Stanford (sticker) vs Duke ($$$) Forum

[Mack.Hambleton]

definitely Duke

[redsox]

I agree with this. There seems to be this weird TLS belief that depleting savings is nbd. That's money you could invest, purchase a car, downpayment on a home, etc. I just can't see SLS being worth $200k more in this situation. Because it is $200k difference not $95k.

As mentioned in above edit - most of the money is 401k, only (financially) reasonable to take it out with the low income/penalty exemption presented by three years in school. So it can't be used for houses or cars or vacations or really anything for the next 40 years.

[arklaw13]

I'd personally take Duke, but I don't think you can choose wrong either way.

[Nelson]

Paying with savings is totally different from paying with debt. I think Stanford is completely justifiable here.

[bertrussell]

As mentioned in above edit - most of the money is 401k, only (financially) reasonable to take it out with the low income/penalty exemption presented by three years in school. So it can't be used for houses or cars or vacations or really anything for the next 40 years.

In a similar position to you in regards to 401k savings and chose Stanford -- deferring a year though. Can someone explain why when it's Yale instead of Stanford in similar situations (assuming similar ambitions to OP) people act like Yale's obviously tcr?

[banjo]

I would go with Stanford, but I am the sort of person who stresses a lot about striking out and another downturn. I also stress about money, but less loans mitigates that a bit.

[aboutmydaylight]

As mentioned in above edit - most of the money is 401k, only (financially) reasonable to take it out with the low income/penalty exemption presented by three years in school. So it can't be used for houses or cars or vacations or really anything for the next 40 years.

In a similar position to you in regards to 401k savings and chose Stanford -- deferring a year though. Can someone explain why when it's Yale instead of Stanford in similar situations (assuming similar ambitions to OP) people act like Yale's obviously tcr?

I don't think its as obvious as you make it out to be, but people seem to value Yale much more than they should relative to HS. It seems to get a free pass even though the numbers people like to use here (BigLaw + Fed Clerk) are historically significantly worse than HS. I'm sure there's things Y is clearly superior in (Academia, Supreme Court Clerks, etc.) but I agree this site over values Y.

[Hitchensian]

You are in an enviable dilemma. You can't make a bad choice in this scenario.

[staysha]

Duke and it's not even close.

[3L2014]

In a vacuum, both of these choices are spectacular, so congrats, you are in a great position. That being said, paying an extra $200k to go to Stanford over Duke for Northeast biglaw? That is a LOT of money. Use a loan calculator. Look at after-tax pay and COL in Manhattan. Graduate from one of the top law schools in the country AND debt free...tough to pass up.

[rayiner]

Paying with savings is totally different from paying with debt. I think Stanford is completely justifiable here.

No it isn't. Money sitting in a 401k should accrue ~7-8% canceling out the interest on the debt, and with Pay-E, the "oh shit I can't make my loan payments" angle isn't there. Money is totally fungible. $100k in your 401k is that much less you have to budget out of your income to put into retirement savings.

This isn't about whether SLS is worth $200k more than Duke. Its about convincing math retarded pre-laws that something that costs $200k costs $200k regardless of how you pay for it.

[TheodoreKGB]

.

[rickgrimes69]

I don't think its as obvious as you make it out to be, but people seem to value Yale much more than they should relative to HS. It seems to get a free pass even though the numbers people like to use here (BigLaw + Fed Clerk) are historically significantly worse than HS. I'm sure there's things Y is clearly superior in (Academia, Supreme Court Clerks, etc.) but I agree this site over values Y.

Let's let that one sink in for a moment

OP, for your goals Duke is TCR here and it's not close. But it sounds like you want Stanford, so go to Stanford.

[0913djp]

Visit both.

I think if you put it in all you got at Duke, the worst outcome is still NYC BigLaw. The worry here is that if you do want to return to Boston, you may have to do some extra legwork but shoot for Ropes Gray or other Boston firms.

I pick Duke but only because the worst case scenario from both schools is the same: NYC BigLaw.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Stanford.

You've made the sacrifice for undergrad. You have the money to pay for a big chunk of the cost. You really wanna go there.

Why spend three years in Durham thinking you could be in Palo Alto?
Why spend the rest of your life wondering what Stanford would've been like?

Just do it.

why spend 200k to work the same NYC biglaw job as Duke grads lol.

[redsox]

Paying with savings is totally different from paying with debt. I think Stanford is completely justifiable here.

No it isn't. Money sitting in a 401k should accrue ~7-8% canceling out the interest on the debt, and with Pay-E, the "oh shit I can't make my loan payments" angle isn't there. Money is totally fungible. $100k in your 401k is that much less you have to budget out of your income to put into retirement savings.

This isn't about whether SLS is worth $200k more than Duke. Its about convincing math retarded pre-laws that something that costs $200k costs $200k regardless of how you pay for it.

