Less Debt (USD) vs. Better School (UCI) Forum

[Tiago Splitter]

Maybe this will do the trick: all the good stuff you said about UCI will still be available to you next year. They'll still be happy to accept you and charge an absurdly high price for tuition. But if you re-take a score higher, you can get into much better schools, attend these schools for much cheaper, or potentially even attend much better schools for much cheaper. You have nothing to lose by re-taking and everything to gain.

[rpupkin]

Also, my aunt works at UCI and is very "in the know" about the law school. She went to Stanford undergrad and Boalt Law. Sold her soul to top BigLaw firms for a while before burning out and now is on the board of various non-profits.

Do you know how much annual in-state tuition and fees were at Boalt Hall in 1987? $1,500. Basically every California resident got a full ride to a top-10 law school. Yeah, when you don't have to pay for law school, you can afford to "burn out" from big law (assuming you even get big law) and then go work at some non-profit. I'm sure she means well, but your Aunt's own experiences are a particularly poor match for someone considering taking out nearly $200K in loans to attend a regional law school.

[bkegslounge]

OP- let's cut the bullshit. You seem like not an idiot. You're aware of the costs/probabilities and you know what TLS is going to say.

So, what's going on? What are we doing here? What is actually going on in your head/with your thought process? And why are you consulting TLS?

Honestly... I feel trapped. Everyone advises to re-take. Sure, sounds simple enough. But I've taken the LSAT twice and gone through all the practice tests. So I realistically dont think I'll increase significant enough to justify taking a year off to re-take and apply next cycle. If it were that easy, everyone would do it and go to T14 schools. That would also entail quitting my job, moving home and studying. I don't think I have the mental stamina to stare at multiple choice questions for months on end again. A 170 just won't happen for me. "Don't go to law school." Well shit... don't do what I really want to do in life? Thanks... Ok, what's my alternative? Use my B.A. in political science to do....what? Apply to jobs aimlessly then what? I want a JD. I don't see another alternative. I want to go to law school. I find value beyond money in the degree. I also don't believe living with debt is the worst thing in the world. So maybe I should just get off TLS because it's all about stats and debt.

This kinda just turned into a clusterfuck about my aunt. My apologies.

retake

[worldtraveler]

OP- let's cut the bullshit. You seem like not an idiot. You're aware of the costs/probabilities and you know what TLS is going to say.

So, what's going on? What are we doing here? What is actually going on in your head/with your thought process? And why are you consulting TLS?

Honestly... I feel trapped. Everyone advises to re-take. Sure, sounds simple enough. But I've taken the LSAT twice and gone through all the practice tests. So I realistically dont think I'll increase significant enough to justify taking a year off to re-take and apply next cycle. If it were that easy, everyone would do it and go to T14 schools. That would also entail quitting my job, moving home and studying. I don't think I have the mental stamina to stare at multiple choice questions for months on end again. A 170 just won't happen for me. "Don't go to law school." Well shit... don't do what I really want to do in life? Thanks... Ok, what's my alternative? Use my B.A. in political science to do....what? Apply to jobs aimlessly then what? I want a JD. I don't see another alternative. I want to go to law school. I find value beyond money in the degree. I also don't believe living with debt is the worst thing in the world. So maybe I should just get off TLS because it's all about stats and debt.

This kinda just turned into a clusterfuck about my aunt. My apologies.

Good luck! Follow your dreams!

Have you ever not been able to pay your bills for years on end? It's easy to say you don't care about debt now when you don't have any. Going to law school and paying 180k has the ability to destroy your future. If you really want a JD, put in the work and get yourself more scholarship money.

[banjo]

OP- let's cut the bullshit. You seem like not an idiot. You're aware of the costs/probabilities and you know what TLS is going to say.

So, what's going on? What are we doing here? What is actually going on in your head/with your thought process? And why are you consulting TLS?

Honestly... I feel trapped...I want a JD. I don't see another alternative.

Law school is never the only option. Just to give you one alternative, I worked as a technical writer in college. It paid well and I really enjoyed it. It might not be easy to break into the field without any technical knowledge, but don't ever feel that going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt is your only option. Be creative and expansive in your search.

