Harvard vs. Michigan (Darrow) vs. Minnesota (full) for MN Forum

[1001]

Yeah, this will get more interesting if Harvard comes through with decent aid (I'm 25, but parents are not wealthy).

I've been a scared by Michigan's employment numbers, but free + 7500 a year buys a lot of peace of mind.

[Winston1984]

I want to know the reasoning behind those that voted UMinn.

[Otunga]

Yeah, this will get more interesting if Harvard comes through with decent aid (I'm 25, but parents are not wealthy).

I've been a scared by Michigan's employment numbers, but free + 7500 a year buys a lot of peace of mind.

Those aren't standards TLS is accustomed to seeing (a person scared of Michigan's employment stats), though if you were biglaw or bust, then I'd understand the sentiment. That said, it doesn't appear you are, and that makes Michigan the clear choice if you'd be good with small law in Minnesota.

[worldtraveler]

I want to know the reasoning behind those that voted UMinn.

They have none.

[jerries]

Unless Harvard gives you A LOT of money (damn near full-ride), Michigan with Darrow is a no-brainer. Firm salaries are relatively low and compressed in Mpls, and the one consistent piece of advice I've received from dozens of Mpls attorneys from all sorts of schools/backgrounds is to keep your debt down as much as possible. Firms in the area would place a premium on either degree (I know several Michigan grads at my firm). If you truly want to work in the Twin Cities, don't throw away hundreds of thousands of dollars for a marginal bump in employability/slacker insurance. Congrats on the Darrow. I think T10 with a full-ride is the ideal outcome for this market. Jump on it.

-UMN 3L starting at one of the big TC firms this fall

Edit: obviously UMN is out of the question

[kd5]

Michigan.

Spend your 1L summer working in the Twin Cities if at all possible, keep in touch with all your legal connections in MN, and enjoy little/no debt and a decent shot at a job here. Have Michigan's alum office put you in touch with grads at firms in the Twin Cities and make your interests known early.

-Another UMN 3L starting at a big TC firm this fall

(Anyone voting UMinn hasn't looked at LST lately or is assuming that high UG GPA/LSAT will = top of the class at UMinn. It won't.)

[Come on Down]

FYI the Darrow stipend is not distributed each year but is given out once during the 1L summer. I doubt that's enough money to change the decision one way or the other but something to keep in mind.

[1001]

FYI the Darrow stipend is not distributed each year but is given out once during the 1L summer. I doubt that's enough money to change the decision one way or the other but something to keep in mind.

Aha. This is good to know. Thanks for the info.

[mtn663]

Definitely lean Mich unless substantial money at H.

M places pretty well in Chicago, so if MSP somehow doesn't happen OP could work Chi for a couple years then lateral to MSP (not sure what grades are required at M for Chi). of course, H will place fine in Chi, point being that M's pretty good there too

OP - did you apply to UChicago?

[1001]

Definitely lean Mich unless substantial money at H.

M places pretty well in Chicago, so if MSP somehow doesn't happen OP could work Chi for a couple years then lateral to MSP (not sure what grades are required at M for Chi). of course, H will place fine in Chi, point being that M's pretty good there too

OP - did you apply to UChicago?

Got into Chicago this week, awaiting financial information (obviously a Ruby would be awesome, but I'm not expecting it). If it's something like half tuition (something realistic), I don't think I'd take Chicago over the Darrow at Michigan.

[Hitchensian]

Go to Harvard and keep your lifelong career options open. MN would more or less limit you to the Twin Cities market permanently, and I have no clue on MI's placement in MN so I plead ignorance on that option.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I can't think of a poll on here with a clearer answer. Umich by a million miles.

[OfThriceandTen]

OP, just want to add to those voices saying Michigan can get you MN. I have two friends going there, both at or below median, and neither has any ties. It's anecdotal, sure, but if your ties are as good as you say they are, I would be surprised if you had trouble at median, even a bit below, from MI. I voted Darrow as well obviously.

[minnbills]

Pay money to have significantly less pressure on grades

Would rather be a Harvard grad than be median at Mich targeting mn biglaw.

You could be dead last at Harvard and still get an SA in MN. Whereas you could be first in your class at UMN and not get a job.

If you want biglaw, go to Harvard.

[Emma.]

Pay money to have significantly less pressure on grades

Would rather be a Harvard grad than be median at Mich targeting mn biglaw.

You could be dead last at Harvard and still get an SA in MN. Whereas you could be first in your class at UMN and not get a job.

If you want biglaw, go to Harvard.

What is this I don't even

[minnbills]

?

[TripTrip]

Pay money to have significantly less pressure on grades

Would rather be a Harvard grad than be median at Mich targeting mn biglaw.

You could be dead last at Harvard and still get an SA in MN. Whereas you could be first in your class at UMN and not get a job.

If you want biglaw, go to Harvard.

What is this I don't even

minnbills has a point. MN biglaw tries not to reach down past top ~20% at the U of MN.

[Emma.]

Pay money to have significantly less pressure on grades

Would rather be a Harvard grad than be median at Mich targeting mn biglaw.

You could be dead last at Harvard and still get an SA in MN. Whereas you could be first in your class at UMN and not get a job.

