- Forum

[jbagelboy]

Here are a couple of charts that I've made in my free time that might prove slightly useful (I didn't make the one for 2011; that was made by someone else here on TLS):

Biglaw + AIII
Class of 2012 Employment Data
Class of 2011 Employment Data

Based on their employment statistics these past couple of years, I would put UMichigan closer to NU and GULC as far as outcomes go instead of Virginia and Berkeley.

Also, as was previously mentioned, I think that UPenn has the "highest" biglaw rate just because kids at HYSCCN are self-selecting out into other forms of employment, and not because UPenn actually has better biglaw placement power than these other schools.

Why is UMich closer to NU then VB?

Also, based on % of kids who got biglaw, would someone be better off going to Cornell or NU if they want big law in NYC/Chicago compared to some of MVD, assuming full ride at all 5 schools?

If Duke and Michigan "full ride" are the named scholarships (Mordecai ect), Id take those over Deans at Cornell or $50K at NU/UVA, both for the name recognition and the perks.

Hadn't thought about dat prestige.
Chicago just seems like it would be a better place to live then NC or Ann Arbor, and has that Chicago market tie if you previously only had ties from the north east. But anyway these are problems I'd like to have. Darrow/Mordecai just seem so much harder to obtain though than 50k at NU.

Exactly --

The acting assumption with a Darrow/Mordecai from a firms'/judges' perspective would be, "this student could probably be at Harvard or at least CC". Its harder to know with just the $ scholarship

[twenty]

That graph is incredibly useful, and I thank whoever put it together, but at NU, "business/industry" does not necessarily mean "Starbucks" or even "couldn't get biglaw." We have 1) a lot of JD-MBAs who choose MBA type jobs and 2) people with WE who leverage that with their JD to do something other than law.

Nor does "JD Advantage" at GULC mean "public affairs at Disneyland."

I think I'd probably be mad, too, if someone (seemingly?) compared my school with GULC. But the entire point of the graph is to show off the percentage of people who ended up in two very specific industries; biglaw and federal clerkships. No one's trying to say Penn >>> NYU >> Yale, but you have to admit by LST numbers alone, NU is probably closer to GULC than to UVA.

[twenty]

jbagel,

look at EIP/OCI success rate and you'll see which candidates can get their 2L SAs when they try for them (%85-90, Penn is no higher).

Where can I find these for other schools? Is there a career page or a TLS spreadsheet or something?

[IAFG]

That graph is incredibly useful, and I thank whoever put it together, but at NU, "business/industry" does not necessarily mean "Starbucks" or even "couldn't get biglaw." We have 1) a lot of JD-MBAs who choose MBA type jobs and 2) people with WE who leverage that with their JD to do something other than law.

Nor does "JD Advantage" at GULC mean "public affairs at Disneyland."

I think I'd probably be mad, too, if someone (seemingly?) compared my school with GULC. But the entire point of the graph is to show off the percentage of people who ended up in two very specific industries; biglaw and federal clerkships. No one's trying to say Penn >>> NYU >> Yale, but you have to admit by LST numbers alone, NU is probably closer to GULC than to UVA.

I'm not mad, it's just an inaccurate description. And by LST numbers alone, NU is much closer to UVA than GULC.

[IAFG]

jbagel,

look at EIP/OCI success rate and you'll see which candidates can get their 2L SAs when they try for them (%85-90, Penn is no higher).

Where can I find these for other schools? Is there a career page or a TLS spreadsheet or something?

Not all schools release that stat.

[twenty]

Ah, mk. I was hoping there was some page on NLJ that had that statistic. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding OCI mechanics, that would be a pretty solid measure of a school's worth.

[IAFG]

Ah, mk. I was hoping there was some page on NLJ that had that statistic. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding OCI mechanics, that would be a pretty solid measure of a school's worth.

It would be, unless schools started worrying about that number and discouraging marginal candidates from participating.

[20141023]

.

[soj]

It's kind of a toss up between YSH and fully scholly at CCN. Only a half scholly? YSH every time.

No, full scholly at CCN is a no-brainer. Half scholly at CCN is the toss-up.

I wrote a lengthy post on this earlier: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p6849827

[John_rizzy_rawls]

I would absolutely take a fully at CCN, or even B, over HYS.

Having said that, my family is stupid poor and I'm not personally wealthy by any means so idk what that would mean in terms of need-based aid at HYS, which could factor into my decision.

But if the choice is sticker at HYS v. full scholarship at CCN or B, I'm going with the money in an instant. Anyone who doesn't is just prestige-whoring and making a dumbass decision. Quarter-million dollars is a lot of coin.

[jbagelboy]

I would absolutely take a fully at CCN, or even B, over HYS.

Having said that, my family is stupid poor and I'm not personally wealthy by any means so idk what that would mean in terms of need-based aid at HYS, which could factor into my decision.

But if the choice is sticker at HYS v. full scholarship at CCN or B, I'm going with the money in an instant. Anyone who doesn't is just prestige-whoring and making a dumbass decision. Quarter-million dollars is a lot of coin.

I agree -- although the need based aid can be a strong mitigating factor. I have a friend who took Stanford over RTK full scholarship at NYU. A lot more debt, but not a quarter million more, since SLS offered $20K+/yr in grants. You'll probably receive something similar. It can go either way. A lot also depends on family contribution (which is effectively a grant for spoiled kids). Some hamiltons this cycle who also had substantial family wealth turned it down for HYS with the full knowledge their debt burden wouldnt be high either way

[Ti Malice]

Having said that, my family is stupid poor and I'm not personally wealthy by any means so idk what that would mean in terms of need-based aid at HYS, which could factor into my decision.

