RU Newark vs Seton Hall vs Penn State Forum

[legal-eagle]

PSU. no question

first penn state advocate!! do you mind giving me your insight/reasoning for this? u could PM me if u want. i greatly appreciate it!

[rickgrimes69]

PSU. no question

first penn state advocate!! do you mind giving me your insight/reasoning for this? u could PM me if u want. i greatly appreciate it!

Disregard whatever she tells you. There is absolutely zero justification for attending PSU at that price, particularly when you want to work in Jersey and have a full ride from the state flagship.

[TheSpanishMain]

PSU. no question

first penn state advocate!! do you mind giving me your insight/reasoning for this? u could PM me if u want. i greatly appreciate it!

Disregard whatever she tells you. There is absolutely zero justification for attending PSU at that price, particularly when you want to work in Jersey and have a full ride from the state flagship.

Yeah, seriously. What conceivable reason could there be for choosing PSU over Rutgers when you want to stay in Jersey and Rutgers is free? Even if PSU were free, I'd still say Rutgers.

[Lwoods1020]

PSU. no question

first penn state advocate!! do you mind giving me your insight/reasoning for this? u could PM me if u want. i greatly appreciate it!

Disregard whatever she tells you. There is absolutely zero justification for attending PSU at that price, particularly when you want to work in Jersey and have a full ride from the state flagship.

Yeah, seriously. What conceivable reason could there be for choosing PSU over Rutgers when you want to stay in Jersey and Rutgers is free? Even if PSU were free, I'd still say Rutgers.

newark and commuting sucks.

[donewithannarbor]

Congrats my friend! I can't say enough good things about Rutgers-Newark. Work hard, get on a journal, get good grades, and soak up everything the school has to offer. The top 50% almost always gets of on the right foot post-grad, and the top 20% get some very nice opportunities. I disagree that NYC biglaw is off the table-- i know way too many people at too many of these firms to let that comment slide. That said, if you graduate without debt, money won't be an issue, and you should only go for biglaw if you want that lifestyle, or if you want to parlay it into something else like a federal clerkship, or, down the road, in-house or partner at an NJ firm.

Another thing: Newark doesn't suck. I've lived here for three years of school and continue to live here while making a good salary. I will leave soon only because my significant other works in Brooklyn. As a slight indicator of where Newark is heading, note that a newly converted residential/loft building, a corporate HQ, and a Whole Foods are all simultaneously being built one/two blocks from the law school. I attended before before these developments and still found the area pleasant enough. Where would you commute from? If from the first ring suburbs or Jersey City, fine, but if from further out, I consider that a bad lifestyle for a first year and would recommend living on campus, unless you're on a dependable train line so you can read and think while you commute.

There are two other threads, including one with my thoughts on Rutgers-Newark:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=223092
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=223665

[BVest]

As previous commenters have posted, the stips are the problem. It appears RU puts their curve at 3.0 and PSU at 3.1, so a 3.0 stip is top 50% and a 2.75 stip at PSU is about top 85%.

[legal-eagle]

Congrats my friend! I can't say enough good things about Rutgers-Newark. Work hard, get on a journal, get good grades, and soak up everything the school has to offer. The top 50% almost always gets of on the right foot post-grad, and the top 20% get some very nice opportunities. I disagree that NYC biglaw is off the table-- i know way too many people at too many of these firms to let that comment slide. That said, if you graduate without debt, money won't be an issue, and you should only go for biglaw if you want that lifestyle, or if you want to parlay it into something else like a federal clerkship, or, down the road, in-house or partner at an NJ firm.

Another thing: Newark doesn't suck. I've lived here for three years of school and continue to live here while making a good salary. I will leave soon only because my significant other works in Brooklyn. As a slight indicator of where Newark is heading, note that a newly converted residential/loft building, a corporate HQ, and a Whole Foods are all simultaneously being built one/two blocks from the law school. I attended before before these developments and still found the area pleasant enough. Where would you commute from? If from the first ring suburbs or Jersey City, fine, but if from further out, I consider that a bad lifestyle for a first year and would recommend living on campus, unless you're on a dependable train line so you can read and think while you commute.

There are two other threads, including one with my thoughts on Rutgers-Newark:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=223092
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=223665

hey thanks so much for the information! i will check those other threads out.

i would be commuting from piscataway, its about a 30-40 min drive depending on traffic but there's also a train station near me. i am going to visit the campus during my spring break to see if i may want to live on campus. i know people that go to the nursing school at RU newark and they have no problem with the area

by the way, do u know anything about the minority student program there?


again thanks for the help


Amy

[timbs4339]

Congrats my friend! I can't say enough good things about Rutgers-Newark. Work hard, get on a journal, get good grades, and soak up everything the school has to offer. The top 50% almost always gets of on the right foot post-grad, and the top 20% get some very nice opportunities. I disagree that NYC biglaw is off the table-- i know way too many people at too many of these firms to let that comment slide. That said, if you graduate without debt, money won't be an issue, and you should only go for biglaw if you want that lifestyle, or if you want to parlay it into something else like a federal clerkship, or, down the road, in-house or partner at an NJ firm.

