Columbia (small grant) vs UCLA (full ride) Forum

[jbagelboy]

Would not at all surprise me if the top couple of kids at UCLA had an easier go of it than some rando Columbian at median.* You guys are missing the worst part of what he said though

*not racist

yo zuck. come on you can do better bro ;]

I know a kid who graduated toward the very tippy top of his class at one of the UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy subset of schools who got a job at a boutique firm in Orange County that pays over market rate. I highly doubt that opportunity would have been there if he was in the middle of the pack at Columbia.

But, again, there's a bigger issue with what that poster said.

Ah, I misread you. I thought you were making the pun on a certain south american amigo with a cocaine problem. Yes, of course a top top student at UCLA could do better than a midling one at any other school (except maybe yale). That's not what I'm questioning. I thought in TLS-land we always assumed median-to-median when comparing choices... hence the rational observer would dismiss this scenario and compare students at the same level

[BigZuck]

Would not at all surprise me if the top couple of kids at UCLA had an easier go of it than some rando Columbian at median.* You guys are missing the worst part of what he said though

*not racist

yo zuck. come on you can do better bro ;]

I know a kid who graduated toward the very tippy top of his class at one of the UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy subset of schools who got a job at a boutique firm in Orange County that pays over market rate. I highly doubt that opportunity would have been there if he was in the middle of the pack at Columbia.

But, again, there's a bigger issue with what that poster said.

Ah, I misread you. I thought you were making the pun on a certain south american amigo with a cocaine problem. Yes, of course a top top student at UCLA could do better than a midling one at any other school (except maybe yale). That's not what I'm questioning. I thought in TLS-land we always assumed median-to-median when comparing choices... hence the rational observer would dismiss this scenario and compare students at the same level

Bingo

[CyanIdes Of March]

Would not at all surprise me if the top couple of kids at UCLA had an easier go of it than some rando Columbian at median.* You guys are missing the worst part of what he said though

*not racist

yo zuck. come on you can do better bro ;]

I know a kid who graduated toward the very tippy top of his class at one of the UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy subset of schools who got a job at a boutique firm in Orange County that pays over market rate. I highly doubt that opportunity would have been there if he was in the middle of the pack at Columbia.

But, again, there's a bigger issue with what that poster said.

Outliers exist and "very tippy top" isn't an easy feat even if the school is outside of the T14. Also, opportunity might have existed for Columbia middle of the packer too, it's too anecdotal to really tell.

The Columbia joke would had been funnier if he had spelled Columbia as Colombia .

[BigZuck]

Would not at all surprise me if the top couple of kids at UCLA had an easier go of it than some rando Columbian at median.* You guys are missing the worst part of what he said though

*not racist

yo zuck. come on you can do better bro ;]

I know a kid who graduated toward the very tippy top of his class at one of the UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy subset of schools who got a job at a boutique firm in Orange County that pays over market rate. I highly doubt that opportunity would have been there if he was in the middle of the pack at Columbia.

But, again, there's a bigger issue with what that poster said.

Outliers exist and "very tippy top" isn't an easy feat even if the school is outside of the T14. Also, opportunity might have existed for Columbia middle of the packer too, it's too anecdotal to really tell.

The Columbia joke would had been funnier if he had spelled Columbia as Colombia .

I doubt a Columbian rando would get a job with that firm straight out of school. Highly.

But what exactly was your point? I hope you're not suggesting that I'm doing what the other bro was suggesting. Quite the contrary, I'm saying the opposite. If the OP wants big law then Columbia is a way better choice, only a few people will be at the top of the class at UCLA and more likely than not the OP will not be one of them.

[jbagelboy]

did Dre have an aneurysm? where's the kid at? he was usually around to drop some irreverent words of wisdom in a UC vs other thread

[StillIll]

Hi friends,

Wow, I am impressed and grateful for all of the feedback, even though I've been minimally involved in the thread. It means alot, and I appreciate the passion and collaborative spirit that I can see from everyone involved within this community.


I will say that I am leaning Columbia. Absolutely nothing has changed, just a couple of days to think it out. I have to decide tomorrow. I have spoken to handfuls of persons, including friends, other non-law grad students, parents, coworkers and judges (I work in a Justice Court). Honestly, it has probably been 70/30 in favor of UCLA from them. The primary and only reason is the debt. The judge, for example, has expressed that in this uncertain legal market and economy it is simply prudent to have as minimal debt as possible. Most other persons have expressed the same sentiment.