If you want biglaw, go to Harvard.

What is this I don't even

minnbills has a point. MN biglaw tries not to reach down past top ~20% at the U of MN.

Which is why OP should take the Darrow.

[minnbills]

Which is why OP should take the Darrow.

Michigan certainly carries weight in this market, but it's not a meal ticket. My advice would be to go to Harvard, get 1L and 2L SAs in Minnesota (which will also lessen COA) and go from there.

[TripTrip]

I would vote Harvard too, but as a Harvard 1L from Minnesota who had a full-ride to U of MN, I may be a little biased.

[northwood]

as of right now, id go Michigan. However, if Harvard offers you a substantial amount of money, then go there.

OP- how debt averse are you? ( see the Vale if you are- and ask yourself if you want to deal with the financial pressure that comes with law school debt). Do you have significiant savings/ family members with deep pockets/ guaranteed job lined up??

[jrf12886]

Harvard unless they give you zero or very little aid.

[22ndEarl]

As a long time lurker, I made an account just so I can hopefully save OP from making a potentially life destroying decision in taking Harvard over a Darrow, given his goals. Do the math OP, you're smarter than that. We are talking a potential mountain of debt (appx 400k over 10 years?!?!) from Harvard that a job in MN biglaw may even have trouble paying off.

One of these is not like the other: Employment stats for Darrow recipients and employment stats for the rest of Michigan Law student body. OP. Please. You will get a job in MN big law with minimal debt barring some quirk in your brain that causes you to completely fail in law school where you obviously have exceeded expectations up until this point in your life.

And as a cherry on top, just for the record: Michigan isn't a TTT like every 0L on this website makes it out to be. The recent employment stats you look at are from worse economic times, Michigan's student body is scewed towards public service more than other schools, Michigan places more alumni in secondary and terciary markets (like Minnesota!), leading to an apparent disparity in intial pay for graduates as compared to other schools, etc, etc. I'm not saying Michigan gives you the best chances at a NLJ250 firm as compared to its peers, but the difference between Michigan and its peers has been vastly, vastly overrated on this site in recent months by young people that are exceedingly good at obsessing over rankings and considerably less proficient at doing the simple math required to see that Michigan in circumstances like these is an absurly good bargain.

[BigZuck]

As a long time lurker, I made an account just so I can hopefully save OP from making a potentially life destroying decision in taking Harvard over a Darrow, given his goals. Do the math OP, you're smarter than that. We are talking a potential mountain of debt (appx 400k over 10 years?!?!) from Harvard that a job in MN biglaw may even have trouble paying off.

One of these is not like the other: Employment stats for Darrow recipients and employment stats for the rest of Michigan Law student body. OP. Please. You will get a job in MN big law with minimal debt barring some quirk in your brain that causes you to completely fail in law school where you obviously have exceeded expectations up until this point in your life.

And as a cherry on top, just for the record: Michigan isn't a TTT like every 0L on this website makes it out to be. The recent employment stats you look at are from worse economic times, Michigan's student body is scewed towards public service more than other schools, Michigan places more alumni in secondary and terciary markets (like Minnesota!), leading to an apparent disparity in intial pay for graduates as compared to other schools, etc, etc. I'm not saying Michigan gives you the best chances at a NLJ250 firm as compared to its peers, but the difference between Michigan and its peers has been vastly, vastly overrated on this site in recent months by young people that are exceedingly good at obsessing over rankings and considerably less proficient at doing the simple math required to see that Michigan in circumstances like these is an absurly good bargain.

As a 1L I am 100% qualified to say that Michigan's slippage over the past few years is concerning, your homerific excuses be damned.

Still, of course Michigan is a great school and taking the Darrow is a no brainer unless Harvard comes through in a big way.

Not sure why Minnesota is even in the poll, whoever chose that option is drunk and/or high.

[Tiago Splitter]

As a long time lurker, I made an account just so I can hopefully save OP from making a potentially life destroying decision in taking Harvard over a Darrow, given his goals. Do the math OP, you're smarter than that. We are talking a potential mountain of debt (appx 400k over 10 years?!?!) from Harvard that a job in MN biglaw may even have trouble paying off.

One of these is not like the other: Employment stats for Darrow recipients and employment stats for the rest of Michigan Law student body. OP. Please. You will get a job in MN big law with minimal debt barring some quirk in your brain that causes you to completely fail in law school where you obviously have exceeded expectations up until this point in your life.

And as a cherry on top, just for the record: Michigan isn't a TTT like every 0L on this website makes it out to be. The recent employment stats you look at are from worse economic times, Michigan's student body is scewed towards public service more than other schools, Michigan places more alumni in secondary and terciary markets (like Minnesota!), leading to an apparent disparity in intial pay for graduates as compared to other schools, etc, etc. I'm not saying Michigan gives you the best chances at a NLJ250 firm as compared to its peers, but the difference between Michigan and its peers has been vastly, vastly overrated on this site in recent months by young people that are exceedingly good at obsessing over rankings and considerably less proficient at doing the simple math required to see that Michigan in circumstances like these is an absurly good bargain.

lol. Weird time to bust out the inferiority complex given the overwhelming support for Michigan in this thread.