Mich ($105K) vs Northwestern ($150K) Forum

[rickgrimes69]

NU is the hands down no brainer here

But we aren't going to start pretending that Northwestern is a better school than Duke are we? These schools are peers (which is the reason you've just got to follow the money when the disparity is so great).

Maybe I was just misunderstanding the NU bros when they said its the "best" or had "the best placement" because they meant "best in the Midwest?"

+1. NU is definitely TCR here but only because of the price disparity and OP's preference for Chicago

[bjsesq]

These schools are peers (which is the reason you've just got to follow the money when the disparity is so great).

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with this.

[Tiago Splitter]

NU is the hands down no brainer here

But we aren't going to start pretending that Northwestern is a better school than Duke are we? These schools are peers (which is the reason you've just got to follow the money when the disparity is so great).

Maybe I was just misunderstanding the NU bros when they said its the "best" or had "the best placement" because they meant "best in the Midwest?"

Has anyone ITT said NU is hands down better than Duke? I assumed OP took Duke out of consideration because NU is offering an extra 75k. Any of Cornell/Mich/NU with the OP's offers would be better than Duke for pretty much any career goal.

[lawschool22]

The chances of a federal clerkship or federal gov from either of this schools is going to be the same (very small) and shouldn't enter into your decision. If you want to go down that road later in your career, fine, but it's likely going to be biglaw for you.

Given your geographic preferences, and the fact you will likely be targeting biglaw, then NU is a no-brainer. It places better than Michigan, and is cheaper. Not to mention, if you do want to target some sort of PI later on in your career, having your debt paid down quicker will give you the flexibility you may need to take a career opportunity like that.

Have fun in Chicago, and congratulations on an awesome scholarship.

[09042014]

The chances of a federal clerkship or federal gov from either of this schools is going to be the same (very small) and shouldn't enter into your decision. If you want to go down that road later in your career, fine, but it's likely going to be biglaw for you.

Given your geographic preferences, and the fact you will likely be targeting biglaw, then NU is a no-brainer. It places better than Michigan, and is cheaper. Not to mention, if you do want to target some sort of PI later on in your career, having your debt paid down quicker will give you the flexibility you may need to take a career opportunity like that.

Have fun in Chicago, and congratulations on an awesome scholarship.

Very small is overstating it. You probably have a 25% chance of scoring a clerkship at NU, maybe more. Assuming you apply very broadly geographically. Especially with the rancid grade inflation you could probably score a clerkship after being median 1L, but you'd probably have to do it a year or two after graduation.

[lawschool22]

The chances of a federal clerkship or federal gov from either of this schools is going to be the same (very small) and shouldn't enter into your decision. If you want to go down that road later in your career, fine, but it's likely going to be biglaw for you.

Given your geographic preferences, and the fact you will likely be targeting biglaw, then NU is a no-brainer. It places better than Michigan, and is cheaper. Not to mention, if you do want to target some sort of PI later on in your career, having your debt paid down quicker will give you the flexibility you may need to take a career opportunity like that.

Have fun in Chicago, and congratulations on an awesome scholarship.

Very small is overstating it. You probably have a 25% chance of scoring a clerkship at NU, maybe more. Assuming you apply very broadly geographically. Especially with the rancid grade inflation you could probably score a clerkship after being median 1L, but you'd probably have to do it a year or two after graduation.

I assume you're talking about all clerkships? OP mentioned federal, which I would assume you do not have a 25% chance at, but I could definitely be wrong.

[09042014]

The chances of a federal clerkship or federal gov from either of this schools is going to be the same (very small) and shouldn't enter into your decision. If you want to go down that road later in your career, fine, but it's likely going to be biglaw for you.

Given your geographic preferences, and the fact you will likely be targeting biglaw, then NU is a no-brainer. It places better than Michigan, and is cheaper. Not to mention, if you do want to target some sort of PI later on in your career, having your debt paid down quicker will give you the flexibility you may need to take a career opportunity like that.

Have fun in Chicago, and congratulations on an awesome scholarship.

Very small is overstating it. You probably have a 25% chance of scoring a clerkship at NU, maybe more. Assuming you apply very broadly geographically. Especially with the rancid grade inflation you could probably score a clerkship after being median 1L, but you'd probably have to do it a year or two after graduation.

I assume you're talking about all clerkships? OP mentioned federal, which I would assume you do not have a 25% chance at, but I could definitely be wrong.

No I mean federal. Nearly 10% actually clerk. Most people who have the grades don't bother applying. I'm not entirely sure what grade range it becomes impoosible but 50% of the class has a 3.65 or better at graduation. I don't think that disqualifies you from noncompetitive district courts.

[rayiner]

The chances of a federal clerkship or federal gov from either of this schools is going to be the same (very small) and shouldn't enter into your decision. If you want to go down that road later in your career, fine, but it's likely going to be biglaw for you.

