What's best for me? HLS vs. Chicago Forum

[TheSpanishMain]

I'm more comfortable with debt here because I do not see it as a massive risk but more as a life inconvenience. In fact, over 100k in debt from Duke actually feels a bit riskier to me. Correct me if I'm off but here is my thinking. At Harvard pretty much the entire class can get Big Law if they want. For the few that can't get Big Law it is very likely they can get some type of legal employment and even if that is low paying it will be supported by LIPP. I see no real risk of ending up in a position where you are starving/contemplating suicide or escaping to South America. At Duke a noticeable portion of the bottom of the class will strike out and some might not even find a job at all. I could be in debt until death.

With the debt I am looking at for the worst case scenario it appears to be about 3k a month for 10 years. That's clearly not good but I just don't find that as crushing as you state. In Big Law you will still be living off a quite good salary and it's not so much that lower paying jobs after will be forcing me into poverty. It'll be a pain in the ass and I won't be able to buy a house or save heavily during those years but I wonder if this is something I should be willing to take for that extra chance at the truly top level jobs.

Whether those truly top level jobs are worth 10 years of 3k a month payments for you to decide. For me, it's a resounding "fuck no." If I were you, I'd sit out a cycle and apply more broadly. If I were a Harvard admit, I'd be looking for big money from elsewhere in the T14.

This may sound condescending, and I don't mean it to since if you got into Harvard you clearly have stellar credentials, but are you a k-jd? Have you worked post college and lived on your own? I just think you're not quite grasping how much of an albatross 3k a month is, especially when you add in rent (probably in a high cost of living area), taxes, and basic monthly expenses. It's a little more than an "inconvenience." That "quite good salary" is going get eaten up really quickly, and you're going to be slaving away and still living really frugally. Or you could go elsewhere in the T14, still have a really good shot at Big Law if you want it, and then actually get to keep and enjoy your salary.

[bjsesq]

Where on the autism spectrum are you? This will go a long way towards determining if U of C is a good fit.

[drawstring]

Honestly man it feels like you want everyone to tell you Harvard.

[3L2014]

3k a month for 10 years is only an "inconvenience"? In NY, you are looking at a monthly take-home pay (assuming 160k starting salary) of $8500 (without COL factored in). $3,000 doesnt seem like a lot to you?

[kaiser]

Why are you so comfortable with debt? Is your family wealthy and willing to make the payments for you? That level of debt is just crushing. If a quarter million dollars in debt doesn't freak you out, you're either really naive or a far braver person than I.

I'm pretty debt averse and would always (if I had this option) pick a T14 full ride over HYS, so I admit I'm biased that way. I think a far better bet would've been a T14 full ride, but if that's not on the table I guess I vote Chicago or Duke...probably Duke.

I'm more comfortable with debt here because I do not see it as a massive risk but more as a life inconvenience. In fact, over 100k in debt from Duke actually feels a bit riskier to me. Correct me if I'm off but here is my thinking. At Harvard pretty much the entire class can get Big Law if they want. For the few that can't get Big Law it is very likely they can get some type of legal employment and even if that is low paying it will be supported by LIPP. I see no real risk of ending up in a position where you are starving/contemplating suicide or escaping to South America. At Duke a noticeable portion of the bottom of the class will strike out and some might not even find a job at all. I could be in debt until death.

With the debt I am looking at for the worst case scenario it appears to be about 3k a month for 10 years. That's clearly not good but I just don't find that as crushing as you state. In Big Law you will still be living off a quite good salary and it's not so much that lower paying jobs after will be forcing me into poverty. It'll be a pain in the ass and I won't be able to buy a house or save heavily during those years but I wonder if this is something I should be willing to take for that extra chance at the truly top level jobs.

I want you to make a copy of this post, and come back to it in about 5 years. Tell me then what you wish you could convey to your past-self. I'm telling you now man, don't do it. Literally every word you said smacks of the impractical naivety we all had when we were first applying.

Its all about cost/benefit. Yes, Harvard provides a bigger safety net than Duke, but it simply isn't worth the cost difference here. And that is especially true for someone like you who doesn't really even know what he wants to do yet.

[kaiser]

OP, this is what you said in another thread:

"Everyone has a different standard of life they are ok with but based on a standard big law salary is it possible to pay off 200k in 4 years? 300k in 5 years or 6 years? I crunched the numbers a little and even with a NYC COL this seems quite possible"

I"m telling you that you are flat out wrong, and literally every grad would agree with me. To any grad who doesn't, please do chime in. OP, you are completely misconceiving what it means to be in that kind of debt, downplaying it far too extremely. The reason you say you are "ok" with it, or only view it as a "life inconvenience" is because you clearly don't understand yet what that burden will mean to you in practice once its actually tangible.

[TheSpanishMain]

I remember when I was 23 and first moved to DC, I got a GS-7 job. I felt like I was loaded, making like 38 grand a year and living with a creepy weirdo from North Dakota as a roommate. Your concept of what a lot of money is, and what a decent standard of living is, changes a lot over time. If you haven't worked a real job/supported yourself before, you are going to be amazed at how little of your paycheck actually ends up being discretionary income.

[jbagelboy]

Why are you so comfortable with debt? Is your family wealthy and willing to make the payments for you? That level of debt is just crushing. If a quarter million dollars in debt doesn't freak you out, you're either really naive or a far braver person than I.

I'm pretty debt averse and would always (if I had this option) pick a T14 full ride over HYS, so I admit I'm biased that way. I think a far better bet would've been a T14 full ride, but if that's not on the table I guess I vote Chicago or Duke...probably Duke.

I'm more comfortable with debt here because I do not see it as a massive risk but more as a life inconvenience. In fact, over 100k in debt from Duke actually feels a bit riskier to me. Correct me if I'm off but here is my thinking. At Harvard pretty much the entire class can get Big Law if they want. For the few that can't get Big Law it is very likely they can get some type of legal employment and even if that is low paying it will be supported by LIPP. I see no real risk of ending up in a position where you are starving/contemplating suicide or escaping to South America. At Duke a noticeable portion of the bottom of the class will strike out and some might not even find a job at all. I could be in debt until death.

With the debt I am looking at for the worst case scenario it appears to be about 3k a month for 10 years. That's clearly not good but I just don't find that as crushing as you state. In Big Law you will still be living off a quite good salary and it's not so much that lower paying jobs after will be forcing me into poverty. It'll be a pain in the ass and I won't be able to buy a house or save heavily during those years but I wonder if this is something I should be willing to take for that extra chance at the truly top level jobs.

By this logic, you'd take Chicago since it gives you the same shot at large firm work as Harvard for $80k less. Feels like you're fishing here.

[jlamb555]

Got more $ at Chicago and not Duke so Duke is out. Final thoughts?

[Kimikho]

Outside of it being the best coast, why do you want to be on the west coast without ties?

[jbagelboy]

Got more $ at Chicago and not Duke so Duke is out. Final thoughts?

Just even more Chicago IMO.