fullride at USC vs. sticker NYU Forum

[BillsFan9907]

Compare your outcomes at each level at each school:

1. You get high grades at USC/NYU

Outcome USC: Big firm job in LA making six figures with no debt so now you actually get to enjoy your salary and if you hate the job or are laid off it's not a big deal because you don't have debt that you need to service. The firm doesn't "own" you. By far the best case of all the scenarios.

Outcome NYU: Big firm job in probably whatever city you want making six figures. However, you have colossal debt such that if you ever lose your job or end up hating it and deciding to quit you are now in serious financial trouble. Even if you stay at the firm you will be forking over huge amounts of your salary into your loan payments--preventing you from really enjoying your high pay.

2. You get average grades

Outcome USC: You may be in trouble in terms of getting a job. However, through networking in the market where USC has a very strong alumni base you stand a good chance of finding something decent. You have the option of doing a small firm because you don't have debt to make it an untenable decision. You can also look at pi work just as you could in this situation from NYU--but you won't be forced to stay in pi for 10 years just to escape the debt via PLSF. Finally, you have the option of just doing something outside of law if you can't find anything because you don't have debt.

Outcome NYU: Similar to the NYU outcome with high grades except now you almost certainly have to work in NYC as opposed to having a choice. Further, your chances at a firm job are still not 100%. You are at a significant risk of not getting a firm job. Still your chances are not poor if you stick to NYC. Same debt situation as the earlier NYU outcome assuming you get the firm job. If you don't you are in serious trouble and now you MUST get a PI job to service your debt. You CANNOT work at a small firm or leave law because financially that would not be enough to service your debt. This final outcome is a disaster scenario.


3. You get bad grades.

Outcome USC: You will not get a big firm job. You will have to network like crazy for a small firm job or a local government job. If this doesn't work out you can leave law behind and do something else because you don't have debt.

Outcome NYU: You are in VERY serious trouble. Now you will not get a big firm job and your debt is too much to do small firm work. You HAVE to get a PI job to service your loans. If not you will be in an incredibly bad position that posters on here like to ignore/pretend doesn't exist. Your loans will crush you while you have no way to realistically service them. You CANNOT just leave the legal field and do something else because your near $300K in student loan debt is non dischargeable and cannot be paid off with essentially any non legal job you are capable of getting. An absolute nightmare scenario and basically the same as NYU with average grades but no firm job.

Dude - this was amazing. I have perfect perspective now.

[WhiskeynCoke]

3. You get bad grades.

Outcome USC: You will not get a big firm job. You will have to network like crazy for a small firm job or a local government job. If this doesn't work out you can leave law behind and do something else because you don't have debt.

Outcome NYU: You are in VERY serious trouble. Now you will not get a big firm job and your debt is too much to do small firm work. You HAVE to get a PI job to service your loans. If not you will be in an incredibly bad position that posters on here like to ignore/pretend doesn't exist. Your loans will crush you while you have no way to realistically service them. You CANNOT just leave the legal field and do something else because your near $300K in student loan debt is non dischargeable and cannot be paid off with essentially any non legal job you are capable of getting. An absolute nightmare scenario and basically the same as NYU with average grades but no firm job.

Dude, so much hyperbole here. NY firms go DEEP into NYU's class. 58% Big Law + 9% fed clerkships = 67%. Even assuming that EVERYONE was gunning for big law, you can be bottom 1/3 of the class and still have a shot. However, this is definitely not the case. A lot of folks at NYU gun for Gov/PI from the start, and 19% landed these jobs, many of which are MORE competitive than landing big law. ( http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/nyu/trends/2013/ )

I agree that sticker at NYU is risky, but don't act like you need to hit at least median or you're automatically FUCKED. I think if you can keep your debt below $200k (savings, lots of top ramen/PBR, live in a closet in Brooklyn, etc.) NYU at sticker is not a bad choice if you want big law, especially if you're a strong interviewer. I agree with your USC analysis though... top 1/3 or say bye bye to any chance of a big firm job.

However, correct choice for this OP is obviously retake. 4.0 gpa and you're going to pay sticker ANYWHERE (that's not HYS)? Are you retarded?

ALSO......

unless there is something equally/if not more unique at USC

Do you know what UNIQUE means? It means ONE OF A KIND. Something is either unique, or it isn't. There's no such thing as "more" or "less" unique.... Come on....

[MikeJD]

People should not assume that he will get more $$$ or be accepted to higher ranked schools next year. Apps apear to be even or a slight decline this year for most of the t-14 and probably up(judging by LSAT takers) at the top 6.

[buffalo_]

People should not assume that he will get more $$$ or be accepted to higher ranked schools next year. Apps apear to be even or a slight decline this year for most of the t-14 and probably up(judging by LSAT takers) at the top 6.

Every LSAT this year was down considerably except February. The uptick in February could mean that applications will rebound next year and come back up, but it could also be the result of a particularly brutal winter and all of the cancellations in December.

I don't think applications will be up next year. And if they are, they will not be up so high that OP would not benefit from a higher LSAT score.

To be fair, we don't know OP's score. And being admitted late to USC may imply a late application cycle. If OP can score in the 170's, and apply very early (which would help offset any potential rise in applications) then I think it is reasonable to assume that options will be better next cycle and certainly no worse than this cycle.

[MikeJD]

People should not assume that he will get more $$$ or be accepted to higher ranked schools next year. Apps apear to be even or a slight decline this year for most of the t-14 and probably up(judging by LSAT takers) at the top 6.

Every LSAT this year was down considerably except February. The uptick in February could mean that applications will rebound next year and come back up, but it could also be the result of a particularly brutal winter and all of the cancellations in December.

I don't think applications will be up next year. And if they are, they will not be up so high that OP would not benefit from a higher LSAT score.

To be fair, we don't know OP's score. And being admitted late to USC may imply a late application cycle. If OP can score in the 170's, and apply very early (which would help offset any potential rise in applications) then I think it is reasonable to assume that options will be better next cycle and certainly no worse than this cycle.

yes total LSAT taken was down but that's all schools, the top 20 and the t-14 and of course t-6 might be the same as last year. Look at spivey's post where it schows in increase in higher LSAT applying.

[buffalo_]

People should not assume that he will get more $$$ or be accepted to higher ranked schools next year. Apps apear to be even or a slight decline this year for most of the t-14 and probably up(judging by LSAT takers) at the top 6.

Every LSAT this year was down considerably except February. The uptick in February could mean that applications will rebound next year and come back up, but it could also be the result of a particularly brutal winter and all of the cancellations in December.

I don't think applications will be up next year. And if they are, they will not be up so high that OP would not benefit from a higher LSAT score.

To be fair, we don't know OP's score. And being admitted late to USC may imply a late application cycle. If OP can score in the 170's, and apply very early (which would help offset any potential rise in applications) then I think it is reasonable to assume that options will be better next cycle and certainly no worse than this cycle.

yes total LSAT taken was down but that's all schools, the top 20 and the t-14 and of course t-6 might be the same as last year. Look at spivey's post where it schows in increase in higher LSAT applying.

Good point.

I think this is the blog entry you are referring to:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/aba-fa ... s-of-4414/

It does seem that high LSAT applicants were up. This may very well hold true next cycle. But I would not put USC in that 170+ category of applications. I think that OP will still be attractive to USC next cycle.

Choosing USC for free this cycle isn't a bad choice at all. But you have a 4.0. You should have better options than USC at full ride.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Retake> USC>< Not going to law school at all.

[bk1]

The discussion regarding Fordham vs USC has been split off into a separate topic available here: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=228918