The fundamental problem with HYS who paid sticker Forum

[jbagelboy]

not worth starting shit

[thesealocust]

dear god please stop

[Elston Gunn]

Isnt it 300K+?

I guess if we're assuming biglaw we're assuming at least one biglaw summer.

SA money is rarely actually used to pay tution.

All of HYS actually force you to use your SA money to pay tuition. Or rather, they give you 15-20k fewer loans/grants for 3L if you do an SA.

Not exactly a good thing, but imposes some discipline I guess.

[kaiser]

There are a lot of tone-deaf 0Ls of late.

So many lawyers emerging from the lounge making it weird on the choosing thread. Usually only advice from 0ls and big Zuck

If by "making it weird" you mean "injecting a little common sense into", then I agree with you 100%. I remember 4 years ago when I was picking a school, and this site was just becoming popular. Practicing grads were few and far between, and I'm sure they would have offered some good advice. But I'd probably have just put my fingers in my ears anyway, as it seems like many 0L's have been doing as of late.

But you see, 4 years ago, the only grads were the stray JDU folks making the fear mongering threads, rather than offering genuine and useful advice. Today, there are many grads on this site, happy to share advice and make it clear what we wish we could have known as 0L's.

[jk148706]

There are a lot of tone-deaf 0Ls of late.

So many lawyers emerging from the lounge making it weird on the choosing thread. Usually only advice from 0ls and big Zuck

If by "making it weird" you mean "injecting a little common sense into", then I agree with you 100%. I remember 4 years ago when I was picking a school, and this site was just becoming popular. Practicing grads were few and far between, and I'm sure they would have offered some good advice. But I'd probably have just put my fingers in my ears anyway, as it seems like many 0L's have been doing as of late.

no legit that's exactly what I meant. Not weird in a bad way

[kaiser]

There are a lot of tone-deaf 0Ls of late.

So many lawyers emerging from the lounge making it weird on the choosing thread. Usually only advice from 0ls and big Zuck

If by "making it weird" you mean "injecting a little common sense into", then I agree with you 100%. I remember 4 years ago when I was picking a school, and this site was just becoming popular. Practicing grads were few and far between, and I'm sure they would have offered some good advice. But I'd probably have just put my fingers in my ears anyway, as it seems like many 0L's have been doing as of late.

no legit that's exactly what I meant. Not weird in a bad way

Ah ok. gotcha

[Pulsar]

Even just two years ago nearly everyone was still trumpeting HYS over $$$$ to anywhere. "Oh but it's [preftigious school] you can't turn that down!"

There's been a lot more rationality of late.

[Pneumonia]

Assuming you use some leftover 2L SA money for tuition, YHS is still over 300k sticker. Tuition alone at H will be over 60k by graduation for current 0L's.

[NYC-WVU]

I thought the point of going to HLS was to be able to respond to every pompous douche bag's bragging, pat-himself-on-the-back, engine-revving story about how great he is with: "Oh, I went to Harvard Law School."
Seems like it could even end up saving you money in the long run, with all the expensive shit you wouldn't have to buy to show people how successful you are; you could just carry around an HLS tote or something.

(I'm not at all knocking Harvard here either. I'm being completely serious. I only applied to NU, and my chances of getting in to HLS would have been slim, but HLS was the only other school I remotely contemplated, because I thought "Damn it would be nice to have something to say that would get assholes to shut up for the rest of my life.")

[jbagelboy]

I thought the point of going to HLS was to be able to respond to every pompous douche bag's bragging, pat-himself-on-the-back, engine-revving story about how great he is with: "Oh, I went to Harvard Law School."
Seems like it could even end up saving you money in the long run, with all the expensive shit you wouldn't have to buy to show people how successful you are; you could just carry around an HLS tote or something.

(I'm not at all knocking Harvard here either. I'm being completely serious. I only applied to NU, and my chances of getting in to HLS would have been slim, but HLS was the only other school I remotely contemplated, because I thought "Damn it would be nice to have something to say that would get assholes to shut up for the rest of my life.")

Snapshot of your preftigious diploma sent to US Treasury won't shut up those loan servicer assholes/forgive your debt tho

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

But at least you could feel like you were better than them?

[quijotesca1011]

Aren't a high percentage of people at HYS paying sticker, given that there's no merit aid?

Is this thread suggesting it's not worth it for most of those people?

[Pneumonia]

Aren't a high percentage of people at HYS paying sticker, given that there's no merit aid?

Is this thread suggesting it's not worth it for most of those people?

Yeah, but there is a difference between "paying sticker" and "paying sticker with 100% loans."

[kaiser]

Aren't a high percentage of people at HYS paying sticker, given that there's no merit aid?

Is this thread suggesting it's not worth it for most of those people?

Absolutely not worth it for many of them. That isn't to say that there aren't certain narrow reasons why HYS at sticker may be the right choice, even in the current economic and job market. But those circumstances are relatively narrow. Keep in mind that the large majority of students at top schools end up going to biglaw, which is essentially the "easiest" outcome out of T14 schools in general. So paying that much for something you could very likely get from a slightly less elite school is just objectively dumb ITE. Its assigning FAR too great a value to the marginal benefit (which us grads can tell you is not the wide disparity we perceived it to be as 0L's)

[quijotesca1011]

Assuming you use some leftover 2L SA money for tuition, YHS is still over 300k sticker. Tuition alone at H will be over 60k by graduation for current 0L's.