I've seen you post a lot over the last five years, rayiner, and I respect you a lot. But there is a difference between burning through savings and taking on debt. It's certainly reasonable to argue what that difference is. And the way the savings are structured matter too. I mean, there's a cap on how much money I can get into tax-advantaged retirement accounts over the course of my life. So it's possible that those dollars are even more valuable than money in my savings account. At my age? I doubt it. But a dollar in cash and a dollar in 401k and a dollar of debt aren't all worth the same thing. If I'm a "math retarded pre-law" now, after a master's in econ and a few years in finance, I'm going to be just as "math retarded" as a lawyer...oh well.

[Nelson]

Paying with savings is totally different from paying with debt. I think Stanford is completely justifiable here.

No it isn't. Money sitting in a 401k should accrue ~7-8% canceling out the interest on the debt, and with Pay-E, the "oh shit I can't make my loan payments" angle isn't there. Money is totally fungible. $100k in your 401k is that much less you have to budget out of your income to put into retirement savings.

This isn't about whether SLS is worth $200k more than Duke. Its about convincing math retarded pre-laws that something that costs $200k costs $200k regardless of how you pay for it.

I've seen you post a lot over the last five years, rayiner, and I respect you a lot. But there is a difference between burning through savings and taking on debt. It's certainly reasonable to argue what that difference is. And the way the savings are structured matter too. I mean, there's a cap on how much money I can get into tax-advantaged retirement accounts over the course of my life. So it's possible that those dollars are even more valuable than money in my savings account. At my age? I doubt it. But a dollar in cash and a dollar in 401k and a dollar of debt aren't all worth the same thing. If I'm a "math retarded pre-law" now, after a master's in econ and a few years in finance, I'm going to be just as "math retarded" as a lawyer...oh well.

No way man. You're math retarded for sure. PLUS loans are the same as cash in the bank because of PAYE.

[TheodoreKGB]

.

[Nelson]

Stanford.

You've made the sacrifice for undergrad. You have the money to pay for a big chunk of the cost. You really wanna go there.

Why spend three years in Durham thinking you could be in Palo Alto?
Why spend the rest of your life wondering what Stanford would've been like?

Just do it.

why spend 200k to work the same NYC biglaw job as Duke grads lol.

Because he'll have loads of options only top 10% Duke grads will have and he won't have to worry about being below median at Duke and being screwed.

[rayiner]

Paying with savings is totally different from paying with debt. I think Stanford is completely justifiable here.

No it isn't. Money sitting in a 401k should accrue ~7-8% canceling out the interest on the debt, and with Pay-E, the "oh shit I can't make my loan payments" angle isn't there. Money is totally fungible. $100k in your 401k is that much less you have to budget out of your income to put into retirement savings.

This isn't about whether SLS is worth $200k more than Duke. Its about convincing math retarded pre-laws that something that costs $200k costs $200k regardless of how you pay for it.

I've seen you post a lot over the last five years, rayiner, and I respect you a lot. But there is a difference between burning through savings and taking on debt. It's certainly reasonable to argue what that difference is. And the way the savings are structured matter too. I mean, there's a cap on how much money I can get into tax-advantaged retirement accounts over the course of my life. So it's possible that those dollars are even more valuable than money in my savings account. At my age? I doubt it. But a dollar in cash and a dollar in 401k and a dollar of debt aren't all worth the same thing. If I'm a "math retarded pre-law" now, after a master's in econ and a few years in finance, I'm going to be just as "math retarded" as a lawyer...oh well.

Fine, it's not "totally fungible." But it's really much more fungible than anyone is implying ITT. I'm saying that when something costs $200k, it doesn't actually cost $100k because you pay part of it with cash instead of debt. Whether SLS is worth $200k more than Duke is a question you can answer independently of how you come up with part of that $200k.

Use your econ masters here: what's his balance sheet look like at graduation between the two options? What's the bottom line difference between the two numbers?

[muskies970]

you clearly want to go to stanford, it's your life to live, and it's not a bad or wrong decision.

enjoy palo alto bro

[Tiago Splitter]

I think with your background and Duke's placement power there's very little chance you'll strike out. I'd have a tough time saying Stanford is worth 200k more for almost any goals, but it's definitely not for yours.

[cotiger]

If this is even a question for you, then perceived prestige is clearly the overriding concern an you should pick Stanford.

Is there some sort of 12-step program for prestige whores?

Lol, someone should really make one.

It really sounds like you just have residual FOMO from your UG decision rather than any objective reason why Stanford would be worth $200,000 extra for you.

[jbagelboy]

If this is even a question for you, then perceived prestige is clearly the overriding concern an you should pick Stanford.

Is there some sort of 12-step program for prestige whores?

Lol, someone should really make one.

It really sounds like you just have residual FOMO from your UG decision rather than any objective reason why Stanford would be worth $200,000 extra for you.

I mean, to 99% of people Duke is already very prestigious. You aren't exactly hanging your head eyes down on the pavement for the rest of your life with a Duke JD. It's just the "tls 1%" that thinks themselves so far above.

[redsox]

I mean, to 99% of people Duke is already very prestigious. You aren't exactly hanging your head eyes down on the pavement for the rest of your life with a Duke JD. It's just the "tls 1%" that thinks themselves so far above.

C'mon, man. Edit that quote out.