Hofstra, Touro, or St. John's Forum

[TheSpanishMain]

Hi!

I am a current Touro student. Congrats on getting into Law School! I would definitely recommend you coming to Touro if you are interested in elder law because the school is implementing a bunch of new opportunities in elder law. If you do not want to take the LSAT again (which I assume you wouldn't because your score is not likely to have a dramatic increase)

If a 150 is truly representative of someone's abilities and not just the result of a bad test day or insufficient studying that person should not go to law school. Sorry, Law School!* If a 150 is truly what you have in the tank, then you clearly struggle with logical reasoning and reading comprehension.

*Getting into law school is in itself not impressive. There are many law schools, like yours, that will basically take anyone with a pulse. Are you a Touro AdComm or just a troll?

[KingFish]

Re-take the LSAT and reapply. If not, then go to the school that gives you the most money.

you should retake the lsat....but if u don't... go to wherever gives you the most money..the touro kid is actually right....

This HAS to be the same person.

[KatyMarie]

Re-take the LSAT and reapply. If not, then go to the school that gives you the most money.

you should retake the lsat....but if u don't... go to wherever gives you the most money..the touro kid is actually right....

This HAS to be the same person.

Yep, it has to be, lovegoesfar made an account 4 minutes before posting that one and only post so...

[Humbert Humbert]

What the fuck is Touro?

[PepperJack]

Any school where the dean proctors the LSAT, stands over you while you literally breathing on you while you take the test then offers a personal tour is one where it's absolutely feasible he would also make multiple TLS accounts to solicit students.

I don't want to get sued or make assumptions about Touro's business practices. But I can say that (1) the dean of law school admissions did proctor the LSAT at Touro, (2) the dean of law school admissions is much louder and more intrusive than other proctors and (3) offers a personal tour of the law school upon completing the LSAT.

It's just as likely that Touro can't find proctors or figures the dean isn't really doing anything anyway as it is that Touro makes a concerted effort to solicit students while they're taking the LSAT. However, if there is an orchestrated, "Maybe we'll get lucky and I'll get a few at the LSAT today" is indicative of a school that really just wants butts in the seats. On the other hand, it could be they just want applications and do have high academic standards. My only point is that if the dean of admissions is marketing directly to students who are first taking the LSAT, it's possible they would want to confront the people speaking on TLS.

The bottom line is that the mantra "You got into law school!" is harmful to the legal profession, law students and the individuals who believe getting into a law school is an accomplishment. The students who buy it are also not intelligent enough to realize that education is a form of business. I understand the proposition of caveat emptor, but the tax payer is more likely than not the one footing the bill due to the ethically questionable marketing practices of institutions like Touro. Anyone who gets over the 40th percentile on the LSAT will get into a law school, and it's crazy to consider this an accomplishment. The logic nobody cares after your first job is (1) normally false and (2) is the equivalent of saying "nobody cares where you played college ball after your rookie deal expires in the NBA". You're presupposing a circumstance that's less than 1% likely (i.e. starting at a decent firm) to happen as the foundational component of your argument.

[mu13ski]

Hi!

I am a current Touro student. Congrats on getting into Law School! I would definitely recommend you coming to Touro if you are interested in elder law because the school is implementing a bunch of new opportunities in elder law. If you do not want to take the LSAT again (which I assume you wouldn't because your score is not likely to have a dramatic increase)

If a 150 is truly representative of someone's abilities and not just the result of a bad test day or insufficient studying that person should not go to law school. Sorry, Law School!* If a 150 is truly what you have in the tank, then you clearly struggle with logical reasoning and reading comprehension.

*Getting into law school is in itself not impressive. There are many law schools, like yours, that will basically take anyone with a pulse. Are you a Touro AdComm or just a troll?

But Elder Law, bro

[rickgrimes69]

I mean, I'm all for the attack the ttt routine, but we do have statistics, and he's right about retakes on average.

On average, sure - but he's implying that a retake is pointless, which we all know isn't true.

[PepperJack]

I mean, I'm all for the attack the ttt routine, but we do have statistics, and he's right about retakes on average.

On average, sure - but he's implying that a retake is pointless, which we all know isn't true.

However, the data is unreliable. Economically, if we took everyone's money anyway and started over, the odds would still be greater that the 1% would wind up back in the 1% than median would end up in the 1%. Someone getting a 150 likely is very off base on many fundamental issues so just assuming a retake can luckily get them a 170 is asinine. Most people just take the test again without fundamental changes so gargantuan improvements are unlikely. If someone has the sense to go on this site and search for study tips they're not like most re-test takers. Any tutor would state that people who contacted them 5-6 months out, studied religiously and took many practice tests improved tremendously. The "you don't improve so much" are generally the ones who say, "I take the test in two weeks and need a 20 point improvement from the last one." Unfortunately, almost all of these people are starting with lower scores. The behavior, work ethic and decision making patterns of individuals with massive score differentials tend to be night and day. It's not as simple as, "you can't improve that much."

[jumpingjack]

did any of you above offer any real insight or advice? Who cares about the half of Touro that won't practice.. i just care about myself. Also many LSAT tutors even say that scores don't drastically increase. Focus on the post that you clicked on

This type of stuff makes my blood boil.

