UF free vs Cornell Sticker Forum

[applyinglate]

You may want to add a "Retake the LSAT" option in your poll. No one is going to recommend Cornell at sticker. UF for free seems like a good option if you are okay with staying in FL.

Added. Thank you.

[patogordo]

the further into the future you look, the less important your salary should be to you today, and the less your salary will have to do with what school you went to. yes there is some path dependence but the biglaw-> great exit options route isn't nearly as clear cut as people make it sound. you may leave law altogether after biglaw and still have quite a bit of debt remaining.

I can’t really quit law as a whole, as my bachelors is useless. But regardless, would the same not apply to midsize law as well?

there are plenty of fields you can go into with a "useless" bachelor's degree that aren't law. they may not be as milky white collar or pay as much up front but there are alternatives, especially with no debt.

leaving law is always a possibility but it's much different with a negative net worth of $200k+

[applyinglate]

1. making 60k starting from UF would be considered a good outcome. You likely won't be in the top ~15% that land biglaw/fed clerk gigs so you really shouldn't bank on that.
2. If you are realistic about your job prospects after graduating, go to UF.
3. If you want to work biglaw in NYC, go to Cornell and bite the bullet on sticker price.

1. You think 60k is reasonable for a UF graduate? Most employees at my contact graduated from UM and T3/4… Not sure if there would likely be a difference.
2. I’m trying to be as realistic as possible.
3. What benefits would there be to work in biglaw in NYC and go sticker at Cornell if I would in the end, make less money? – I’m only talking about capital-wise.

At Cornell sticker, these are the payments you're looking at:

Approximate total payments (10-year level payments) monthly $3,525 total $423,004

Approximate total payments (25-year level payments) monthly $2,208 total $662,382

While Cornell might have a bigger upside, it's worst case scenario is truly horrific. Personally, I'd vote UF. If you miss biglaw at Cornell, you're in a world of hurt. Even if you get biglaw, how do you know if you'll like it or how long you'll last?

I agree that looks terrible. At the same time, all options don’t really seem attractive to me. Unfortunately, this is the position I’m in. Thank you for the feedback.

[applyinglate]

the further into the future you look, the less important your salary should be to you today, and the less your salary will have to do with what school you went to. yes there is some path dependence but the biglaw-> great exit options route isn't nearly as clear cut as people make it sound. you may leave law altogether after biglaw and still have quite a bit of debt remaining.

I can’t really quit law as a whole, as my bachelors is useless. But regardless, would the same not apply to midsize law as well?

there are plenty of fields you can go into with a "useless" bachelor's degree that aren't law. they may not be as milky white collar or pay as much up front but there are alternatives, especially with no debt.

leaving law is always a possibility but it's much different with a negative net worth of $200k+

.

[patogordo]

yea but still

[Tiago Splitter]

2. Go to UF for free and work on or about 60k salary for the next 10 years.

I wouldn't be this optimistic about waltzing into a 60k job out of UF. But you should retake the LSAT and see what happens next year, especially if you have a decent GPA. Florida's offer will still be there.

[ohioguy99]

I'm debt averse so I'd say Florida.

Depends on how comfortable you are with debt.

[applyinglate]

2. Go to UF for free and work on or about 60k salary for the next 10 years.

I wouldn't be this optimistic about waltzing into a 60k job out of UF. But you should retake the LSAT and see what happens next year, especially if you have a decent GPA. Florida's offer will still be there.

I have a very good contact that is basically guaranteed for a 60k job after law school, but I understand what you mean.
Very true.

[twenty]

In the best case scenario from Cornell, you'll get a job that pays market in NYC, which means even if you try and pay as much as you possibly can on your student loans, there's still no way you'll be breaking even until year 4 or so. From there, you lateral into an in-house somewhere that pays 110k/yr. This is assuming that a lot of things go your way, including getting biglaw and not getting laid off once you're in biglaw.

In the worst case scenario from UF, you'll be a part of the non-practicing 45% of the graduating class. You've spent three years of your life getting an graduate degree, but hey, it didn't cost you anything. Go work for an insurance company or something.

In order, your best choices are retake > UF > Cornell.

[applyinglate]

In the best case scenario from Cornell, you'll get a job that pays market in NYC, which means even if you try and pay as much as you possibly can on your student loans, there's still no way you'll be breaking even until year 4 or so. From there, you lateral into an in-house somewhere that pays 110k/yr. This is assuming that a lot of things go your way, including getting biglaw and not getting laid off once you're in biglaw.

In the worst case scenario from UF, you'll be a part of the non-practicing 45% of the graduating class. You've spent three years of your life getting an graduate degree, but hey, it didn't cost you anything. Go work for an insurance company or something.

In order, your best choices are retake > UF > Cornell.

That could be very true. Would retake really be > UF?

[Tiago Splitter]

Would retake really be > UF?

It's not one or the other. You retake and see if better options become available. If not, you go to Florida. You could even retake in June and if you don't improve go to Florida in the fall.

[applyinglate]

Would retake really be > UF?

It's not one or the other. You retake and see if better options become available. If not, you go to Florida. You could even retake in June and if you don't improve go to Florida in the fall.

I didn't think about that, that's probably the best course of action. I wonder if I can still register...

[Otunga]

If you don't retake, then Florida. If you retake and don't improve, then Florida. If you retake and improve sufficiently, then perhaps you get t14 with a scholarship.

60k seems like an above average non-biglaw salary in today's market.

[applyinglate]

If you don't retake, then Florida. If you retake and don't improve, then Florida. If you retake and improve sufficiently, then perhaps you get t14 with a scholarship.

60k seems like an above average non-biglaw salary in today's market.

Yeah... If I don't improve sufficiently, is it worth it to take time off again?

