Update: CLS $ vs Cornell $$$ Forum

[BanjoCalhoun]

Did you get any aid at Michigan or Northwestern? These could be sensible middle road options between the choice of extreme debt versus extreme lack of opportunity. Your best option might be to get over any inclination you have for NYC because life there with 300k debt would not be pleasant for the next 10 years or so. Otherwise Columbia for the firm placement.

[northwood]

I blanked the T14 except for Michigan, NU, and GULC. Mainly because I had no interest in those schools. I was waitlisted at UVA (YP I hope). I could wait, but it wouldnt help my numbers at all. And I don't think the cycle will be as generous next year (Feb LSATs were up). Also, I worry what Columbia would think about withdrawing and applying again. I can't imagine they would look to favorably upon my indecision next cycle.

A lot of people defer matriculating for a year for a variety of reasons. Deciding to go to law school is a big decision, and a lot of people have second thoughts or have something come up unexpectedly and decide that the upcoming fall semester is not the right time, thus putting off law school for another year, and then reapply in the fall. Its not something to worry about, and is not necessarily considered being indecisive.

You are competing against people with your numbers and above. The better you score, the less likely there are as many people with your numbers. Sure the number of 172+ may have increased since last LSAT cycle, but overall less than 10% of all test takers get those numbers and decide to matriculate ( perhaps they too have reconsidered law school over another career option) .

if your gut tells you to wait it out- then you should wait it out. If you are super worried about a particular offer- contact the school and talk to them about it- perhaps they may offer more insight than TLS for your particular situation/ circumstances.

[buffalo_]

Bump, with Fordham info

[TheSpanishMain]

How are you at 185k for Fordham with 30k a year? How high is the tuition there? I mean, I realize NYC is expensive, but holy shit..

[beepboopbeep]

How are you at 185k for Fordham with 30k a year? How high is the tuition there? I mean, I realize NYC is expensive, but holy shit..

That number sounds right to me. I'm not at much less than that with $25k/yr at UofC, and Chicago is much cheaper CoL than NYC. Fordham tuition is $50k/yr.

[buffalo_]

How are you at 185k for Fordham with 30k a year? How high is the tuition there? I mean, I realize NYC is expensive, but holy shit..

I used lawschool22's COA spreadsheet. Fordham tuition is $50k. I am assuming I will take health insurance (even though I can probably stay covered under my parents for 1 year). And I am assuming the full COL that all of the schools project. Fordham puts room and board at 19K, which I think is even a little low, but they put 4K into the "Personal/Misc" category. Then about $3.5k for books. All told their anticipated COA for the first year is $79,797.

LS22's sheet also includes anticipated tuition hikes and interest. So it's about 50K per year plus interest after the scholarship.

[TheSpanishMain]

Yowza. Guess that makes sense. Way too expensive for Fordham IMO.

[whereskyle]

How low is your GPA? I'm thinking Duke may end up being the right choice, as I imagine they will give you a decent amount assuming your GPA isn't atrocious (which it probably isn't since you got into Columbia).

I agree with other posters that you should have applied to more schools. Is waiting an option?

I blanked the T14 except for Michigan, NU, and GULC. Mainly because I had no interest in those schools. I was waitlisted at UVA (YP I hope). I could wait, but it wouldnt help my numbers at all. And I don't think the cycle will be as generous next year (Feb LSATs were up). Also, I worry what Columbia would think about withdrawing and applying again. I can't imagine they would look to favorably upon my indecision next cycle.

I had no interest in attending lower T14s last cycle. When confronted last year with mid T14 at sticker, I sat out and applied to the rest of the T14 this cycle. Now, NU at 60k is clearly the best option I could have hoped for. You'll feel differently when you actually have the opportunity to go to a good school for an acceptable price. If you're willing to go to Duke at the right price, why not the others?

Honestly, Columbia's placement is shocking. I might have gone to Columbia for full price.

[Law Sauce]

How are you at 185k for Fordham with 30k a year? How high is the tuition there? I mean, I realize NYC is expensive, but holy shit..

I used lawschool22's COA spreadsheet. Fordham tuition is $50k. I am assuming I will take health insurance (even though I can probably stay covered under my parents for 1 year). And I am assuming the full COL that all of the schools project. Fordham puts room and board at 19K, which I think is even a little low, but they put 4K into the "Personal/Misc" category. Then about $3.5k for books. All told their anticipated COA for the first year is $79,797.

