Next years T14: Who's falling, who's trending? Forum

[Br3v]

[Noodlebrain]

Also, Stanford for 3rd. :\

Where is this coming from?

[twenty]

Also, Stanford for 3rd. :\

Where is this coming from?

Speculation entirely. Harvard came out of the gate swinging with major acceptances in late November, while Stanford waited until February to start calling people. That seemed to cost them in the long run, since Stanford's ability to "pick off" H acceptances seemed to backfire on them in April, which is likely why they had applicants that hadn't heard back until May. They were pulling multiple people off the waitlist as late as September. While I would personally chose Stanford over Harvard for financial reasons, it seems the majority of double admits decided to go to the school they'd seen during ASW rather than the school that now needed them a few weeks before classes started.

[jbagelboy]

Also, Stanford for 3rd. :\

Where is this coming from?

Speculation entirely. Harvard came out of the gate swinging with major acceptances in late November, while Stanford waited until February to start calling people. That seemed to cost them in the long run, since Stanford's ability to "pick off" H acceptances seemed to backfire on them in April, which is likely why they had applicants that hadn't heard back until May. They were pulling multiple people off the waitlist as late as September. While I would personally chose Stanford over Harvard for financial reasons, it seems the majority of double admits decided to go to the school they'd seen during ASW rather than the school that now needed them a few weeks before classes started.

Stanford did increase both medians through its late game WL strategy though.

[Noodlebrain]

Stanford did increase both medians through its late game WL strategy though.

I don't know the intricacies of the ranking process, but if the only things regarding medians are the number and the change, then I figure Stanford's strategy worked. Maybe it wasn't pretty, though. Anyway, I was just curious (and perhaps a little self-serving).

[Skump]

Can't wait for Penn to tie NYU... that uncomfortable, comic moment when class boundaries are violated...

::Penn sidles up to the T6 bar, straightens gold chain across wife-beater:: <philly_accent>"Hey there, pretty lady..."</philly_accent>

NYU to Columbia: <trendy_bitch>"Oh, my god, I so did not invite him."</trendy_bitch>

Columbia: <manhattan_wasp_sneer>"Funny, I remember saying the same thing to Harvard and Chicago at a party a few years back..."</manhattan_wasp_sneer>

[Crowing]

HYSChi you heard it here first

Yeah first from you last year

[sinfiery]

I doubt Penn catches NYU. Yeah, there are a ton of PI hippies here but placing gratuitous amounts of grads consistently into biglaw/biglaw partnership (See UCHI styling all over the T14) don't increase your reputation nearly as much as making significant impacts in the realm of PI/Government work (See HYS though presidents and SC justices definitely are better than what NYU is doing)


Look no further than the ford fellowship choosing only HYS and NYU for its participating schools in PI related activities to see this isn't just limited to TLS bias but the PI bias of NYU is well known and very strongly counteracts Penn's dominating private practice numbers.
http://www.fordfoundation.org/issues/ed ... ews?id=665
Also the whole NYU grads get more prefitgious biglaw jobs

[californiauser]

I doubt Penn catches NYU. Yeah, there are a ton of PI hippies here but placing gratuitous amounts of grads consistently into biglaw/biglaw partnership (See UCHI styling all over the T14) don't increase your reputation nearly as much as making significant impacts in the realm of PI/Government work (See HYS though presidents and SC justices definitely are better than what NYU is doing)


Look no further than the ford fellowship choosing only HYS and NYU for its participating schools in PI related activities to see this isn't just limited to TLS bias but the PI bias of NYU is well known and very strongly counteracts Penn's dominating private practice numbers.
http://www.fordfoundation.org/issues/ed ... ews?id=665
Also the whole NYU grads get more prefitgious biglaw jobs

Link?

[sinfiery]

I doubt Penn catches NYU. Yeah, there are a ton of PI hippies here but placing gratuitous amounts of grads consistently into biglaw/biglaw partnership (See UCHI styling all over the T14) don't increase your reputation nearly as much as making significant impacts in the realm of PI/Government work (See HYS though presidents and SC justices definitely are better than what NYU is doing)


Look no further than the ford fellowship choosing only HYS and NYU for its participating schools in PI related activities to see this isn't just limited to TLS bias but the PI bias of NYU is well known and very strongly counteracts Penn's dominating private practice numbers.
http://www.fordfoundation.org/issues/ed ... ews?id=665
Also the whole NYU grads get more prefitgious biglaw jobs

Link?

http://faculty-gsb.stanford.edu/oyer/wp/rankings.pdf
Page 33

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... ool-1.html

http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/jle/jle622seto.pdf
page 3

http://about.bloomberglaw.com/practitio ... m-partner/


There use to be a direct link to the statistics but these all allude to it (can't find dl anymore)

Then take the raw numbers and account for class size. If historical class size is different from class sizes of today, these numbers might be wrong ofc

[2014]

HYSChi you heard it here first

Yeah first from you last year

Aren't you supposed to be on my side

[sublime]

..

[2014]

I am just disappointed that noone bit on my WUSTL to the T14 post.