[Beercules]

did any of you above offer any real insight or advice? Who cares about the half of Touro that won't practice.. i just care about myself. Also many LSAT tutors even say that scores don't drastically increase. Focus on the post that you clicked on

This type of stuff makes my blood boil.

I know bro I hate when elipsis only have two periods.

[tourostudent]

did any of you above offer any real insight or advice? Who cares about the half of Touro that won't practice.. i just care about myself. Also many LSAT tutors even say that scores don't drastically increase. Focus on the post that you clicked on

Then why do you purport to give out useful advice? If you can't see beyond your own experience you have no business advising others.

again ... another useless comment that serves no purpose.

[NYPoker]

I have really written of Touro as of this point. I was going through terrible medical issues for the past 2 years which have started to subside with the right dosage of medicine this year, so I partially blame that on my inconsistent studying/inability to focus during the exams. The attorney I work for has thrown me a figure of $65,000 to start with the ability to take over the office while giving her a percentage of the income. Hofstra emailed me again with a $20,000 scholarship with conditions to stay in the top 40%. My parents will supply half tuition. I live relatively close to Hofstra so I will not need to pay for housing. I have estimated it at $15,000 a year for me which I have savings of $20k to apply towards tuition. This leaves me with $10k in debt. I am not looking for a biglaw job so I am not sure if that helps in understanding why I am ok with these schools. Again I appreciate the comments.

[Nova]

This leaves me with $10k in debt.

(assumes scholarship retention)

[NYPoker]

This leaves me with $10k in debt.

(assumes scholarship retention)

Right should have thrown that in there.

[PepperJack]

Touro student how much does your fellowship pay? What is it exactly? It seems fair to say you won at Touro - "top 5 percent." It would be helpful to know what those going to the roulette table can hope to win. Fellowship can be directed research for free or big law for 3100/week.

[Clearly]

I mean, I'm all for the attack the ttt routine, but we do have statistics, and he's right about retakes on average.

On average, sure - but he's implying that a retake is pointless, which we all know isn't true.

However, the data is unreliable. Economically, if we took everyone's money anyway and started over, the odds would still be greater that the 1% would wind up back in the 1% than median would end up in the 1%. Someone getting a 150 likely is very off base on many fundamental issues so just assuming a retake can luckily get them a 170 is asinine. Most people just take the test again without fundamental changes so gargantuan improvements are unlikely. If someone has the sense to go on this site and search for study tips they're not like most re-test takers. Any tutor would state that people who contacted them 5-6 months out, studied religiously and took many practice tests improved tremendously. The "you don't improve so much" are generally the ones who say, "I take the test in two weeks and need a 20 point improvement from the last one." Unfortunately, almost all of these people are starting with lower scores. The behavior, work ethic and decision making patterns of individuals with massive score differentials tend to be night and day. It's not as simple as, "you can't improve that much."

I mean I get what your saying, but he didn't say you can't improve that much, he said it's not likely you will have a drastic increase, which again is still true.

[Clyde Frog]

What the fuck is Touro?

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[Clearly]

did any of you above offer any real insight or advice? Who cares about the half of Touro that won't practice.. i just care about myself. Also many LSAT tutors even say that scores don't drastically increase. Focus on the post that you clicked on

My guess would be that this is an adcomm or something and only mentioned the half unemployed to throw off suspicion. Clearly, those statistics might say that the chances of an improvement on a retake are low, but they are horribly flawed. Most people half ass it the first time they take the LSAT, then half ass it again expecting an improvement. You know what the definition of insanity is. I'd be willing to bet the rate of improved scores of people who actually followed the advice here and busted their ass is near 100%.

OP, seriously, retake. These are absolute toilets. I don't know where any of these schools are located. I don't mean state either, I have no idea what region these schools are in. I had to google Touro because I had no idea it existed. I thought you misspelled something. The only reason I've heard of Hofstra is their basketball team nearly beat UCONN in the NCAA tournament a few years back. They're horrible TTT's which will kill you with debt and then not allow you to find employment.

Seriously, you're disrespecting yourself by going to one of these three. Especially with your GPA. Why blow those years of hard work with such a horrible choice. If you genuinely follow the LSAT advice on here and try as hard as you should (it is your career after all), I promise you you'll improve. I got into Yale because of these awesome people.

Again, I'm not implying a retake is wrong, or that significant jumps aren't possible, especially after jumping 12 points on my SECOND retake personally. I was merely commenting on the people attacking the (only) part of the post that is rooted in fact. Also, how representative these statistics are to an individual is debatable, but calling them flawed isn't right either unless you have reason to believe the data isn't accurately reported.

[PepperJack]

did any of you above offer any real insight or advice? Who cares about the half of Touro that won't practice.. i just care about myself. Also many LSAT tutors even say that scores don't drastically increase. Focus on the post that you clicked on

My guess would be that this is an adcomm or something and only mentioned the half unemployed to throw off suspicion. Clearly, those statistics might say that the chances of an improvement on a retake are low, but they are horribly flawed. Most people half ass it the first time they take the LSAT, then half ass it again expecting an improvement. You know what the definition of insanity is. I'd be willing to bet the rate of improved scores of people who actually followed the advice here and busted their ass is near 100%.

