UChicago vs. Berkeley vs. Cornell Forum

[Emma.]

Lay prestige varies in Asia depending on where you want to work and I agree that lay prestige is extremely important in Asian society. For instance, if you were hoping to work in Singapore/HK (rich cities with many expats from all top schools), I think they would all be considered good (if I had to rank, it'd be 1. Berkeley 2. Cornell 3. UChicago). However, if you wanted to work somewhere like China, Berkeley definitely would be considered the best of the three. UChicago has very little lay prestige here, I don't think it has any in China.

Given that the Shanghai-based ARWU ranks UChicago as 9th in the world, above Oxford and Yale, I'm not sure this is right.

[brotherdarkness]

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[manu6926]

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[Emma.]

Lay prestige varies in Asia depending on where you want to work and I agree that lay prestige is extremely important in Asian society. For instance, if you were hoping to work in Singapore/HK (rich cities with many expats from all top schools), I think they would all be considered good (if I had to rank, it'd be 1. Berkeley 2. Cornell 3. UChicago). However, if you wanted to work somewhere like China, Berkeley definitely would be considered the best of the three. UChicago has very little lay prestige here, I don't think it has any in China.

Given that the Shanghai-based ARWU ranks UChicago as 9th in the world, above Oxford and Yale, I'm not sure this is right.

ARWU rankings are based on quantitative data, unlike QS and THES rankings which are more subjective and are likely to incorporate lay prestige.
What does the fact that UChicago has been affiliated with 89 Nobel laureates have to do with the perceptions of people on the streets in Shanghai?

QS ranks Chicago above both Cornell and Berkeley. The Times Higher Education rankings place it just behind Berkeley but far above Cornell. I agree that these rankings may not mean much as far as lay prestige, but what OP actually cares about is his/her ability to get a job. What the average person on the street thinks is irrelevant.

[jbagelboy]

Of course the rankings showcase Chicago's elite status. That is because the whole "UChicago doesn't have lay prestige" thing is basically a sheltered TLS k-jd trope repeated so many times as to make it seem brought down from the mountain.

In many prominent circles, particularly academia and economic policy but also education, finance, and of course law, University of Chicago carries ridiculous cache.

[thewaves]

Your goals/interests seem general and vague enough, and if money is *really* not an issue, then it comes down to where you would be happiest. That eliminates Chicago for you and Cornell based on its location. So you have Berkeley.

[aboutmydaylight]

You guys don't seem to understand what "lay" prestige means.

[twenty]

You guys don't seem to understand what "lay" prestige means.

--ImageRemoved--

[star fox]

You guys don't seem to understand what "lay" prestige means.

Where is this idea that Joe Sixtooth thinks Georgetown and Cornell are fantastic but doesn't think U of Chicago is any good coming from?

[aboutmydaylight]

You guys don't seem to understand what "lay" prestige means.

Where is this idea that Joe Sixtooth thinks Georgetown and Cornell are fantastic but doesn't think U of Chicago is any good coming from?

It shouldn't come from anywhere, since Joe Sixtooth likely knows nothing about those schools. Speaking from experience, growing up on the west coast, the only one of those schools that I even knew existed was Cornell, because of its reputation as an ivy, yet everyone knew it was a "lower tier" ivy and not really comparable to some of the higher ranked universities. Didn't know anything about Chicago until I took an Econ class, and I'm pretty sure I knew nothing about Georgetown until I joined this board.

[jbagelboy]

You guys don't seem to understand what "lay" prestige means.

Where is this idea that Joe Sixtooth thinks Georgetown and Cornell are fantastic but doesn't think U of Chicago is any good coming from?

It shouldn't come from anywhere, since Joe Sixtooth likely knows nothing about those schools. Speaking from experience, growing up on the west coast, the only one of those schools that I even knew existed was Cornell, because of its reputation as an ivy, yet everyone knew it was a "lower tier" ivy and not really comparable to some of the higher ranked universities. Didn't know anything about Chicago until I took an Econ class, and I'm pretty sure I knew nothing about Georgetown until I joined this board.

Two points, and I'll try to stay brief since the beaten corpse of this horse has performed circumnavigation on this board.

1) "Knowing nothing" about major American universities speaks more to personal ignorance/ignorance on the part of your community than the lack of repute of those institutions. I grew up on the west coast too. I still knew what University of Chicago and Georgetown were, and almost all my friends would too.

2) In the context of impact on international legal hiring or business recognition, "Lay" prestige doesn't mean what (presumably uninformed) teenager in the American heartland thinks. It means what potential clients think. It means what those with some influence, education, and ability to have a positive impact on your life and career think: i.e., outside the legal academy. UChicago's cache doesn't evaporate on these grounds.

[pcthenls]

Cornell.

Also, did you apply to Duke?

[star fox]

People do realize the Ivy League is a sports conference and not some code for "best colleges in the country", or am I being naive?

[Law Sauce]

I mean, what is tls supposed to tell you, Chicago is objectively the best school at same cost, Berkeley just maybe might help a little in Asian recruiting possibly, Cornell is probably the worst but also has a pipeline into NYC big law. That being said for NYC big law as the goal the rankings would be: Chicago, Cornell, and then Berkeley, but all three can get you there.

Your personal reasons for not wanting some are personal, if those are stronger for you than the employment reasons above, then that is fine, choose based on those. Not really sure how we can help you sort these out however.