60k sucks man.

[northwood]

A question: Did you already quit working/ inform your boss that you are going to go to school in August? If not, then you haven't lost a years worth of work yet if you re-take. ( You cant estimate what you will be making after law school, there are just too many variables).

Now, to answer your question. If you must go this year, then go to UF. Since you want to make the most money in 10 years, you need to keep your costs as low as possible. Otherwise, your expenses will negate your additional profits. Not to mention that Cornell is vastly different than Florida, which may make you even more miserable because you are paying sticker price to enjoy an upstate New York winter for the next 3 years, on top of the stresses of law school.

For those reasons, I don't think you should consider paying sticker to go anywhere this cycle. If you want your best options for biglaw, retake and reapply ( or reapply if you did not just apply to all schools in the T14 +UF/ FSU)

[Otunga]

If you don't retake, then Florida. If you retake and don't improve, then Florida. If you retake and improve sufficiently, then perhaps you get t14 with a scholarship.

60k seems like an above average non-biglaw salary in today's market.

Yeah... If I don't improve sufficiently, is it worth it to take time off again?

60k sucks man.

It could suck. All I'm saying is that it seems above average for non-biglaw. "Shitlaw" generally pays like 40k.

[applyinglate]

A question: Did you already quit working/ inform your boss that you are going to go to school in August? If not, then you haven't lost a years worth of work yet if you re-take. ( You cant estimate what you will be making after law school, there are just too many variables).

I can’t really study and work. I work about 70/75 hours per week. That said, they expect me to start law school over the fall.

Now, to answer your question. If you must go this year, then go to UF. Since you want to make the most money in 10 years, you need to keep your costs as low as possible. Otherwise, your expenses will negate your additional profits. Not to mention that Cornell is vastly different than Florida, which may make you even more miserable because you are paying sticker price to enjoy an upstate New York winter for the next 3 years, on top of the stresses of law school.

For those reasons, I don't think you should consider paying sticker to go anywhere this cycle. If you want your best options for biglaw, retake and reapply ( or reapply if you did not just apply to all schools in the T14 +UF/ FSU)

I asked this before, but do you think there is any room to negotiate a scholarship w/ Cornell?

[applyinglate]

If you don't retake, then Florida. If you retake and don't improve, then Florida. If you retake and improve sufficiently, then perhaps you get t14 with a scholarship.

60k seems like an above average non-biglaw salary in today's market.

Yeah... If I don't improve sufficiently, is it worth it to take time off again?

60k sucks man.

It could suck. All I'm saying is that it seems above average for non-biglaw. "Shitlaw" generally pays like 40k.

Oh yeah, for sure. Lowest I seen is 35k...

[twenty]

To me, starting at 60k and working your way up to 80-90k seems far more preferable to making 0k (because everything you're making better go into loans) with 4 years post law school making 100k~.

[northwood]

A question: Did you already quit working/ inform your boss that you are going to go to school in August? If not, then you haven't lost a years worth of work yet if you re-take. ( You cant estimate what you will be making after law school, there are just too many variables).

I can’t really study and work. I work about 70/75 hours per week. That said, they expect me to start law school over the fall.

Now, to answer your question. If you must go this year, then go to UF. Since you want to make the most money in 10 years, you need to keep your costs as low as possible. Otherwise, your expenses will negate your additional profits. Not to mention that Cornell is vastly different than Florida, which may make you even more miserable because you are paying sticker price to enjoy an upstate New York winter for the next 3 years, on top of the stresses of law school.

For those reasons, I don't think you should consider paying sticker to go anywhere this cycle. If you want your best options for biglaw, retake and reapply ( or reapply if you did not just apply to all schools in the T14 +UF/ FSU)

I asked this before, but do you think there is any room to negotiate a scholarship w/ Cornell?

It never hurts to try. But what were your numbers?

[Nucky]

Personally, and I realize I'm in the minority here, but I'd go Cornell. Just live like a spartan and push through. That degree will always be behind you and open doors a UF degree won't. FWIW, I'm a guy who will be going to Florida for cheap. But man, I can't imagine saying no to Cornell.

That being said, if sitting out and retaking is a possibility, I'd go that route.

Good luck, whatever you decide. Either way, congrats on putting yourself in a position with no legitimately bad outcome.

[patogordo]

lol living like a spartan won't help you with 60k/yr tuition

[Nucky]

lol living like a spartan won't help you with 60k/yr tuition

Well that's "only" 180k compared to the 500k that's been thrown around here.

But I guess that's including compounding interest and such so I understand.

All thins considered, it's really tough to make a solid rec without numbers but hey, Cornell is Cornell. For those of you with multiple T14 acceptances, props, but you're living in dream world(a rightfully earned dream world, I assume). But if these are OPs best options, it MAY behoove him to go t14 wherever he snuck in.

Just my two cents...

[Nucky]

Sorry for typos. Chiming in from phone and typing quickly.

Even as a man saddled with debt, no one will ever be able to strip you of the fact that you went to Cornell Law. Do well enough your first year, and scholarships, transfers, and opportunities will be abound. If after first semester/year you're the runt of the pack you can always drop.

Listen though, OP, I'm a gambler, I think I've established that throughout my posts. So take this with an appropriate grain of salt. I don't know you, or your strengths/weaknesses, but if Cornell offered me a seat(I'm currently pending), I'd run with it. Dare to be great.

[patogordo]

Even as a man saddled with debt, no one will ever be able to strip you of the fact that you went to Cornell Law. Do well enough your first year, and scholarships, transfers, and opportunities will be abound. If after first semester/year you're the runt of the pack you can always drop.

you could do the same thing at UF for $0 instead of like $80k