Given your geographic preferences, and the fact you will likely be targeting biglaw, then NU is a no-brainer. It places better than Michigan, and is cheaper. Not to mention, if you do want to target some sort of PI later on in your career, having your debt paid down quicker will give you the flexibility you may need to take a career opportunity like that.

Have fun in Chicago, and congratulations on an awesome scholarship.

Very small is overstating it. You probably have a 25% chance of scoring a clerkship at NU, maybe more. Assuming you apply very broadly geographically. Especially with the rancid grade inflation you could probably score a clerkship after being median 1L, but you'd probably have to do it a year or two after graduation.

I assume you're talking about all clerkships? OP mentioned federal, which I would assume you do not have a 25% chance at, but I could definitely be wrong.

8% federal clerking is at graduation. Historically, maybe half again as many people will clerk at some point after graduation. And of course lots of people who have the grades don't clerk. People going into corp, JDMBAs, AJDs. 25% is a pretty good estimate I'd guess of people who could clerk if they really wanted and were willing to alumni clerk.

[Tiago Splitter]

At T-14's much of the clerkship placement issue comes down to whether you are willing to be really flexible geographically. A lot of people don't want to clerk at all, but many others will only do so if they can land one of the more competitive districts.

[lawschool22]

Thanks guys, that all makes sense. I wasn't aware of that.

ETA: Is this something Northwestern-specific? I keep seeing mention in various threads of grade inflation; is that referring to NU specifically?

[rayiner]

Thanks guys, that all makes sense. I wasn't aware of that.

ETA: Is this something Northwestern-specific? I keep seeing mention in various threads of grade inflation; is that referring to NU specifically?

No. I think the grade inflation at Cornell and Penn is just as bad.

[09042014]

Thanks guys, that all makes sense. I wasn't aware of that.

ETA: Is this something Northwestern-specific? I keep seeing mention in various threads of grade inflation; is that referring to NU specifically?

The clerking? No that's every T14. The idea that everyone capable of clerking does it is a TLS myth. It's not just transactional people or MBAs, plenty of people going into Lit have no urge to do it. Personally I don't want to move to some random place for a year. And I'm not convinced a random clerkship will be any help for my career.

Grade inflation: NU isn't the only school that does it, but a lot of schools don't. And NU's is pretty bad. Like I said 3.65 is median at graduation. That won't help you a ton since you apply for clerkships during second semester 2L now right? You'd only have one semester of juicing your GPA. But if you apply as an alumn you'll have a better GPA and work experience.

[rickgrimes69]

The chances of a federal clerkship or federal gov from either of this schools is going to be the same (very small) and shouldn't enter into your decision. If you want to go down that road later in your career, fine, but it's likely going to be biglaw for you.

Given your geographic preferences, and the fact you will likely be targeting biglaw, then NU is a no-brainer. It places better than Michigan, and is cheaper. Not to mention, if you do want to target some sort of PI later on in your career, having your debt paid down quicker will give you the flexibility you may need to take a career opportunity like that.

Have fun in Chicago, and congratulations on an awesome scholarship.

Very small is overstating it. You probably have a 25% chance of scoring a clerkship at NU, maybe more.

Huh? I don't think any school outside of HYS has ever placed 25% of its class into Clerkships, even if you include State ones.

[09042014]

The chances of a federal clerkship or federal gov from either of this schools is going to be the same (very small) and shouldn't enter into your decision. If you want to go down that road later in your career, fine, but it's likely going to be biglaw for you.

Given your geographic preferences, and the fact you will likely be targeting biglaw, then NU is a no-brainer. It places better than Michigan, and is cheaper. Not to mention, if you do want to target some sort of PI later on in your career, having your debt paid down quicker will give you the flexibility you may need to take a career opportunity like that.

Have fun in Chicago, and congratulations on an awesome scholarship.

Very small is overstating it. You probably have a 25% chance of scoring a clerkship at NU, maybe more.

Huh? I don't think any school outside of HYS has ever placed 25% of its class into Clerkships, even if you include State ones.

You presume that most people try for a clerkship, they do not.

[Jackie U]

ETA: Is this something Northwestern-specific? I keep seeing mention in various threads of grade inflation; is that referring to NU specifically?

Given the curve, what is grade inflation? New term to me.

BTW: Against Mich, NU for sure.

[bjsesq]

ETA: Is this something Northwestern-specific? I keep seeing mention in various threads of grade inflation; is that referring to NU specifically?

Given the curve, what is grade inflation? New term to me.

BTW: Against Mich, NU for sure.

It refers to NU having a high median for its students as opposed to other institutions. The idea is that "HOLY SHIT, 3.65 at NU is amazeballs fapfapfap" while "Oh, only 3.4 at UVA?" even if they have the same value relative to the curve.

[Jackie U]

Given the curve, what is grade inflation? New term to me.

It refers to NU having a high median for its students as opposed to other institutions. The idea is that "HOLY SHIT, 3.65 at NU is amazeballs fapfapfap" while "Oh, only 3.4 at UVA?" even if they have the same value relative to the curve.

Got it. Thx.