[californiauser]

You guys don't seem to understand what "lay" prestige means.

Where is this idea that Joe Sixtooth thinks Georgetown and Cornell are fantastic but doesn't think U of Chicago is any good coming from?

If you brought up the University of Chicago around the average west coaster, they'd wonder why you're talking about the Chicago campus of the University of Illinois.

[twenty]

People do realize the Ivy League is a sports conference and not some code for "best colleges in the country", or am I being naive?

You're being naive.

[BVest]

People do realize the Ivy League is a sports conference and not some code for "best colleges in the country", or am I being naive?

What makes you think "a [specific] sports conference" and "best colleges in the country" are mutually exclusive.

Yes, the Ivy League is a sports conference. Its 8 members happen to all be considered among the top 25 universities in the country. Half of its members make up 80% of the top 5. Therefore it also works quite well as shorthand for the best colleges in the country. No other quickly referable grouping of universities comes even remotely close. And while it doesn't work as well when speaking about law schools, there is clearly some overlap, with each of the 5 Ivies that has a law school being part of the T14.

[ManoftheHour]

You guys don't seem to understand what "lay" prestige means.

Where is this idea that Joe Sixtooth thinks Georgetown and Cornell are fantastic but doesn't think U of Chicago is any good coming from?

It shouldn't come from anywhere, since Joe Sixtooth likely knows nothing about those schools. Speaking from experience, growing up on the west coast, the only one of those schools that I even knew existed was Cornell, because of its reputation as an ivy, yet everyone knew it was a "lower tier" ivy and not really comparable to some of the higher ranked universities. Didn't know anything about Chicago until I took an Econ class, and I'm pretty sure I knew nothing about Georgetown until I joined this board.

Grew up in the LA area. This is credited. I knew about Northwestern but I honestly didn't know anything about the University of Chicago until I started researching law school. My cousin who copped a perfect SAT applied to all the UCs, the Ivy Leagues (including Cornell) + Stanford + MIT, but didn't throw an app at U of C or Wash U (UG is very highly ranked for those that did not know). Not many people that I know in the area outside the law school/business school/med school circles know much about Chicago. My friend's friend goes to Chicago med. When she told me, I was super impressed but my friend has never heard of it (granted, getting into any American med school is impressive).

Honestly, I went to a pretty TTT high school where getting into any college was considered good so I'm not surprised we've never heard of these great schools that were located outside the west coast.

[yeslekkkk]

One more issue:[/b] Did UG in Chicago, and I would rather die than return to that place for 3 more years.

Don't go to Chicago if this is how you feel. The other schools are good enough that it's not a huge sacrifice if you really REALLY don't want to return to Chicago. Keep your mental sanity.

[manu6926]

...

[Crowing]

Right. Most laypeople wouldn't be able to name the Ivies. They just view it as a synonym for the best schools.

But this isn't a relevant inquiry anyway. It doesn't matter what street meat vendors on Wang Fu Jing or tour guides at Shou Xi Hu think. People within the legal profession are going to know what the best law schools are.

[aena]

But this isn't a relevant inquiry anyway. It doesn't matter what street meat vendors on Wang Fu Jing or tour guides at Shou Xi Hu think. People within the legal profession are going to know what the best law schools are.

You're right I don't care what street vendors think.

But I bring up lay prestige only to the extent that I care what my potential clients would think, aka people outside of legal profession. Of course, this is assuming once I do find employment.

[star fox]

You guys don't seem to understand what "lay" prestige means.

Where is this idea that Joe Sixtooth thinks Georgetown and Cornell are fantastic but doesn't think U of Chicago is any good coming from?

It shouldn't come from anywhere, since Joe Sixtooth likely knows nothing about those schools. Speaking from experience, growing up on the west coast, the only one of those schools that I even knew existed was Cornell, because of its reputation as an ivy, yet everyone knew it was a "lower tier" ivy and not really comparable to some of the higher ranked universities. Didn't know anything about Chicago until I took an Econ class, and I'm pretty sure I knew nothing about Georgetown until I joined this board.

Grew up in the LA area. This is credited. I knew about Northwestern but I honestly didn't know anything about the University of Chicago until I started researching law school. My cousin who copped a perfect SAT applied to all the UCs, the Ivy Leagues (including Cornell) + Stanford + MIT, but didn't throw an app at U of C or Wash U (UG is very highly ranked for those that did not know). Not many people that I know in the area outside the law school/business school/med school circles know much about Chicago. My friend's friend goes to Chicago med. When she told me, I was super impressed but my friend has never heard of it (granted, getting into any American med school is impressive).

Honestly, I went to a pretty TTT high school where getting into any college was considered good so I'm not surprised we've never heard of these great schools that were located outside the west coast.

From this I gather that chicago needs to get back in the Big Ten to get DAT LAY PRESTIGE.

[Connor Benz]

I can't believe Cornell is losing

[Connor Benz]

Watchell recruits at Berkeley?
That is gold. I had no idea! Thanks so much!!

EDIT: Why don't they go to Michigan or UVA?

I guess Berkeley is deemed a bit differently. For smart people that are "stuck" in California, it's either Stanford or Berkeley, and getting into Stanford is super hard. I think WLRK takes that into account.

This isn't true.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... top-public

Prestige is not really a big deal in California. Of course, there will always be those that actually care. I would say it is not as big as it is on the East Coast. They treat you like GOD if you got to an Ivy or something.