UPDATED: UVA sticker, GULC ($), William & Mary ($)? Forum

[hopefulapplicant2]

Hey everyone, I'm deciding between the following: UVA vs. GULC vs. W&M. I will be financing my legal education solely through loans. I'm from the southeast and ultimately want to practice in DC. I'm pretty much against doing biglaw; would definitely prefer something in government or a smaller firm.

LSAT: 174
GPA: 3.4

Total COA:
UVA: sticker (~250k+ interest)
GULC: sticker (~250k+ interest)
W&M: ~100k

It's possible that I might get a scholarship from GULC in the near future, but I'm not overly optimistic about it at this point.
ETA: UVA made it pretty clear that I won't be receiving a scholarship.

My biggest question: is the employment/prestige advantage coming out of UVA or GULC enough to cancel out the significantly larger debt I'd be incurring? I don't want to have regrets in the future and feel like I "settled" and shorted myself of better opportunities. I am pretty debt-adverse, but I'm more comfortable with W&M's offer and just can't seem to swallow the sticker price of either UVA or GULC. I really, really don't want to do biglaw. Is that (along with a program like LRAP) the only way to realistically pay off that mountain of debt?

Thanks for any input.

I would make a spreadsheet with factors that matter to you, including COA, Lists of most common firms where graduates are placed, bar passage rate in the state you plan on practicing, type of law that each school provides(for instance I believe W&M does not have IP). Compare the data from LST, ATL and US News and World Report. I have not analyzed the data behind the jump in ranking for W & M, but this might matter. I think ATL has some information about law firms for each school. If you are close I would set up meetings with each school and let them sell themselves to you, I would have a common set of questions for each school and then compare their answers after gathering information. A self designed consistent process should help guide you to a decision with an optimal outcome.

[awoodard]

Hi all,

I ended up with a completely unexpected 30k/year scholly from GULC.
I updated the original post, but the COAs are as follows:

UVA: sticker
GULC: ~175k
W&M: ~100k

is the extra 75k worth it to attend GULC (given the better shot at clerkships, competitive public interest jobs from GULC)?

Thanks for your input!

[Law Sauce]

Hi all,

I ended up with a completely unexpected 30k/year scholly from GULC.
I updated the original post, but the COAs are as follows:

UVA: sticker
GULC: ~175k
W&M: ~100k

is the extra 75k worth it to attend GULC (given the better shot at clerkships, competitive public interest jobs from GULC)?

Thanks for your input!

~175k seems high with your 30k/yr scholarship. Even so, I'd go to GULC. UVA is better but 30k/yr is a substantial scholarship and GULC can potentially open all the same doors (and it has lots of public service and government connections in DC). Even though people make fun of GULC's biglaw placement on these boards, W&M is still not in the same league.

Look into GULC's LRAP to see if you are comfortable with it. I seem to remember that it is strong, but I don't remember the details exactly.

[TheSpanishMain]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Why is W&M never worth attending even if free? It's a perfectly respectable regional school with an okay-ish employment score. I wouldn't do it at sticker or if I was Big Law or bust, but it's not a Cooley-esque dive by any means.

[TheSpanishMain]

~175k seems high with your 30k/yr scholarship.

Was thinking this too. You should only be paying about 60k in tuition, and while DC CoL isn't cheap, you should be able to keep it lower than that.

[awoodard]

~175k seems high with your 30k/yr scholarship.

Was thinking this too. You should only be paying about 60k in tuition, and while DC CoL isn't cheap, you should be able to keep it lower than that.

Yeah, I included that because the GULC cost estimator accounts for a 3-4% increase in tuition each year, and adds in your accrued interest by the end of 3 years. Base debt will be $150k.

[Chrysogonus]

Hi all,

I ended up with a completely unexpected 30k/year scholly from GULC.
I updated the original post, but the COAs are as follows:

UVA: sticker
GULC: ~175k
W&M: ~100k

is the extra 75k worth it to attend GULC (given the better shot at clerkships, competitive public interest jobs from GULC)?

Thanks for your input!

Out of curiosity, was that scholly all merit or merit + need?

Also, I would definitely go with GULC in this case. 30k/year is solid.

[awoodard]

Out of curiosity, was that scholly all merit or merit + need?

Also, I would definitely go with GULC in this case. 30k/year is solid.

It was a merit award, I didn't receive any need-based.

I'm definitely leaning toward GULC at this point, will probably make my deposit in the next few days.
Thanks everyone!

[californiauser]

Georgetown with a 90k scholarship costs 175k total? The bottom really needs to fall out of some of these schools asap

[Nelson]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Why is W&M never worth attending even if free? It's a perfectly respectable regional school with an okay-ish employment score. I wouldn't do it at sticker or if I was Big Law or bust, but it's not a Cooley-esque dive by any means.