Another thing: Newark doesn't suck. I've lived here for three years of school and continue to live here while making a good salary. I will leave soon only because my significant other works in Brooklyn. As a slight indicator of where Newark is heading, note that a newly converted residential/loft building, a corporate HQ, and a Whole Foods are all simultaneously being built one/two blocks from the law school. I attended before before these developments and still found the area pleasant enough. Where would you commute from? If from the first ring suburbs or Jersey City, fine, but if from further out, I consider that a bad lifestyle for a first year and would recommend living on campus, unless you're on a dependable train line so you can read and think while you commute.

There are two other threads, including one with my thoughts on Rutgers-Newark:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=223092
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=223665

hey thanks so much for the information! i will check those other threads out.

i would be commuting from piscataway, its about a 30-40 min drive depending on traffic but there's also a train station near me. i am going to visit the campus during my spring break to see if i may want to live on campus. i know people that go to the nursing school at RU newark and they have no problem with the area

by the way, do u know anything about the minority student program there?


again thanks for the help


Amy

Yeah, no. You are not going to get NYC biglaw from R-N. There may be five people per class who get it. This person is absolutely, 100% shilling for the school or has his head up his ass. That a bunch of boomer partners are alumni of R-N is absolutely just peachy keen, and doesn't mean anything for you, since they're going to hire 90% of their class from various T14 schools anyway.

Again, here are the employment stats: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=rutgers-newark

6.6% of the class got biglaw, .8% got a fed clerkship (that's like one person).

You're not going to just "work hard" and see the doors to Cleary and STB swing open for you.

[stillwater]

yea, not getting NYC biglaw from these schools. sorry.

[sublime]

..

[legal-eagle]

Congrats my friend! I can't say enough good things about Rutgers-Newark. Work hard, get on a journal, get good grades, and soak up everything the school has to offer. The top 50% almost always gets of on the right foot post-grad, and the top 20% get some very nice opportunities. I disagree that NYC biglaw is off the table-- i know way too many people at too many of these firms to let that comment slide. That said, if you graduate without debt, money won't be an issue, and you should only go for biglaw if you want that lifestyle, or if you want to parlay it into something else like a federal clerkship, or, down the road, in-house or partner at an NJ firm.

Another thing: Newark doesn't suck. I've lived here for three years of school and continue to live here while making a good salary. I will leave soon only because my significant other works in Brooklyn. As a slight indicator of where Newark is heading, note that a newly converted residential/loft building, a corporate HQ, and a Whole Foods are all simultaneously being built one/two blocks from the law school. I attended before before these developments and still found the area pleasant enough. Where would you commute from? If from the first ring suburbs or Jersey City, fine, but if from further out, I consider that a bad lifestyle for a first year and would recommend living on campus, unless you're on a dependable train line so you can read and think while you commute.

There are two other threads, including one with my thoughts on Rutgers-Newark:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=223092
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=223665

hey thanks so much for the information! i will check those other threads out.

i would be commuting from piscataway, its about a 30-40 min drive depending on traffic but there's also a train station near me. i am going to visit the campus during my spring break to see if i may want to live on campus. i know people that go to the nursing school at RU newark and they have no problem with the area

by the way, do u know anything about the minority student program there?


again thanks for the help


Amy

Yeah, no. You are not going to get NYC biglaw from R-N. There may be five people per class who get it. This person is absolutely, 100% shilling for the school or has his head up his ass. That a bunch of boomer partners are alumni of R-N is absolutely just peachy keen, and doesn't mean anything for you, since they're going to hire 90% of their class from various T14 schools anyway.

Again, here are the employment stats: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=rutgers-newark

6.6% of the class got biglaw, .8% got a fed clerkship (that's like one person).

You're not going to just "work hard" and see the doors to Cleary and STB swing open for you.

Luckily for me, i don't want to do biglaw lol .. I'm that "tree hugger" type. i want to help animals
also want to help humans! a government job that would allow me to make a difference is my dream. i generally want to defend those that can't defend themselves.. i realize I'm being cliche trying to save the world but corporate, patent, and those types of big bucks fields are not something I'm interested in

[Lwoods1020]

Newark objectively sucks. But I'd live there if it offered my best option. Having to show Identification to get into most buildings would get old quickly.

thank you. anyone who doesn't think newark sucks and is living in a dream world and in denial.

IDC how cheap rutgers / seton hall is for you over penn state. the facial reconstructive surgery you'll need after being mugged and beaten is gonna be $$$$$


and if you're gonna pay housing for newark, why go there? go to penn state.

