Boston College or Brooklyn Law Forum

[che3055]

BLS has a great, long standing relationship with many firms in NYC (probably even better than Cardozo pending who you ask) and although nationally it took a big dip, I still think given the state of the market, taking this scholarship would obviously help me in the long run.

Not sure how to quantify a "great, longstanding relationship," but you know what other schools have "great, long standing relationships" with many firms in NYC? Columbia, NYU, Penn, Cornell, Duke, and pretty much the rest of the T14.

Did you read the link I posted? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=208084

No one is blaming you for wanting to minimize your debt by taking a scholarship. But if you retake and reapply, you've got a legitimate shot to be in the exact same position you are now (near-full scholarship)...only at a school that actually does have a "great, long standing relationship with many firms in NYC." In other words, don't settle for BLS. Your ceiling is much higher.

[Balthy]

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

[Humbert Humbert]

Out of curiosity - what did your LSAT prep consist of? (diagnostic, # of PTs, methods, etc)

[Nova]

Every splitter reading this thread has undoubtably *facepalmed*

Dont go to BC/F with a COA of 200k+ ever

Dont go to BLS ever

Retake or dont go. Attending law school this fall is extremely short sighted. Your GPA is really good and your LSAT is really bad.

[Nova]

BLS has a great, long standing relationship with many firms in NYC (probably even better than Cardozo pending who you ask) and although nationally it took a big dip, I still think given the state of the market, taking this scholarship would obviously help me in the long run.

LOL NO

•48.7% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs.
•68.7% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•66.7% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=brooklyn
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... show=chars

[blsingindisguise]

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

Incidentally, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. It's based on a single anecdote.

[Otunga]

Having said all that, is going to BC with some money not viable at all? Although not in NY, it's a better school than Fordham and I'm just happy to have been accepted given my sub-par score.

Don't settle on 'I'm just happy they're taking me!'. Settle on 'Those bastards should be begging to accept me given my GPA and LSAT score!'.

[PRgradBYU]

Retake or dont go.

+1. OP, the LSAT is absolutely a learnable test. You have a GPA that, when coupled with a great LSAT score, could make you a serious contender for HYS. Please retake.

[dstars823]

Retake or dont go.

+1. OP, the LSAT is absolutely a learnable test. You have a GPA that, when coupled with a great LSAT score, could make you a serious contender for HYS. Please retake.

seriously, dont waste that GPA, how about this ill trade you my LSAT for your GPA and ill go retake, i think we both win in this situation

[0831kf]

Everyone here already said retake. I will do it one more time.

You graduated from one of the best schools in the nation. Don't lower your standard. You should get high 160s and go to your current school for law.

[jbagelboy]

How does a wolverine dream of Hells Kitchen ? I dont understand your selection of schools. Why so many regional east coast LS? Aim higher. Test better. Or dont go.

If you listen to nothing else, hear this: Your opportunities with a 3.8+ at Michigan are superior to those coming out of BLS or Fordham. Boston College is a good school but its only reasonable at less than $100K debt. Right now you could get many great jobs paying upwards of $60K via your UG network, some with industries that are interesting with good exit options. These TTT schools do nothing for you.

[dstars823]

Everyone here already said retake. I will do it one more time.

You graduated from one of the best schools in the nation. Don't lower your standard. You should get high 160s and go to your current school for law.

THIS... seriously as much as you dont think you can retake, you really can... go be a waiter or something for a year that will probably free up enough of your schedule to study

[Balthy]

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

Incidentally, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. It's based on a single anecdote.

How is it based on a single anecdote? It seems you're mistaking the single anecdote given for what the advice is based on.

"This person, along with many of the people who transferred ”up” that year calls me distraught. No job offers, struck out at OCI, “can I help him”?"

And here's an independent argument:

"The firms at Harvard, they had 500+ students to choose from. They were trying to initially count students OUT and not IN. So, the first thing they could do to “discredit” students was to view those without a Harvard 1L record as inferior."

And more evidence that this isn't based on one anecdote:

"This was replicated over and over again for students who transferred up from Wash. U. to higher ranked schools."

[blsingindisguise]

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

Incidentally, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. It's based on a single anecdote.