[BigZuck]

OP- let's cut the bullshit. You seem like not an idiot. You're aware of the costs/probabilities and you know what TLS is going to say.

So, what's going on? What are we doing here? What is actually going on in your head/with your thought process? And why are you consulting TLS?

Honestly... I feel trapped. Everyone advises to re-take. Sure, sounds simple enough. But I've taken the LSAT twice and gone through all the practice tests. So I realistically dont think I'll increase significant enough to justify taking a year off to re-take and apply next cycle. If it were that easy, everyone would do it and go to T14 schools. That would also entail quitting my job, moving home and studying. I don't think I have the mental stamina to stare at multiple choice questions for months on end again. A 170 just won't happen for me. "Don't go to law school." Well shit... don't do what I really want to do in life? Thanks... Ok, what's my alternative? Use my B.A. in political science to do....what? Apply to jobs aimlessly then what? I want a JD. I don't see another alternative. I want to go to law school. I find value beyond money in the degree. I also don't believe living with debt is the worst thing in the world. So maybe I should just get off TLS because it's all about stats and debt.

This kinda just turned into a clusterfuck about my aunt. My apologies.

Good luck! Follow your dreams!

So you're, what? 22/23? Why do you think what you want/think/care about really matters? You know how you think your 17 year old self was a retard? I promise you'll think the same thing of your 23 year old self when you're 30.

All of your complaints are #firstworldproblems. It's not your future self's problem that you chose a worthless major. It's not your future self's problem that you're too much of a big man to get a normal job. It's not your future self's problem that you didn't study efficiently enough the first time around. Don't punish your future self by giving in to the bizarre instant gratification of saddling yourself to a life- ruinously huge amount of debt to go to a middling at best law school.

Follow your mother fucking dreams bro. Re-take the LSAT.

[timbs4339]

This is really the ultimate question, and nobody on this forum can answer it for you. That's why law school is such an insidious racket, it provides a path, even if it's a bad path, for a group of people who are used to having a defined path in life (i.e. people who have been students for most of their lives). All we can tell you is that 180K is a shitload of debt which you're not paying off in a reasonable time unless you get biglaw or PSLF. It's not numbers on a piece of paper, it means you'll be living like a student well into your late 20's or you'll have to resign yourself to never actually paying it back- either way, not a good situation. Take it from me, I effectively give 70% of my income to the government each month with a total debt figure much less than 180K. I'll always wonder what would have happened had I spent a few years just sending out resumes to places, waiting for a bite, and taking it from there.

Why not tap your aunt's connections and see if they will get you a policy job working at a nonprofit in an area you're interested in?

The other thing you need to realize, although you won't be able to appreciate this now, is that you're just putting off this "oh what am I to do" feeling for three more years. Go to the Legal Employment forum and check out the Vale of Tears thread. Those people are in the same situation you are now except they're starting down the barrel of 180K in debt.

[Tiago Splitter]

I haven't decided quite yet what field I want to pursue but I'm fairly certain it'll be in the private sector probably with a medium to large firm I hope.

"Don't go to law school." Well shit... don't do what I really want to do in life? Thanks..

This doesn't sound like it's the one thing you really want to do in life. As timbs said, law school is just a safe cocoon that insulates you from the real world for a few more years. The sad thing is that you know this, and are doing everything you can to avoid facing reality. As someone who was dead set on going to USD before re-taking a few years ago I can assure you it's worth it to take the time and do it right.

[thebobs1987]

OP- let's cut the bullshit. You seem like not an idiot. You're aware of the costs/probabilities and you know what TLS is going to say.

So, what's going on? What are we doing here? What is actually going on in your head/with your thought process? And why are you consulting TLS?

Honestly... I feel trapped...I want a JD. I don't see another alternative.

Law school is never the only option. Just to give you one alternative, I worked as a technical writer in college. It paid well and I really enjoyed it. It might not be easy to break into the field without any technical knowledge, but don't ever feel that going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt is your only option. Be creative and expansive in your search.