I don't even see how this is an argument. You'll find a job in NJ if you go to PSU.

Maybe I'll be in your 1l class this fall.

[TheSpanishMain]

I don't even see how this is an argument. You'll find a job in NJ if you go to PSU.

What are you basing this on? Penn State grads overwhelmingly work in Pennsylvania. It doesn't have much, if any, geographic range.

[Lwoods1020]

I don't even see how this is an argument. You'll find a job in NJ if you go to PSU.

What are you basing this on? Penn State grads overwhelmingly work in Pennsylvania. It doesn't have much, if any, geographic range.

I work at a big law firm in NJ, with PSU grads here and in adversary firms. The alumni network is extensive and like a cult. I know that a few doesn't say anything definitely as a whole but it is possible.

and see post about Newark face beating.

[rwhyAn]

Newark objectively sucks. But I'd live there if it offered my best option. Having to show Identification to get into most buildings would get old quickly.

thank you. anyone who doesn't think newark sucks and is living in a dream world and in denial.

IDC how cheap rutgers / seton hall is for you over penn state. the facial reconstructive surgery you'll need after being mugged and beaten is gonna be $$$$$


and if you're gonna pay housing for newark, why go there? go to penn state.

I don't even see how this is an argument. You'll find a job in NJ if you go to PSU.

Maybe I'll be in your 1l class this fall.

OP, don't listen to LWoods. Of the three options you have listed here, RU wins by a landslide. I mean, it's not even close. Does PSU have nicer facilities, a better location, and a better ranking? Yes. But even with a $20k scholly per year, you're still looking at over $20k per year in tuition, and you have to figure between $15-20k in living expenses. Conservatively, you'd be looking at a debt of $100k, but it's more likely to be around $120k, and that's before interest. If you're looking forward to paying $1200-1500 a month in student loans, by all means take PSU.

On the other hand RU-Newark is free, and you can even live at home, which would limit living expenses. You might be able to get away with under $20k in loans for all three years to cover living expenses, and even if you never get a legal job, $20k is easily manageable.

I think a lot of K-JDs and younger kids forget to look at the most likely outcome from these schools and don't prepare for the worst case scenario, but only look at the best case scenarios. OP, I currently make $56k/year, which is better than the median outcome from these two schools, and do you know how much that amounts to after taxes and deductions per month? It's between $2900-$3000 per month. Now if you end up going to PSU and have an average outcome, you'd be looking at potentially half of your net income going to student loans, and if god forbid you were unemployed or making $30-40k, you'd never be able to pay off that debt. Choose wisely.

[stillwater]

I don't even see how this is an argument. You'll find a job in NJ if you go to PSU.

What are you basing this on? Penn State grads overwhelmingly work in Pennsylvania. It doesn't have much, if any, geographic range.

I work at a big law firm in NJ, with PSU grads here and in adversary firms. The alumni network is extensive and like a cult. I know that a few doesn't say anything definitely as a whole but it is possible.

and see post about Newark face beating.

i love me some anecdata. "its data with soul"!

how old are thse individuals? my money is on pre-2008 demise of the legal industry old.

[Lwoods1020]

i love me some anecdata. "its data with soul"!

how old are thse individuals? my money is on pre-2008 demise of the legal industry old.[/quote]

how old the attorneys? How long they've been out of law school, a better and more informative question. It's a range probably starting at 2-3 years to anywhere from 10-20.

[TheSpanishMain]

I don't doubt that it's possible to get a NJ job coming out of PSU.

However, since OP wants to live and work in NJ, PSU makes no sense.

Here are the choices: PSU for 100k for a small chance at getting a NJ job.

Rutgers for free for a pretty solid chance at getting a NJ job.

Paying 100k for less of a chance at a NJ job just because Newark sucks is retarded.

[rwhyAn]

I don't doubt that it's possible to get a NJ job coming out of PSU.

However, since OP wants to live and work in NJ, PSU makes no sense.

Here are the choices: PSU for 100k for a small chance at getting a NJ job.

Rutgers for free for a pretty solid chance at getting a NJ job.

Paying 100k for less of a chance at a NJ job just because Newark sucks is retarded.

+1,000,000.

You know, I'd like to go to University of Hawaii law school and enjoy my weekends having cocktails on Waikiki while looking at the beautiful girls in their bikinis, but the pricetag is too damn high to justify the probable outcome from a school like that. Yeah, Newark sucks (I can say this as I live in NJ) and State College is much more attractive, but it's not as attractive as not having a six-figure debt hanging over your head. If location is the issue, think of this: you'd be much more likely to die an early death from the stress resulting from the debt you incurred at PSU than from getting mugged in Newark.

[Lwoods1020]

I don't doubt that it's possible to get a NJ job coming out of PSU.