LS22's sheet also includes anticipated tuition hikes and interest. So it's about 50K per year plus interest after the scholarship.

You can definitely do better. $3.5k for book lol. I spent $85 this semester, but I am a 3L. Still probably sticker at Columbia, kind of sucks though

[buffalo_]

How are you at 185k for Fordham with 30k a year? How high is the tuition there? I mean, I realize NYC is expensive, but holy shit..

I used lawschool22's COA spreadsheet. Fordham tuition is $50k. I am assuming I will take health insurance (even though I can probably stay covered under my parents for 1 year). And I am assuming the full COL that all of the schools project. Fordham puts room and board at 19K, which I think is even a little low, but they put 4K into the "Personal/Misc" category. Then about $3.5k for books. All told their anticipated COA for the first year is $79,797.

LS22's sheet also includes anticipated tuition hikes and interest. So it's about 50K per year plus interest after the scholarship.

You can definitely do better. $3.5k for book lol. I spent $85 this semester, but I am a 3L. Still probably sticker at Columbia, kind of sucks though

Sorry I should have been more clear. It was $3.5k for books and transportation combined. Still, $1.7k for books is a lot more than $85! I would hope to be able to save on that. And I don't anticipate a high travel expense because any family I would visit is from the tri-state area and can be reached via mass transit. Though I would move to NY from a fair distance so that might essentially be moving costs for the first year.

[buffalo_]

Bumping with new info.

Duke offered $18k/ year. This makes Duke roughly $80k cheaper than NYU and $90k cheaper than Columbia.

Using LS22s spreasheet, it is $1,000 less per month on a 10 year repayment.

I think this will probably be most people's suggestion based on my options, but what if I like REALLY want to be in NYC. I have significant personal (family, friends, SO) all in NYC area and I have been living away from there for 2 years now and from a QOL standpoint that has not been great.

Please help me TLS!

[lawschool22]

Bumping with new info.

Duke offered $18k/ year. This makes Duke roughly $80k cheaper than NYU and $90k cheaper than Columbia.

Using LS22s spreasheet, it is $1,000 less per month on a 10 year repayment.

I think this will probably be most people's suggestion based on my options, but what if I like REALLY want to be in NYC. I have significant personal (family, friends, SO) all in NYC area and I have been living away from there for 2 years now and from a QOL standpoint that has not been great.

Please help me TLS!

Not a good enough reason on it's own imho.

[cotiger]

Bumping with new info.

Duke offered $18k/ year. This makes Duke roughly $80k cheaper than NYU and $90k cheaper than Columbia.

Using LS22s spreasheet, it is $1,000 less per month on a 10 year repayment.

I think this will probably be most people's suggestion based on my options, but what if I like REALLY want to be in NYC. I have significant personal (family, friends, SO) all in NYC area and I have been living away from there for 2 years now and from a QOL standpoint that has not been great.

Please help me TLS!

That's a totally personal question.. only you can decide how much it's worth.

From a purely objective standpoint, no way is NYU worth $80k+interest more than Duke.

[paglababa]

Bumping with new info.

Duke offered $18k/ year. This makes Duke roughly $80k cheaper than NYU and $90k cheaper than Columbia.

Using LS22s spreasheet, it is $1,000 less per month on a 10 year repayment.

I think this will probably be most people's suggestion based on my options, but what if I like REALLY want to be in NYC. I have significant personal (family, friends, SO) all in NYC area and I have been living away from there for 2 years now and from a QOL standpoint that has not been great.

Please help me TLS!

That's a totally personal question.. only you can decide how much it's worth.

From a purely objective standpoint, no way is NYU worth $80k+interest more than Duke.

[buffalo_]

From a purely objective standpoint, no way is NYU worth $80k+interest more than Duke.

80K includes the interest

[cotiger]

From a purely objective standpoint, no way is NYU worth $80k+interest more than Duke.

80K includes the interest

Interest continues to pile up after graduation while you're paying it back. It accrues at a faster rate, too, because it's compounding.

[cotiger]

If you pay back $60k/yr, then that $300k takes 6 years, while the $210k takes 4. That's a $120k difference.

[Law Sauce]

I don't think that it would be wrong to choose Columbia over Duke with small scholarship because you really want to go to Columbia. Its a personal decision and it is unclear exactly how to value much better Columbia is. If it was $30k/year it would be a different case.