Depends on what you have in the way of savings and other financial assets (you're expected to exhaust them). If you had nothing, then you would probably be looking at >$30K per year in grant aid at YLS and HLS and possibly >$40K per year at SLS. Your assets would count against grants on a dollar-for-dollar basis.

[t-14orbust]

Having said that, my family is stupid poor and I'm not personally wealthy by any means so idk what that would mean in terms of need-based aid at HYS, which could factor into my decision.

Depends on what you have in the way of savings and other financial assets (you're expected to exhaust them). If you had nothing, then you would probably be looking at >$30K per year in grant aid at YLS and HLS and possibly >$40K per year at SLS. Your assets would count against grants on a dollar-for-dollar basis.

Now all I need to do is gain admission..

edit: I noticed that you jumped from 'financial assets' to 'assets.' Do cars count as a type of asset they account for?

[sinfiery]

I wonder if age and debt are also a factor. Though NYU isn't purely need based, others were offered more than me for what is likely need based aid and my assets=sub5k/efc=0 but with minimal debt and a young age


^^^Needaccess makes you report cars, so yeah,I believe so

[bbsg]

I know a lot of people at H (incoming 1Ls and rising 2Ls) and one person at Y who chose their school over full rides at NYU and Columbia.

Ask me again in three years how that went for everyone involved. Having been acquainted with the Hamilton and a couple of full-ride programs at NYU, though, I think someone would need to be pretty insane to take the Hamilton over some of the NYU programs.

I also know three people at NYU who took full rides over H. One regretted *slightly* and the other two are very, very happy with the choice they made.

[paglababa]

I know a lot of people at H (incoming 1Ls and rising 2Ls) and one person at Y who chose their school over full rides at NYU and Columbia.

Ask me again in three years how that went for everyone involved. Having been acquainted with the Hamilton and a couple of full-ride programs at NYU, though, I think someone would need to be pretty insane to take the Hamilton over some of the NYU programs.

I also know three people at NYU who took full rides over H. One regretted *slightly* and the other two are very, very happy with the choice they made.

Does NYU have any full schollys like Hamilton that are not specifically geared to those interested in PI, other than that 1st generation grad student scholly (Ann Bryce?).

[jbagelboy]

I know a lot of people at H (incoming 1Ls and rising 2Ls) and one person at Y who chose their school over full rides at NYU and Columbia.

Ask me again in three years how that went for everyone involved. Having been acquainted with the Hamilton and a couple of full-ride programs at NYU, though, I think someone would need to be pretty insane to take the Hamilton over some of the NYU programs.

I also know three people at NYU who took full rides over H. One regretted *slightly* and the other two are very, very happy with the choice they made.

Does NYU have any full schollys like Hamilton that are not specifically geared to those interested in PI, other than that 1st generation grad student scholly (Ann Bryce?).

Yes.

The "Vanderbilt" is a full tuition named scholarship.

Also, Furmam scholars are for academia. Not sure if this is full ride.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Whether or not you have $250k in the bank, HYS is not worth $250k more than MVPB.

[bbsg]

I know a lot of people at H (incoming 1Ls and rising 2Ls) and one person at Y who chose their school over full rides at NYU and Columbia.

Ask me again in three years how that went for everyone involved. Having been acquainted with the Hamilton and a couple of full-ride programs at NYU, though, I think someone would need to be pretty insane to take the Hamilton over some of the NYU programs.

I also know three people at NYU who took full rides over H. One regretted *slightly* and the other two are very, very happy with the choice they made.

Does NYU have any full schollys like Hamilton that are not specifically geared to those interested in PI, other than that 1st generation grad student scholly (Ann Bryce?).

NYU has a lot of full scholarships including one like the Hamilton that's just an open-ended full-ride given at admission. The more specific ones like the IILJ and AnBryce seem absolutely fantastic as far as programs go (better than the Hamilton, certainly, in my experience having been offered scholarships at both places).

I did the unpopular thing here and turned down the full rides I was offered. Mostly because the financial aid at Harvard was much more generous than I anticipated (I wouldn't have gone "at sticker" to any US school, frankly) and Harvard was great with connecting me with Harvard students and alums who had turned down full-rides at Columbia and Chicago and they all offered fairly compelling and honest-sounding advice on the issue. I did the whole "ASW, find out what feels better" thing and frankly Harvard *did* feel like a better fit to the point of going into some fairly significant debt.

If I ever regret taking Harvard, though, I won't regret taking it over most of the schools I turned down. I am 100% sure that if I regret Harvard, I'll have wish I took NYU. (By the same token, if I had gone to NYU I'd be sitting here saying "I am 100% sure that if I regret NYU, I'll have wish I took Harvard." And I wouldn't just be saying it in a prestige-whore sense, I emphasize, although the big name certainly doesn't hurt). I'll hopefully return in five years when I'm dealing with debt and let future posters know how it felt in the end, certainly.

[sinfiery]

I'll hopefully return in five years when I'm dealing with debt and let future posters know how it felt in the end, certainly.

That's when TLS is going to step to another tier as far as offering the most comprehensive advice possible for potential/current students.

[twenty]

TWIST:

HYS > Georgetown > Columbia

[t-14orbust]

TWIST:

UCI >HYS > Georgetown > Columbia

FTFY

edit: Directed by M. Night Shyamalan

[20141023]

.

[t-14orbust]

TWIST TRUTH:

UCI > Georgetown

FTFY

edit: Directed by M. Night Shyamalan

FYFY

the same to you

[GJWheeler]

if you want to work at a law firm, HYS.

if you want to do public interest, then CCNP or whatever the schools in the third option are.