However, since OP wants to live and work in NJ, PSU makes no sense.

Here are the choices: PSU for 100k for a small chance at getting a NJ job.

Rutgers for free for a pretty solid chance at getting a NJ job.

Paying 100k for less of a chance at a NJ job just because Newark sucks is retarded.

+1,000,000.

You know, I'd like to go to University of Hawaii law school and enjoy my weekends having cocktails on Waikiki while looking at the beautiful girls in their bikinis, but the pricetag is too damn high to justify the probable outcome from a school like that. Yeah, Newark sucks (I can say this as I live in NJ) and State College is much more attractive, but it's not as attractive as not having a six-figure debt hanging over your head. If location is the issue, think of this: you'd be much more likely to die an early death from the stress resulting from the debt you incurred at PSU than from getting mugged in Newark.

well I hope you're right for OP's sake. I'm from NJ too and I couldn't be paid to commute or live in newark. I hope the best for you legaleagle or whatever your name is

[donewithannarbor]

I am happy to hear your report, Lwoods, but I just don't see any PSU alums in my circles. I just don't see it being the same impact player as Legal-Eagle's other two options, in her desired market. I am with SpanishMain and rwhyAn. Plus, Newark, no matter how scared some people here are of it, is full of state, federal and admin courthouses, law firms, large state/federal/prosecutors offices, and corporations. It's 20 minutes from Manhattan. PSU, despite its good name, cannot bring THAT much to the table, if for no other reason that geography.

So let me get this straight, Timbs, you attack me for calling out an utter misstatement ("not getting NYC biglaw from these schools") and then throw in your own factually false statement ("5 biglaw per year")? I am compelled to check this site occasionally knowing how much disparagement of non-T14 schools occurs here. Case in point. Your directive that Legal-Eagle retake the LSAT speaks for itself.

[legal-eagle]

I don't doubt that it's possible to get a NJ job coming out of PSU.

However, since OP wants to live and work in NJ, PSU makes no sense.

Here are the choices: PSU for 100k for a small chance at getting a NJ job.

Rutgers for free for a pretty solid chance at getting a NJ job.

Paying 100k for less of a chance at a NJ job just because Newark sucks is retarded.

+1,000,000.

You know, I'd like to go to University of Hawaii law school and enjoy my weekends having cocktails on Waikiki while looking at the beautiful girls in their bikinis, but the pricetag is too damn high to justify the probable outcome from a school like that. Yeah, Newark sucks (I can say this as I live in NJ) and State College is much more attractive, but it's not as attractive as not having a six-figure debt hanging over your head. If location is the issue, think of this: you'd be much more likely to die an early death from the stress resulting from the debt you incurred at PSU than from getting mugged in Newark.

well I hope you're right for OP's sake. I'm from NJ too and I couldn't be paid to commute or live in newark. I hope the best for you legaleagle or whatever your name is

my name's Amy lol and thanks so much for the input! I currently go to seton hall for undergrad in south orange.. also not the greatest area but I've never had a problem. and i think the same would go for newark as long as i stayed on campus and didn't venture out at crazy hours.

[timbs4339]

I am happy to hear your report, Lwoods, but I just don't see any PSU alums in my circles. I just don't see it being the same impact player as Legal-Eagle's other two options, in her desired market. I am with SpanishMain and rwhyAn. Plus, Newark, no matter how scared some people here are of it, is full of state, federal and admin courthouses, law firms, large state/federal/prosecutors offices, and corporations. It's 20 minutes from Manhattan. PSU, despite its good name, cannot bring THAT much to the table, if for no other reason that geography.

So let me get this straight, Timbs, you attack me for calling out an utter misstatement ("not getting NYC biglaw from these schools") and then throw in your own factually false statement ("5 biglaw per year")? I am compelled to check this site occasionally knowing how much disparagement of non-T14 schools occurs here. Case in point. Your directive that Legal-Eagle retake the LSAT speaks for itself.

I provided the relevant facts in my link to LST, which shows, again 6.6% biglaw, most of which is probably in Jersey, .8% federal clerkship. I read those linked threads, and you know exactly what you're doing. You're cherry-picking the same few people ("I know way too many people," really?) you knew at the top of your class or on law review who you remember went across the river, without mentioning the vast majority of students who will never sniff those opportunities. OPs chances of getting NYC biglaw (it doesn't appear as if she wants any biglaw, so its a moot point) is effectively zero.

In other words, you are a shill.

R-N for free is a fine choice for OP, who seems like she is just going to end up practicing law somewhere, as long as she drops out if she doesn't hit the stips. But you make it sound like it's a good choice for someone who wants to work NYC biglaw. Even on a full ride it's just not.

[LafayetteJeff]

I also say RU-Newark. It makes a ton of sense. And it's a no-brainer with it being free.

Congrats on your scholarships.