OP, seriously, retake. These are absolute toilets. I don't know where any of these schools are located. I don't mean state either, I have no idea what region these schools are in. I had to google Touro because I had no idea it existed. I thought you misspelled something. The only reason I've heard of Hofstra is their basketball team nearly beat UCONN in the NCAA tournament a few years back. They're horrible TTT's which will kill you with debt and then not allow you to find employment.

Seriously, you're disrespecting yourself by going to one of these three. Especially with your GPA. Why blow those years of hard work with such a horrible choice. If you genuinely follow the LSAT advice on here and try as hard as you should (it is your career after all), I promise you you'll improve. I got into Yale because of these awesome people.

Again, I'm not implying a retake is wrong, or that significant jumps aren't possible, especially after jumping 12 points on my SECOND retake personally. I was merely commenting on the people attacking the (only) part of the post that is rooted in fact. Also, how representative these statistics are to an individual is debatable, but calling them flawed isn't right either unless you have reason to believe the data isn't accurately reported.

The average increase is about 3 points in that range, though. What percentage of those people make drastic study changes before retaking? Nobody knows, but if the logic is basically "You can't get better at the LSAT so just enroll in a shit school and hope to be i the top 10% when you couldn't reach the 50th percentile on a standardized test with some predictive value on law school performance" that's really like telling a 1-armed boxer to cut off their other arm too.

[Clearly]

did any of you above offer any real insight or advice? Who cares about the half of Touro that won't practice.. i just care about myself. Also many LSAT tutors even say that scores don't drastically increase. Focus on the post that you clicked on

My guess would be that this is an adcomm or something and only mentioned the half unemployed to throw off suspicion. Clearly, those statistics might say that the chances of an improvement on a retake are low, but they are horribly flawed. Most people half ass it the first time they take the LSAT, then half ass it again expecting an improvement. You know what the definition of insanity is. I'd be willing to bet the rate of improved scores of people who actually followed the advice here and busted their ass is near 100%.

OP, seriously, retake. These are absolute toilets. I don't know where any of these schools are located. I don't mean state either, I have no idea what region these schools are in. I had to google Touro because I had no idea it existed. I thought you misspelled something. The only reason I've heard of Hofstra is their basketball team nearly beat UCONN in the NCAA tournament a few years back. They're horrible TTT's which will kill you with debt and then not allow you to find employment.

Seriously, you're disrespecting yourself by going to one of these three. Especially with your GPA. Why blow those years of hard work with such a horrible choice. If you genuinely follow the LSAT advice on here and try as hard as you should (it is your career after all), I promise you you'll improve. I got into Yale because of these awesome people.

Again, I'm not implying a retake is wrong, or that significant jumps aren't possible, especially after jumping 12 points on my SECOND retake personally. I was merely commenting on the people attacking the (only) part of the post that is rooted in fact. Also, how representative these statistics are to an individual is debatable, but calling them flawed isn't right either unless you have reason to believe the data isn't accurately reported.

The average increase is about 3 points in that range, though. What percentage of those people make drastic study changes before retaking? Nobody knows, but if the logic is basically "You can't get better at the LSAT so just enroll in a shit school and hope to be i the top 10% when you couldn't reach the 50th percentile on a standardized test with some predictive value on law school performance" that's really like telling a 1-armed boxer to cut off their other arm too.

Retaking saved my financial future, I tell everyone to retake, and I'd tell this kid the same. I was just shocked at how everyone jumped on this kids statement that is actually accurate lol.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[Paul Campos]

Anyone who gets over the 40th percentile on the LSAT will get into a law school, and it's crazy to consider this an accomplishment. .

Fun facts: In the previous application cycle, Arizona Summit, Charlotte, and Florida Coastal, the three Infilaw schools, owned by the good folks at Sterling Partners, a Chicago-based private equity firm, received 1833 applications from people who had a highest LSAT score of between 140 (14th percentile) and 144 (23rd percentile). They admitted 1472 of these applicants, i.e., 80.3%.

The average educational debt at repayment of the 1200 or so 2013 graduates of these schools with such debt (about 92%) was approximately $224,000. This figure includes interest accrued and undergraduate debt. Almost all of this is in the form of federal loans, which are for the moment eligible for IBR and PAYE.

Per someone in a position to know, Florida Coastal turned about a 30% operating profit two years ago, of around $18 million.

[timbs4339]

This leaves me with $10k in debt.

(assumes scholarship retention)

Right should have thrown that in there.

You gotta get the stips down to good standing. You're in a huge pickle if you don't. What's the retention data like? Also make sure your parents can actually afford the 60K investment and aren't spending their retirement money of life savings.

[PepperJack]

Is there any way of knowing if Touro employees created a fake account pretending to be a student, and making up information? Courts have said doctoring employment numbers is trade puffery, but I kind of feel like assuming an alias, lying about personal information and trying to solicit a student to attend your school might be different? This is not just a brochure now. I suppose they would argue it's based on who a student could might well be, but it's more than merely brochure lies.