"Strong regionals" (a misnomer if there ever was one) are huge traps for people not from the region. If you're not top of the class at W&M and you're not from VA, you're facing a ridiculous uphill battle to get a job. Most of that biglaw placement is probably in NYC (~12% big firms and ~8% NYC placement) and goes to people with top grades. VA is parochial as hell. What's the point of spending 100k in living expenses and three years of your life for something that is highly unlikely to get you a desirable job?

That's why I said there had to be a middle ground and there is. GULC is easily the choice here.

[TheSpanishMain]

Yeah, I agree with that to the extent that you shouldn't go unless you A) have ties to VA and a desire to work there and B) are fine with the possibility of a small firm/state and local government and C) get a large scholarship.

That's a far cry from "never go" though.

[BigZuck]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Why is W&M never worth attending even if free? It's a perfectly respectable regional school with an okay-ish employment score. I wouldn't do it at sticker or if I was Big Law or bust, but it's not a Cooley-esque dive by any means.

"Strong regionals" (a misnomer if there ever was one) are huge traps for people not from the region. If you're not top of the class at W&M and you're not from VA, you're facing a ridiculous uphill battle to get a job. Most of that biglaw placement is probably in NYC (~12% big firms and ~8% NYC placement) and goes to people with top grades. VA is parochial as hell. What's the point of spending 100k in living expenses and three years of your life for something that is highly unlikely to get you a desirable job?

That's why I said there had to be a middle ground and there is. GULC is easily the choice here.

You said its never worth attending even if free. That means its never worth it for a Virginian if it costs 0 dollars and he has modest career goals. But then you go on to say it's not worth it for someone who is not from Virginia and they have to pay 100K. Does that mean in Nellyland that Virginians don't exist and the only people who attend W&M are from out of state and pay 100k?

Come on bro.

[Nelson]

I lean UVA since W&M is not worth attending at any price but there must be a middle ground here. Also if you don't want biglaw what do you want to do?

Why is W&M never worth attending even if free? It's a perfectly respectable regional school with an okay-ish employment score. I wouldn't do it at sticker or if I was Big Law or bust, but it's not a Cooley-esque dive by any means.

"Strong regionals" (a misnomer if there ever was one) are huge traps for people not from the region. If you're not top of the class at W&M and you're not from VA, you're facing a ridiculous uphill battle to get a job. Most of that biglaw placement is probably in NYC (~12% big firms and ~8% NYC placement) and goes to people with top grades. VA is parochial as hell. What's the point of spending 100k in living expenses and three years of your life for something that is highly unlikely to get you a desirable job?

That's why I said there had to be a middle ground and there is. GULC is easily the choice here.

You said its never worth attending even if free. That means its never worth it for a Virginian if it costs 0 dollars and he has modest career goals. But then you go on to say it's not worth it for someone who is not from Virginia and they have to pay 100K. Does that mean in Nellyland that Virginians don't exist and the only people who attend W&M are from out of state and pay 100k?

Come on bro.

Does any of that apply to OP? Read much "bro"?

[BigZuck]

Broseph-multiple people pointed out the absurdity of what you posted. It's not our fault you're too obstinate to correct a hastily written and poorly phrased post.

Not worth attending for the OP? Sure. But that's not how it reads. Your personal struggle with the English language is on you bro, not us.

[Princetonlaw68]

Broseph-multiple people pointed out the absurdity of what you posted. It's not our fault you're too obstinate to correct a hastily written and poorly phrased post.

Not worth attending for the OP? Sure. But that's not how it reads. Your personal struggle with the English language is on you bro, not us.

+1

[hopefulapplicant2]

Hi all,

I ended up with a completely unexpected 30k/year scholly from GULC.
I updated the original post, but the COAs are as follows:

UVA: sticker
GULC: ~175k
W&M: ~100k

is the extra 75k worth it to attend GULC (given the better shot at clerkships, competitive public interest jobs from GULC)?

Thanks for your input!

Out of curiosity, was that scholly all merit or merit + need?

Also, I would definitely go with GULC in this case. 30k/year is solid.

If this is the best negotiation result you can achieve, I would go with GULC.

[Nelson]

Broseph-multiple people pointed out the absurdity of what you posted. It's not our fault you're too obstinate to correct a hastily written and poorly phrased post.

Not worth attending for the OP? Sure. But that's not how it reads. Your personal struggle with the English language is on you bro, not us.

+1

The class of VA residents with the stats to get full rides at W&M can also get UVA with $$ (or maybe a handful of reverse splitters, in which case they still shouldn't go to W&M). But I'm glad you're looking out for their interests against my post that clearly referred to OP's situation.