[smokeylarue]

These poll results are so wrong. You have to go to CLS to maximize your chances of Big Law if that is the goal. At Columbia 75-80% of the class lands Big Law. At Duke its probably 55-60%. Twenty percent is MASSIVE difference. Better to have a safety net.

Unless of course you want to work in the South, then Duke is probably a just as good choice.

[smaug_]

These poll results are so wrong. You have to go to CLS to maximize your chances of Big Law if that is the goal. At Columbia 75-80% of the class lands Big Law. At Duke its probably 55-60%. Twenty percent is MASSIVE difference. Better to have a safety net.

Unless of course you want to work in the South, then Duke is probably a just as good choice.

another CLS student here to say you're wrong and that OP should go to Duke

[EnormousCheese]

NYU/CLS will give you a substantial edge in Big Law Hiring. If the difference is roughly 100k, I don't think Duke over NYU/CLS is necessarily better than NYU/CLS over Duke.

[jbagelboy]

These poll results are so wrong. You have to go to CLS to maximize your chances of Big Law if that is the goal. At Columbia 75-80% of the class lands Big Law. At Duke its probably 55-60%. Twenty percent is MASSIVE difference. Better to have a safety net.

Unless of course you want to work in the South, then Duke is probably a just as good choice.

another CLS student here to say you're wrong and that OP should go to Duke

I agree that CLS (or any school other than Yale) at sticker is not a wise choice.

But either option at this juncture will plunge OP into a horrific debt cycle. Paying $215,000 off from Duke means absolutely needing to stay at a large firm for a decent amount of time. Yes, it's maybe 1.5-2 yrs less than the $300k at CLS, but it isnt a sufficiently large discount to truly give any additional flexibility career-wise.

86% of your years' class got an offer with a market paying firm at EIP (of those who participated). This doesn't count those among the remaning 14% who mass-mailed a secondary market office not coming to EIP, or a more regional firm, and got an offer, ect. Maybe Duke can shoot near this figure, but I doubt it.

[banjo]

These poll results are so wrong. You have to go to CLS to maximize your chances of Big Law if that is the goal. At Columbia 75-80% of the class lands Big Law. At Duke its probably 55-60%. Twenty percent is MASSIVE difference. Better to have a safety net.

Unless of course you want to work in the South, then Duke is probably a just as good choice.

another CLS student here to say you're wrong and that OP should go to Duke

I agree that CLS (or any school other than Yale) at sticker is not a wise choice.

But either option at this juncture will plunge OP into a horrific debt cycle. Paying $215,000 off from Duke means absolutely needing to stay at a large firm for a decent amount of time. Yes, it's maybe 1.5-2 yrs less than the $300k at CLS, but it isnt a sufficiently large discount to truly give any additional flexibility career-wise.

86% of your years' class got an offer with a market paying firm at EIP (of those who participated). This doesn't count those among the remaning 14% who mass-mailed a secondary market office not coming to EIP, or a more regional firm, and got an offer, ect. Maybe Duke can shoot near this figure, but I doubt it.

Just to add to this, I believe the participation rate was 92%. Not really that much higher than Berkeley's 86% participation rate.

I'd actually like to see offer rates from HYS.

[gta]

At Columbia 75-80% of the class lands Big Law. At Duke its probably 55-60%. Twenty percent is MASSIVE difference. Better to have a safety net.

Why make up numbers when Law School Transparency is available? Fed Clerkship + BigLaw percentages (what OP stated he was interested in) for the three options here:

Columbia: 7.9 + 64.2 = 72.1%
NYU: 5.6 + 59.5 = 65.1%
Duke: 12.9 + 51.1 = 64.0%

Based on your goals, it appears NYU is the weakest option when factoring in cost (of course self-selection, PI may play a role, etc.).

[Tiago Splitter]

At Columbia 75-80% of the class lands Big Law. At Duke its probably 55-60%. Twenty percent is MASSIVE difference. Better to have a safety net.

Why make up numbers when Law School Transparency is available? Fed Clerkship + BigLaw percentages (what OP stated he was interested in) for the three options here:

Columbia: 7.9 + 64.2 = 72.1%
NYU: 5.6 + 59.5 = 65.1%
Duke: 12.9 + 51.1 = 64.0%

Based on your goals, it appears NYU is the weakest option when factoring in cost (of course self-selection, PI may play a role, etc.).

You can also use 2013 numbers:

Columbia: 73.2 + 4.8 = 78%
NYU: 58.3 + 8.8 = 67.0%
Duke: 51.4 + 8.7 = 60.2%