How is it based on a single anecdote? It seems you're mistaking the single anecdote given for what the advice is based on.

"This person, along with many of the people who transferred ”up” that year calls me distraught. No job offers, struck out at OCI, “can I help him”?"

And here's an independent argument:

"The firms at Harvard, they had 500+ students to choose from. They were trying to initially count students OUT and not IN. So, the first thing they could do to “discredit” students was to view those without a Harvard 1L record as inferior."

And more evidence that this isn't based on one anecdote:

"This was replicated over and over again for students who transferred up from Wash. U. to higher ranked schools."

I guess I glossed over that. My own anecdotal evidence is that I watched about a dozen people I know transfer to T6's and all of them got what they wanted - biglaw, clerkships, etc. I've never actually met or met anyone who has met this proverbial transfer failure horror story that is supposed to be a thing, so I just find it a little hard to believe. The whole theory is flawed -- firms aren't looking to take a quota of students from each school, they're looking to fill slots with the best candidates. Why would transferring to a better school count against them? FWIW I also had a lot of interviewers ask me why I DIDN'T transfer.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

"I can't retake because I am a bad test taker. However, that's okay because I believe I will outperform 90% of my peers on tests at my shitty school."

I'm not surprised OP can't figure out how retarded that sounds, because anyone who could already scored higher than a 158.

The whole "give friendly advice to the TTT bound" thing should be taken out back and shot. Anyone who can find TLS knows how to Google their school's employment prospects. There exists an enormous wealth of resources that are very easily accessible for anyone truly trying to make an informed decision. The time when students went to TTTs because they legitimately never could have known how awful they were is long gone. Now all that's left is the ones who go because they're not smart enough to use the information available to come to easy logical conclusions, and are nonetheless arrogant when told otherwise. Someone who is both objectively wrong and obstinate can't be helped. Just let them learn a $250k lesson about caveat emptor, humility, and basic notions of probability.

[TheThriller]

Id kill for your GPA. Retake dude. Many of the people telling you to retake went through the same dilemma that you're going through.

If we were trying to be mean and rude to you we would tell you to go to BLS/BCLS.

[Hufflepuffer]

I used to think I was a cynical person.

Then I found TLS and discovered I'm actually an optimist.

Then again... I can't believe BLS has nearly a 30% non-employed score

[thenewguy]

"I can't retake because I am a bad test taker. However, that's okay because I believe I will outperform 90% of my peers on tests at my shitty school."

I'm not surprised OP can't figure out how retarded that sounds, because anyone who could already scored higher than a 158.

The whole "give friendly advice to the TTT bound" thing should be taken out back and shot. Anyone who can find TLS knows how to Google their school's employment prospects. There exists an enormous wealth of resources that are very easily accessible for anyone truly trying to make an informed decision. The time when students went to TTTs because they legitimately never could have known how awful they were is long gone. Now all that's left is the ones who go because they're not smart enough to use the information available to come to easy logical conclusions, and are nonetheless arrogant when told otherwise. Someone who is both objectively wrong and obstinate can't be helped. Just let them learn a $250k lesson about caveat emptor, humility, and basic notions of probability.

Not gonna lie dude, in my short time on TLS you have become my favorite poster.

In an effort to stick with the thread: retake man

[Balthy]

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

Incidentally, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. It's based on a single anecdote.

How is it based on a single anecdote? It seems you're mistaking the single anecdote given for what the advice is based on.

"This person, along with many of the people who transferred ”up” that year calls me distraught. No job offers, struck out at OCI, “can I help him”?"

And here's an independent argument:

"The firms at Harvard, they had 500+ students to choose from. They were trying to initially count students OUT and not IN. So, the first thing they could do to “discredit” students was to view those without a Harvard 1L record as inferior."

And more evidence that this isn't based on one anecdote:

"This was replicated over and over again for students who transferred up from Wash. U. to higher ranked schools."

I guess I glossed over that. My own anecdotal evidence is that I watched about a dozen people I know transfer to T6's and all of them got what they wanted - biglaw, clerkships, etc. I've never actually met or met anyone who has met this proverbial transfer failure horror story that is supposed to be a thing, so I just find it a little hard to believe. The whole theory is flawed -- firms aren't looking to take a quota of students from each school, they're looking to fill slots with the best candidates. Why would transferring to a better school count against them? FWIW I also had a lot of interviewers ask me why I DIDN'T transfer.