Hey I'd be down so long as GULC is displaced.

[Yea All Right]

What kind of changes would be necessary in order for...

...schools to exit/enter the T-14?
...the T-14 group to be relabeled (T-13, T-15, T-16, etc.)?

[BigZuck]

What kind of changes would be necessary in order for...

...schools to exit/enter the T-14?
...the T-14 group to be relabeled (T-13, T-15, T-16, etc.)?

It really and truly does not matter. Your time would be better spent on important thoughts, such as: Boxers or briefs? Or, what should I have for dinner? Or, Michelle Rodriguez: hot or not?

FYI- Boxer-briefs, Pizza, Not

[Yea All Right]

What kind of changes would be necessary in order for...

...schools to exit/enter the T-14?
...the T-14 group to be relabeled (T-13, T-15, T-16, etc.)?

It really and truly does not matter. Your time would be better spent on important thoughts, such as: Boxers or briefs? Or, what should I have for dinner? Or, Michelle Rodriguez: hot or not?

FYI- Boxer-briefs, Pizza, Not

Boxers
My friend just asked me Chipotle or Chick-fil-A
Attractive in a spunky girl type of way

So can we go back to my questions?

[dj_roomba]

I doubt Penn catches NYU. Yeah, there are a ton of PI hippies here but placing gratuitous amounts of grads consistently into biglaw/biglaw partnership (See UCHI styling all over the T14) don't increase your reputation nearly as much as making significant impacts in the realm of PI/Government work (See HYS though presidents and SC justices definitely are better than what NYU is doing)


Look no further than the ford fellowship choosing only HYS and NYU for its participating schools in PI related activities to see this isn't just limited to TLS bias but the PI bias of NYU is well known and very strongly counteracts Penn's dominating private practice numbers.
http://www.fordfoundation.org/issues/ed ... ews?id=665
Also the whole NYU grads get more prefitgious biglaw jobs

No I agree with you. I thought Penn>NYU before I came here but I can tell it's not.

It's just that since rankings is largely based on GPA/LSAT and on what applicants want, I think that might affect it. Penn's demand last year was pretty huge, and since many are simply biglaw or bust, their reputation is getting bigger. They were overenrolled from the start and I'm sure this year they'll have a better estimate of how to deal with it (increase medians). This all speculative of course.

Also I read that the ranking method might change, and one of the factors that gives NYU a boost is disappearing. Not sure how true.

Basically I don't think Penn> NYU but I do think that many applicants think that (and that's what matters)

[jbagelboy]

What kind of changes would be necessary in order for...

...schools to exit/enter the T-14?
...the T-14 group to be relabeled (T-13, T-15, T-16, etc.)?

It really and truly does not matter. Your time would be better spent on important thoughts, such as: Boxers or briefs? Or, what should I have for dinner? Or, Michelle Rodriguez: hot or not?

FYI- Boxer-briefs, Pizza, Not

Boxers
My friend just asked me Chipotle or Chick-fil-A
Attractive in a spunky girl type of way

So can we go back to my questions?

Ranking is just a function of variables, which are assigned numbers. Who gets 14th in the rankings any given year depends on shifts in the opinions of various judges and practitioners, the admission median LSATs and GPAs reported by the school, FT/JD employment data from NALP, a spending per student quotum which may be eliminated, and a few other minor features like library size and acceptance rate.

T14 has been T14 for over thirty years. It would survive regardless of any year to year fluctuation in USNWR.

[cotiger]

What kind of changes would be necessary in order for...

...schools to exit/enter the T-14?
...the T-14 group to be relabeled (T-13, T-15, T-16, etc.)?

It really and truly does not matter. Your time would be better spent on important thoughts, such as: Boxers or briefs? Or, what should I have for dinner? Or, Michelle Rodriguez: hot or not?

FYI- Boxer-briefs, Pizza, Not

Boxers
My friend just asked me Chipotle or Chick-fil-A
Attractive in a spunky girl type of way

So can we go back to my questions?

Ranking is just a function of variables, which are assigned numbers. Who gets 14th in the rankings any given year depends on shifts in the opinions of various judges and practitioners, the admission median LSATs and GPAs reported by the school, FT/JD employment data from NALP, a spending per student quotum which may be eliminated, and a few other minor features like library size and acceptance rate.

T14 has been T14 for over thirty years. It would survive regardless of any year to year fluctuation in USNWR.

Yup. As much as I like to hate on GULC, even if the rankings strictly used employment data, it is still far and away better than Vandy or Texas and much closer to the rest of the T14 than to those two. The idea of a "T15" is so remote as to be not worth anyone's time thinking about.

[Lincoln]

Do not, for the love of god, choose a school based on (speculation about) which school will be where in the T14. Choose the school that will give you the best chance of getting the job you want in the location you want for the least amount of money. Or HYS if you get in.

Fixed

Spoken like a true 0/1/2L

[californiauser]

Yup. As much as I like to hate on GULC, even if the rankings strictly used employment data, it is still far and away better than Vandy or Texas and much closer to the rest of the T14 than to those two. The idea of a "T15" is so remote as to be not worth anyone's time thinking about.