Proposed student budget at HLS for 2014-2015 is $81,900. Understanding that obviously that figure will increase by year, still not seeing how you get over 300K?

Tuition alone at H is not yet over 60K, it's at $54,850.

[drevo]

Assuming you use some leftover 2L SA money for tuition, YHS is still over 300k sticker. Tuition alone at H will be over 60k by graduation for current 0L's.

Proposed student budget at HLS for 2014-2015 is $81,900. Understanding that obviously that figure will increase by year, still not seeing how you get over 300K?

Tuition alone at H is not yet over 60K, it's at $54,850.

A little thing called accumulated interest is how you get the 300K estimate.

[quijotesca1011]

---

[Pneumonia]

Assuming you use some leftover 2L SA money for tuition, YHS is still over 300k sticker. Tuition alone at H will be over 60k by graduation for current 0L's.

Proposed student budget at HLS for 2014-2015 is $81,900. Understanding that obviously that figure will increase by year, still not seeing how you get over 300K?

Tuition alone at H is not yet over 60K, it's at $54,850.

my assumptions are: Tuition (+4%/yr), Cost of Living (+2.5%/yr), no SA contributions toward debt, and 2500 laptop allowance (extra, I know). Historically 4% is low for H tuition increases too. Based on LS22's spreadsheet this ends up at 315k debt at repayment. I also assumed that repayment would begin 9 months after graduation. These are on the liberal side $'s-wise, but they aren't unrealistic. You may be leaving out accrued interest while in school, or the spreadsheet might be off idk. Maybe try the Georgetown calculator.

Also, I said tuition would be to 60k by 3L year for current applicants, which it is on track to be based on historic increases.

[quijotesca1011]

…

[beepboopbeep]

Don't ever stop df

[quijotesca1011]

…

[lecsa]

Aren't a high percentage of people at HYS paying sticker, given that there's no merit aid?

Is this thread suggesting it's not worth it for most of those people?

Yeah, but there is a difference between "paying sticker" and "paying sticker with 100% loans."

What people fail to realize is the large number of rich kids in law school.

Half my friends had their parents pay all their tuition and costs after whatever scholarships they got. These rich kids had no idea what law school forums are and they don't waste time on these. So of course the poor people (people taking out loans) will be over-represented on this forum. Expect that close to half of your classmates will be rich.

[NYSprague]

Aren't a high percentage of people at HYS paying sticker, given that there's no merit aid?

Is this thread suggesting it's not worth it for most of those people?

Yeah, but there is a difference between "paying sticker" and "paying sticker with 100% loans."

What people fail to realize is the large number of rich kids in law school.

Half my friends had their parents pay all their tuition and costs after whatever scholarships they got. These rich kids had no idea what law school forums are and they don't waste time on these. So of course the poor people (people taking out loans) will be over-represented on this forum. Expect that close to half of your classmates will be rich.

I had no law school debt because my dad left me money for education, I spent almost none of it on undergrad, and I lived at home. But, without that money, I would never have gone to law school. Not a single person in my family would have supported me taking on a hundred thousand dollars in non-dischargeable debt for a degree that might lead nowhere.

I am still shocked that people are willing to take on all that debt and that risk just to be a lawyer. When I was spending time on TLS, I concluded that for many people, it really comes down to the lure of a six figure salary. I know people make all these spreadsheets and calculations, but those calculations are all dollar driven, no one quantifies the stress of debt or how fucking hard law can be sometimes or what happens if you hate your job, get stealthed, or, even at a seemingly solid biglaw firm like Dewey, have a criminal conspiracy running the books at the firm. Not to mention catastrophic economic events which happen from time to time.

There are so many other jobs, I guess I will never get the desire to pile on huge amounts of debt and invest 3 years of your life, for law. Do something else that won't cost you three hundreds thousand dollars. That is just so much money. It is bordering on criminal that law schools get away with charging so much. Medical schools at least can claim they need expensive stuff to teach.

So if I didn't have a way to go to law school, I would have found another job and career path. Just because the government will fund an extravagant education, that doesn't mean you need to go.

/end rant

[aboutmydaylight]

Aren't a high percentage of people at HYS paying sticker, given that there's no merit aid?

Is this thread suggesting it's not worth it for most of those people?

Nope. Look at the ABA required disclosures. YS is actually more generous than a lot of the T14s. 57% receive grants at Yale for example, and 53% at Stanford. That's a higher percentage than CCNPV + NCG. What's more, their median grant amounts are larger than every single T14 except Virginia. The thing is, outside HYS, grants are very much concentrated near the top so there's a good amount of people with solid discounts. However, the bottom half of the class is almost always paying sticker.

[Pneumonia]

again though, if they're paying sticker its for the most part because they can afford to do so without taking out loans for the whole thing.