a site for people going to law school, not just for people in the top 10. So as crazy as
It may sounds I'm actually happy and grateful for my acceptances. Though yes in the interest of full disclosure clearly umich would be the best option, but spending 5 years here I'm ok with leaving (not that I have a choice really haha)

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Thu May 08, 2014 12:30 am

Ngoblue2014 wrote:I understand a lot of people on this site are going to better schools and have "better plans" than me, and that's fine. Congrats to you guys for that. Doesn't change the fact that this is a site for people going to law school, not just for people in the top 10. So as crazy as
It may sounds I'm actually happy and grateful for my acceptances. Though yes in the interest of full disclosure clearly umich would be the best option, but spending 5 years here I'm ok with leaving (not that I have a choice really haha)

Of course you feel happy now right after you get acceptances. Try to picture yourself where you'll be in three years at the most likely outcome from Emory: small firm or school funded fellowship in Georgia. Evaluate whether you'll be happy then.

Ngoblue2014 · Post by **Ngoblue2014** » Thu May 08, 2014 12:39 am

well i think my situation is a little unique though, in that really no matter what i wouldn't accept either of those outcomes. If i don't make big law (i know, i know, i probably won't statistically) i will just head home. Where i am from an Emory degree is very strong. Why? because the largest firms have between 100-250 attorneys, most are from MSU, Cooley, Indiana, Valpo, American (yes that American) etc. Of course there are Umich kids, but to be honest if you go to umich and end up where i am from out of law school you struggled or really really love west michigan. As I've noted before if it doesn't work out for me i will work for my dad and or open my own practice (this is much more realistic than it sounds when you consider the fact my family owns office buildings and is well established in the community, the costs would be lower than the average) Basically, I just want to go somewhere i will enjoy (really like Atlanta, DC, Boston) and would be really happy if i am fortunate enough to get a "big law" job in those areas. I am in no way a gunner though, I simply want to do my best, and subsequently hope for the best. It seems all of the options i have mentioned give me at least a chance at what my goals are outside of my home, and all would be at the very least an above average degree for the legal market in my hometown.

ManoftheHour · Post by **ManoftheHour** » Thu May 08, 2014 12:41 am

BigZuck wrote:plan is half-baked at best because he wants to go to a school like Emory to A) Get big law (presumably in some place like Atlanta and from a school that doesn't have good big law placement) and B) Parlay that big law career into a career in Michigan politics

HRomanus · Post by **HRomanus** » Thu May 08, 2014 12:41 am

Nelson wrote:Of course you feel happy now right after you get acceptances. Try to picture yourself where you'll be in three years at the most likely outcome from Emory: small firm or school funded fellowship in Georgia. Evaluate whether you'll be happy then.

LST (or ABA, I guess) fails us here. I'm not sure where those school fellowships are placed in the employment data. I'm also not sure how those school fellowship recipients fare after the 9 month point. That being said, the numbers don't support "small firm or school funded fellowship" as the most likely outcome from Emory. I also think Emory gets too much shit for its school-funded positions. For example, it makes no sense for ATL to count them as unemployed when they're receiving a (albeit barely liveable) stipend per month.