No one seriously thinks there will be a t15 because the current t14 have all been in the top 10 at one point, it'd become the t13 if anything, which seems VERY possible if Georgetown ends up surpassed by UT or Vandy in the rankings.

[2014]

it'd become the t13 if anything

Already there imo

[cotiger]

Yup. As much as I like to hate on GULC, even if the rankings strictly used employment data, it is still far and away better than Vandy or Texas and much closer to the rest of the T14 than to those two. The idea of a "T15" is so remote as to be not worth anyone's time thinking about.

No one seriously thinks there will be a t15 because the current t14 have all been in the top 10 at one point, it'd become the t13 if anything, which seems VERY possible if Georgetown ends up surpassed by UT or Vandy in the rankings.

Already there imo

Surpassed by UT or Vandy how? Are you just talking about USNWR? The T14 aren't the T14 because they've all been in the USNWR top 10 at one point or because they've never dropped out of the top 14 since they started doing yearly rankings (those are results, not causes). They're the T14 because those are the schools with a national reach that give you far and away the best chance for an elite outcome. UT taking the USNWR 14 spot is not going to change that.

If we're talking about the typical applicant who doesn't have super specific career/locational goals, then sure, I'm down with a T13 designation. But that's because its general employment outcomes clearly lag the schools just above it, not anything to do with USNWR.

However, in general, it still makes sense to me to refer to the T14 because GULC gives its grads access to top DC-specific employment better than any school outside of YHS (or at least that's what I've read on TLS) while still giving its grads at least a 50% shot at biglaw. It's still a place to go if you want an elite employment outcome, just a more qualified and specific one.

[2014]

Yup. As much as I like to hate on GULC, even if the rankings strictly used employment data, it is still far and away better than Vandy or Texas and much closer to the rest of the T14 than to those two. The idea of a "T15" is so remote as to be not worth anyone's time thinking about.

No one seriously thinks there will be a t15 because the current t14 have all been in the top 10 at one point, it'd become the t13 if anything, which seems VERY possible if Georgetown ends up surpassed by UT or Vandy in the rankings.

Already there imo

Surpassed by UT or Vandy how? Are you just talking about USNWR? The T14 aren't the T14 because they've all been in the USNWR top 10 at one point or because they've never dropped out of the top 14 since they started doing yearly rankings (those are results, not causes). They're the T14 because those are the schools with a national reach that give you far and away the best chance for an elite outcome. UT taking the USNWR 14 spot is not going to change that.

If we're talking about the typical applicant who doesn't have super specific career/locational goals, then sure, I'm down with a T13 designation. But that's because its general employment outcomes clearly lag the schools just above it, not anything to do with USNWR.

However, in general, it still makes sense to me to refer to the T14 because GULC gives its grads access to top DC-specific employment better than any school outside of YHS (or at least that's what I've read on TLS) while still giving its grads at least a 50% shot at biglaw. It's still a place to go if you want an elite employment outcome, just a more qualified and specific one.

I said we are already at T13, which would be sans-GULC

GULC has merits but it still has like 300 grads a year in less than desirable outcomes which is egregious. If GULC were to cut down to a reasonable class size, it would serve a great niche of being the best school in the ~4th biggest legal market as well as provide those wanting government jobs a place to go. Schools ahead of and below it serve niches better, it's just kind of the elephant in the room.

[BigZuck]

Yup. As much as I like to hate on GULC, even if the rankings strictly used employment data, it is still far and away better than Vandy or Texas and much closer to the rest of the T14 than to those two. The idea of a "T15" is so remote as to be not worth anyone's time thinking about.

No one seriously thinks there will be a t15 because the current t14 have all been in the top 10 at one point, it'd become the t13 if anything, which seems VERY possible if Georgetown ends up surpassed by UT or Vandy in the rankings.

Already there imo

Surpassed by UT or Vandy how? Are you just talking about USNWR? The T14 aren't the T14 because they've all been in the USNWR top 10 at one point or because they've never dropped out of the top 14 since they started doing yearly rankings (those are results, not causes). They're the T14 because those are the schools with a national reach that give you far and away the best chance for an elite outcome. UT taking the USNWR 14 spot is not going to change that.

If we're talking about the typical applicant who doesn't have super specific career/locational goals, then sure, I'm down with a T13 designation. But that's because its general employment outcomes clearly lag the schools just above it, not anything to do with USNWR.

However, in general, it still makes sense to me to refer to the T14 because GULC gives its grads access to top DC-specific employment better than any school outside of YHS (or at least that's what I've read on TLS) while still giving its grads at least a 50% shot at biglaw. It's still a place to go if you want an elite employment outcome, just a more qualified and specific one.

Meh, if I wanted DC I would definitely choose Duke over GULC (dat Duke in DC program) and maybe UVA. Especially if those schools are cheaper, which is likely. GULC blows chunks on a lot of levels.

I have some follow up questions for you though that should really get to the heart of the matter:
Boxers or briefs?
What are you planning on having for dinner tonight?
Michelle Rodriguez: hot or not?