T2 --- Huge Scholarship Forum

[Danger Zone]

[TheSpanishMain]

No, not really. But I'm a very sociable guy! I could always buy drinks for my classmates and locals with my stipend money, if need be.

10k a year really isn't THAT much. You'll likely need to still take out some CoL loans. I'd say you're much better off going to LSU with a full ride. At least you have ties to the region, and LSU's numbers really aren't that bad.

[BigZuck]

No, not really. But I'm a very sociable guy! I could always buy drinks for my classmates and locals with my stipend money, if need be.

10k a year really isn't THAT much. You'll likely need to still take out some CoL loans. I'd say you're much better off going to LSU with a full ride. At least you have ties to the region, and LSU's numbers really aren't that bad.

Problem (as I remember it at least) is that he does not have LA ties either.

I agree though, LSU is a better option than whatever this is

[ronanOgara]

No, not really. But I'm a very sociable guy! I could always buy drinks for my classmates and locals with my stipend money, if need be.

10k a year really isn't THAT much. You'll likely need to still take out some CoL loans. I'd say you're much better off going to LSU with a full ride. At least you have ties to the region, and LSU's numbers really aren't that bad.

Problem (as I remember it at least) is that he does not have LA ties either.

I agree though, LSU is a better option than whatever this is

You think LSU (for free?) is better than RU-C for free w/ stipends? Even w/out ties to LA? Is it because of where RU-C is located? I'm honestly interested to hear why.

[Danger Zone]

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Sounds like you are in a decent spot Nucky. Can you find out what percent of the state and local clerks reported by this school are legitimate? Like how many state supreme, court of appeals, other appellate? New Jersey pays it's traffic court and DUI court people so desperate grads take those "clerkships." They are garbage outcomes. Honestly going solo is a better outcome.

Had a friend graduate from one if those schools. He did fine, but said lots of kiddos were now clerking for traffic courts...

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

How is the $ structured? 10k per year? Honestly to make this decision you need to figure out how much you want to be a lawyer. If you can imagine doing something else, spend a year working as hard as you can and try to get top grades. If you don't (or if you hate law) you can drop out. I'm on a full ride plus stipend myself but it's risky bc the type of school you're going to you will have abysmal job options if you see bottom half of class.

[rwhyAn]

Are there stips on the scholarship? If there aren't any, I think the RU-C deal is a great one. Even if you don't get a paid gig at all through law school, you'd only be looking at around $30k in debt after the stipend. There's also the very real possibility that you'll earn enough over the three years to come out debt-free or even ahead. Philly is a big market, and Camden is close enough to some of the other big markets (NYC, Baltimore, DC) that those are possibilities, albeit smaller ones. The northeast isn't like some podunk town in the middle of the deep south; having ties is overrated here. People move here from all over the country because there are more opportunities. If you have the credentials, you'll get picked up somewhere. Period.

[BigZuck]

No, not really. But I'm a very sociable guy! I could always buy drinks for my classmates and locals with my stipend money, if need be.

10k a year really isn't THAT much. You'll likely need to still take out some CoL loans. I'd say you're much better off going to LSU with a full ride. At least you have ties to the region, and LSU's numbers really aren't that bad.

Problem (as I remember it at least) is that he does not have LA ties either.

I agree though, LSU is a better option than whatever this is

You think LSU (for free?) is better than RU-C for free w/ stipends? Even w/out ties to LA? Is it because of where RU-C is located? I'm honestly interested to hear why.

Cuz Southernness

[Danger Zone]

[objctnyrhnr]

what is it they say? with risk comes reward...need to spend money to make money...bla bla bla. just playing devil's advocate.

[Snowboarder1588]

This is a solid option. Honestly as long as your scholly has no stips, you're in good shape. Those who say Philly is insular...can you please provide some support for that argument? Philly is the 5th largest city in the US, and has a large legal market. I would imagine that you going to school locally, doing well and as long as you can pull off some summer positions would help you build a decent network. Also, as far as your questions about clerkships aftermath, I have 2 friends who were able to obtain decent jobs after their clerkships (again small sample size so take it with a grain of salt). GL!

[Danger Zone]

[Nucky]

Lots to respond to here --- sorry if I dont get to everyone's questions.

In the interest of full disclosure, screw it, the school offering me this is Rutgers-Camden. Stip is 15k/year over the first two years. (third year I guess I will starve ).

As someone mentioned earlier, I estimate I will graduate with something in the neighborhood of $30k debt, but possibly less, or none, if I can secure decent summer employment.

As some of you have also pointed out, the clerkship situation is the real wild card here. Clerking for traffic court does not interest me in the least. But I cannot imagine the 100 or so students they place in clerkships all go to hell holes. Maybe half? I dont know...