[BigZuck]

Has anyone ITT said NU is hands down better than Duke? I assumed OP took Duke out of consideration because NU is offering an extra 75k. Any of Cornell/Mich/NU with the OP's offers would be better than Duke for pretty much any career goal.

I'm not sure, but maybe two NU bros did?

Northwestern is the best school of your three

you have the most money at the school with the best placement out of your three choices.

It can be hard to tell what DF is saying some times because of the dislexic/illiterate nature of his posting style coupled with a general trolly nature (and that's not a slam on DF, I love reading his struggles with the English language and I think he's a great poster). Rayiner saying that was kind of surprising. I thought maybe DF was NU shilling as a joke but both might have been talking about placement in terms of overall job placement coupled with Midwest placement in which case 100%, I agree. I assume that's what they meant?

[rickgrimes69]

The chances of a federal clerkship or federal gov from either of this schools is going to be the same (very small) and shouldn't enter into your decision. If you want to go down that road later in your career, fine, but it's likely going to be biglaw for you.

Given your geographic preferences, and the fact you will likely be targeting biglaw, then NU is a no-brainer. It places better than Michigan, and is cheaper. Not to mention, if you do want to target some sort of PI later on in your career, having your debt paid down quicker will give you the flexibility you may need to take a career opportunity like that.

Have fun in Chicago, and congratulations on an awesome scholarship.

Very small is overstating it. You probably have a 25% chance of scoring a clerkship at NU, maybe more.

Huh? I don't think any school outside of HYS has ever placed 25% of its class into Clerkships, even if you include State ones.

You presume that most people try for a clerkship, they do not.

In no way, shape, or form does that even begin to imply that they could have gotten one if they had.

[jbagelboy]

Applying for a federal clerkship sounds like a bitch. All my 2L friends that actually took the time to go through that process got one (not all CoA some district), but the vast majority of people don't subject themselves to that. The people who haven't cozied up to any professors or have evidently bad grades and/or no journal definitely wouldn't try. Obviously there are certainly others that tried and failed and wouldn't boast about it (so I wouldn't know if they had), but still.

[Tiago Splitter]

Even at schools that don't have such severe grade inflation the competition drops off rapidly after 1L. So if you're a clerkship gunner from the get-go and are willing to alumni clerk you can put together a pretty good transcript even without a great 1L year.

[09042014]

Very small is overstating it. You probably have a 25% chance of scoring a clerkship at NU, maybe more.

Huh? I don't think any school outside of HYS has ever placed 25% of its class into Clerkships, even if you include State ones.

You presume that most people try for a clerkship, they do not.

In no way, shape, or form does that even begin to imply that they could have gotten one if they had.

First of all, I said that to disprove your retarded counter of " I don't think any school outside of HYS has ever placed 25% of its class into Clerkships, even if you include State ones." Your argument only makes sense if you presume everyone tries to get a clerkship.

Second, tt sort of does when you look at who that 9% that do clerkships are.

Grades % - Chances

10 95
20 70
30 45
40 25
50 5
60 4
70 3
80 2
90 1
100 0

would yield 25% overall. Of course I'm pulling this out of my ass, and I'm assuming you try hard and apply broadly. But it's a good ballpark.

[rayiner]

In no way, shape, or form does that even begin to imply that they could have gotten one if they had.

Getting a federal clerkship is mostly a function of grades, making nice with professors, and having a willingness to live anywhere for a year. If you got to school with an eye towards clerking, you can control the latter two factors. That just leaves grades. What percentage of the class has the grades to get a federal clerkship? I think about 25% is a very reasonable estimate for the lower-T14.

Obviously, if everyone tried to clerk, the competition would get more intense and the bar would go up. But not everyone wants to clerk. Less than a third of the people who graduated magna (top 5%) my year at NU clerked within the first two years after graduation. Any one of those folks could've gotten a clerkship if they had wanted one.

[rickgrimes69]

Grades % - Chances

10 95
20 70
30 45
40 25
50 5
60 4
70 3
80 2
90 1
100 0

would yield 25% overall. Of course I'm pulling this out of my ass, and I'm assuming you try hard and apply broadly. But it's a good ballpark.

My point exactly. Grades are necessary, but definitely not sufficient for getting a clerkship. I'm not even going through the clerking process and I know that much. I know people in the top 5% on LR who can't find a clerkship anywhere, and I know a guy hovering around the top third who has one lined up. It's primarily, but not exclusively grades, and your implication that everyone in the top 25% *could* have gotten a clerkship if they wanted is (1) wrong and (2) nonsensical (do enough Fed Clerkships even exist to allow everyone in the top 25% to get one?)

[Tiago Splitter]

It's not just grades, and your implication that everyone with top 25% grades *could* have gotten a clerkship if they wanted is (1) wrong and (2) nonsensical (do enough Fed Clerkships even exist to allow everyone in the top 25% to get one?)

No one is arguing that if the entire top 25% at NU went for the clerkship that they'd all get one.