Yeah, Just to echo it. I was in a similar if not worse boat then you. I was 22 with a poli sci degree and I screwed up and didn't study and graduated with a mediocre GPA. I could have gone to a T4 at sticker, instead I actually used the poli sci degree as much as I could and did political stuff for 5 years. I had a blast made some money, then retook the LSAT and in my late 20s got into T1 schools free and T20 schools with $$$. If you have no debt now, you aren't trapped. You're free to try different things. If you go to one of these schools at these prices, then you'll feel trapped.

[Jchance]

[
Honestly... I feel trapped. Everyone advises to re-take. Sure, sounds simple enough. But I've taken the LSAT twice and gone through all the practice tests. So I realistically dont think I'll increase significant enough to justify taking a year off to re-take and apply next cycle. If it were that easy, everyone would do it and go to T14 schools. That would also entail quitting my job, moving home and studying. I don't think I have the mental stamina to stare at multiple choice questions for months on end again. A 170 just won't happen for me. "Don't go to law school." Well shit... don't do what I really want to do in life? Thanks... Ok, what's my alternative? Use my B.A. in political science to do....what? Apply to jobs aimlessly then what? I want a JD. I don't see another alternative. I want to go to law school. I find value beyond money in the degree. I also don't believe living with debt is the worst thing in the world. So maybe I should just get off TLS because it's all about stats and debt.

This kinda just turned into a clusterfuck about my aunt. My apologies.

Good luck! Follow your dreams!

Have you visited the Vale (thread)? I suggest you read through it before deciding to attend law school. Because chances are, more likely than not, you'll end up in the Vale. Just my 2 cents.

Edit:

The other thing you need to realize, although you won't be able to appreciate this now, is that you're just putting off this "oh what am I to do" feeling for three more years. Go to the Legal Employment forum and check out the Vale of Tears thread. Those people are in the same situation you are now except they're starting down the barrel of 180K in debt.

Oh hi, saw this after post. Great minds think alike. +1

[bkegslounge]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna go find my undergrad diploma and use it to roll something nice while I contemplate life.

Checking out.

--ImageRemoved--

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna go find my undergrad diploma and use it to roll something nice while I contemplate life.

I wish I had the balls to do that with my worthless UG degree.

[prezidentv8]

You know how you think your 17 year old self was a retard? I promise you'll think the same thing of your 23 year old self when you're 30.

If you have no debt now, you aren't trapped.

It's easy to say you don't care about debt now when you don't have any. Going to law school and paying 180k has the ability to destroy your future..

Good advice bros.

OP, you seem all right. Take a deep breath. Go have a couple beers. Clear the head a bit. I'm confident you'll make a good decision on this one because:

You seem like not an idiot.

PS:
If you are having this thought:

I don't think I have the mental stamina to stare at multiple choice questions for months on end again.

you should probably know that lawyering can be....how shall I say....repetitive? Mind-numbing?

PPS:

^ You win

Thanks bro!

[TheSpanishMain]

You know how you think your 17 year old self was a retard? I promise you'll think the same thing of your 23 year old self when you're 30.

This can't be emphasized enough and should be branded onto the flesh of everyone who goes, "I can't wait to retake, I'm already six months out of college! I'm falling behind!"

[star fox]

Boomers are the hidden factor that helped exasperate the law school scam. Their advice sucks; they have no idea how much debt it takes, how bad job prospects are, and Have all these anecdotes of bill down the street who went to Cooley and is making bank. Their experiences just don't apply to us. They may mean well but what they can see can be dangerous to millennials who defer to their advice because of their life experience.

[BankruptMe]

OP- let's cut the bullshit. You seem like not an idiot. You're aware of the costs/probabilities and you know what TLS is going to say.

So, what's going on? What are we doing here? What is actually going on in your head/with your thought process? And why are you consulting TLS?

One of the most profound statements I have read in awhile

I do not understand why people ask for advice here when they know what the answer is

[Jchance]

One of the most profound statements I have read in awhile

I do not understand why people ask for advice here when they know what the answer is

They know what TLS is going to say. They know what they want to do, which contradicts TLS's advice. They are still here for TLS to convince them some more.