I'm glad your own anecdotes suggest brighter outcomes.. I would definitely like to keep transferring up as an option if I end up at a strong regional or lower t14.

[Einstein91]

Out of curiosity - what did your LSAT prep consist of? (diagnostic, # of PTs, methods, etc)

I did testmasters over last summer and frankly did not find it helping me very much - I was scoring in the mid 150s. I was fortunate enough to take some private tutoring lessons and was scoring 157-161.

[Einstein91]

I really appreciate what everyone's had to say, albeit mostly pretty harsh. Like I said, I can handle it and in fact, would prefer the brutal honesty. Having said that, it appears like the overwhelming majority suggests that I not "waste" my high GPA on a "shitty LSAT score." Instead of retaking, what about the potential for transferring up? At least then I'd save almost a full year's worth of school by doing so. Is this not a smart idea? Is it that difficult to do? I don't want to go into 1L with the mindset of transferring, but if I do well enough, I would certainly consider the idea of doing so. Thoughts?

[Stache]

I really appreciate what everyone's had to say, albeit mostly pretty harsh. Like I said, I can handle it and in fact, would prefer the brutal honesty. Having said that, it appears like the overwhelming majority suggests that I not "waste" my high GPA on a "shitty LSAT score." Instead of retaking, what about the potential for transferring up? At least then I'd save almost a full year's worth of school by doing so. Is this not a smart idea? Is it that difficult to do? I don't want to go into 1L with the mindset of transferring, but if I do well enough, I would certainly consider the idea of doing so. Thoughts?

The risk of your plan is very high. Sure, if you pull off killer grades, you have a chance to transfer up, but it is much more within your control to study for the LSAT than to try to beat out 90-95% of your classmates for the grades to give you a chance. Plus, what if you don't get those grades? You'll be stuck in this same bad situation.

[blsingindisguise]

I really appreciate what everyone's had to say, albeit mostly pretty harsh. Like I said, I can handle it and in fact, would prefer the brutal honesty. Having said that, it appears like the overwhelming majority suggests that I not "waste" my high GPA on a "shitty LSAT score." Instead of retaking, what about the potential for transferring up? At least then I'd save almost a full year's worth of school by doing so. Is this not a smart idea? Is it that difficult to do? I don't want to go into 1L with the mindset of transferring, but if I do well enough, I would certainly consider the idea of doing so. Thoughts?

No, this is not a smart idea, and it is very difficult to do. It would be easier and less risky to try to improve your LSAT score and reapply.

[PRgradBYU]

I really appreciate what everyone's had to say, albeit mostly pretty harsh. Like I said, I can handle it and in fact, would prefer the brutal honesty. Having said that, it appears like the overwhelming majority suggests that I not "waste" my high GPA on a "shitty LSAT score." Instead of retaking, what about the potential for transferring up? At least then I'd save almost a full year's worth of school by doing so. Is this not a smart idea? Is it that difficult to do? I don't want to go into 1L with the mindset of transferring, but if I do well enough, I would certainly consider the idea of doing so. Thoughts?

If you're not willing to put in the work to improve your LSAT score, what makes you think you'll be at the top of your class after 1L year? Law school grades are subjective and unpredictable, whereas your LSAT score is not. Please retake.

[rickgrimes69]

I really appreciate what everyone's had to say, albeit mostly pretty harsh. Like I said, I can handle it and in fact, would prefer the brutal honesty. Having said that, it appears like the overwhelming majority suggests that I not "waste" my high GPA on a "shitty LSAT score." Instead of retaking, what about the potential for transferring up? At least then I'd save almost a full year's worth of school by doing so. Is this not a smart idea? Is it that difficult to do? I don't want to go into 1L with the mindset of transferring, but if I do well enough, I would certainly consider the idea of doing so. Thoughts?

Scoring in the top 5-10% of your class is roughly 1000x harder and more unpredictable than getting above a 158 on the LSAT.