Not to sound overly arrogant here, but it is Rutgers C, not Harvard, or even UFlorida. I am confident I could finish above median, and perhaps well above median. I interview well, and think I am the kind of guy who would mesh well in the "law firm culture." Does this matter? Maybe, maybe not. I guess what I am trying to say is that I think I can have a favorable outcome as long as I stay on top of my grades.

Of course, my goal is biglaw, midlaw, or respectable clerkship. So it is certainly a gamble no matter how you look at it.

But I must say, though the odds will be a bit longer here, it is nice to know I will be gambling with house money.

[Danger Zone]

[Nucky]

As for ties, I was born in New England, north of the wall --- think VT, NH, or ME, and my TLS avatar is Nucky Thompson. If that isn't a tie I don't know what is!

[Nucky]

Top 10% is a hard cutoff for most of the Philly firms that recruit from the local schools. You can't predict that. Everything after that is a total crap shoot, until you get to the bottom 10%, which is comprised of people who are never getting a full time legal job.

Yeah, I would feel comfortable predicting top third. Top 10% is a crapshoot with the curve. Not sure how I feel about pulling the trigger on that.

[BigZuck]

Midlaw doesn't exist, especially not for Rut-C schmos. So you want big law or a clerkship? Gotta retake dude.

[Danger Zone]

[Snowboarder1588]

If you're ok working outside of big law, you're in a good position. As far as the ties thing, umm....I've been in Philly for a little while..and unless the legal market is the complete opposite of other professions, it's not secular. It's the Northeast, not the South. As long as you articulate your desire to stay here and gain summer employment you should be fine. BTW, Dangerzone, I asked you to demonstrate your support for your argument not to comment on my merits to give advice. Anyways, no need to hijack Nucky's thread. Have fun at ASW Nucky, and I'll probably see you there!

[BigZuck]

Well, let me know if you do come here. I've got outlines and am a pillar in the community.

Also, NJ is one of the few places where mid law really does exist. Lots of firms with 50-200 attorneys that bring in summer associates with a starting pay of $90-145k. But, again, very small class sizes. We're talking five or fewer people.

It "exists" other places too (like TX) but not really in the way people think it exists. Most people seem to think "Oh, I don't NEED 160K and I'd rather work 9-5, so I'll just go do a 100K midlaw job." Also they think that when they don't quite make the big law cut off they'll just slip right in to the next best thing, which is midlaw. But of course you know this already. Also, I thought this whole time that you went to Cornell. Weird.

Nucks- DZ seems to be your man when it comes to NJ. I would listen to him.

[BigZuck]

If you're ok working outside of big law, you're in a good position. As far as the ties thing, umm....I've been in Philly for a little while..and unless the legal market is the complete opposite of other professions, it's not secular. It's the Northeast, not the South. As long as you articulate your desire to stay here and gain summer employment you should be fine. BTW, Dangerzone, I asked you to demonstrate your support for your argument not to comment on my merits to give advice. Anyways, no need to hijack Nucky's thread. Have fun at ASW Nucky, and I'll probably see you there!

Wait so you're a 0L that hasn't experienced legal hiring first hand and you're giving advice on what legal hirers look for?

From my limited experience, legal hiring is quite different than other professions in a number of different ways.

[Danger Zone]

[JuTMSY4]

Those who say Philly is insular...can you please provide some support for that argument? Philly is the 5th largest city in the US, and has a large legal market. I would imagine that you going to school locally, doing well and as long as you can pull off some summer positions would help you build a decent network.

You would think so, but you would be wrong. The city is big, the firms are big, but the summer associate classes are very small. Just go on NALP and look it up. Or ask some kids at Penn (and there are plenty here on TLS) how much Philly firms cared about their lack of ties. I say Penn because the local schools tend to draw local kids, with Penn being the exception, but it's true at any of the Philly area schools.

Also, and I know people generally mean well, but don't try to give this guy advice if you haven't been through OCI at a school around here.

You're generally incorrect.

[Nelson]

If you're ok working outside of big law, you're in a good position. As far as the ties thing, umm....I've been in Philly for a little while..and unless the legal market is the complete opposite of other professions, it's not secular. It's the Northeast, not the South. As long as you articulate your desire to stay here and gain summer employment you should be fine. BTW, Dangerzone, I asked you to demonstrate your support for your argument not to comment on my merits to give advice. Anyways, no need to hijack Nucky's thread. Have fun at ASW Nucky, and I'll probably see you there!

Stop arguing with people who actually know what they're talking about. The job prospects from these schools are pretty abjectly bad. Not having ties to the region will put you at a disadvantage because both Philly and NJ are fairly insular and there are a ton of locals looking for jobs. For the person who referenced state clerkships just being how things are done, that's a post-crash phenomenon as I understand it and it's just because there are so many clerks out there now that it's become a de facto requirement.