Yet I am nonetheless, and perhaps in spite of them all, leaning in the opposite direction. Perhaps I am naive (no... make that certainly), but I have worked this hard to make it into a top school, and this is my opportunity. I feel as if Columbia, down the road, will open more doors (and diverse doors at that) than UCLA would or could. As far as the shit hours of biglaw that everyone (and I mean everyone) keeps bringing up to me forbodingly (and I mean people in my real life, not my friendly fellow TLSers), well, if I were going into accounting, or medicine, the hours would be just as rough. And, as a professional moving forward, why would I be adverse to working... isn't that the point of getting this degree??

That said, I have spoken with grad students who have shared ominous anecdotes with me. One, for example, involved a doctor who went to med school at Columbia who only recently paid off his final loan payment at the ripe age of 65. I am afraid of this debt. But, I was already willing to incur it when I thought UCLA was only giving me $90,000. While the UCLA offer has changed and become substantially more tempting, nothing has changed (in its own right) with the Columbia offer I was already willing to take and be gleeful with.

The biggest downside with Columbia is that I can't abandon law in 3 years after graduation and pursue a life as a professional musician. Just kidding. But seriously, I do appreciate the versatility and options that a full-ride from UCLA would represent. God, I may be incredibly foolish turning it down. Nonetheless, the reckoning day has arrived. I hope I have a dream that answers it all for me. God, I wish I was religious.

[jdb2013]

opportunities at columbia will be better with less pressure to place at the very top of the class.

Also, if you want big city living, NYC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>la.

finally, it seems that regardless of what the objective "right" choice is - you will go through much of your life wondering what if, regretting your choice not to go to columbia.

[jbagelboy]

I will say that I am leaning Columbia. Absolutely nothing has changed, just a couple of days to think it out. I have to decide tomorrow. I have spoken to handfuls of persons, including friends, other non-law grad students, parents, coworkers and judges (I work in a Justice Court). Honestly, it has probably been 70/30 in favor of UCLA from them. The primary and only reason is the debt. The judge, for example, has expressed that in this uncertain legal market and economy it is simply prudent to have as minimal debt as possible. Most other persons have expressed the same sentiment.

It's pretty cool that the boomer judge warned against debt. I'm impressed. I want him for my next traffic ticket.

The biggest downside with Columbia is that I can't abandon law in 3 years after graduation and pursue a life as a professional musician. Just kidding. But seriously, I do appreciate the versatility and options that a full-ride from UCLA would represent. God, I may be incredibly foolish turning it down. Nonetheless, the reckoning day has arrived. I hope I have a dream that answers it all for me. God, I wish I was religious.

Low debt may offer more versatility to pursue other careers, but the UCLA degree will offer less of a chance to practice law itself. You should only attend law school with a full commitment to practicing law, which CLS basically guarantees you. I think your debt will be serviceable and I am supportive of your decision to attend CLS . Good luck!

[StillIll]

I will say that I am leaning Columbia. Absolutely nothing has changed, just a couple of days to think it out. I have to decide tomorrow. I have spoken to handfuls of persons, including friends, other non-law grad students, parents, coworkers and judges (I work in a Justice Court). Honestly, it has probably been 70/30 in favor of UCLA from them. The primary and only reason is the debt. The judge, for example, has expressed that in this uncertain legal market and economy it is simply prudent to have as minimal debt as possible. Most other persons have expressed the same sentiment.

It's pretty cool that the boomer judge warned against debt. I'm impressed. I want him for my next traffic ticket.

The biggest downside with Columbia is that I can't abandon law in 3 years after graduation and pursue a life as a professional musician. Just kidding. But seriously, I do appreciate the versatility and options that a full-ride from UCLA would represent. God, I may be incredibly foolish turning it down. Nonetheless, the reckoning day has arrived. I hope I have a dream that answers it all for me. God, I wish I was religious.

Low debt may offer more versatility to pursue other careers, but the UCLA degree will offer less of a chance to practice law itself. You should only attend law school with a full commitment to practicing law, which CLS basically guarantees you. I think your debt will be serviceable and I am supportive of your decision to attend CLS . Good luck!

These are good points man. I appreciate it, truly. I've been listening to a lot of pro-Columbia stuff recently, so I'll be having lunch with my grandpa this afternoon who last I heard was pro-UCLA (not antagonistically, of course), and if I listen to his reasoning and etc. and come out with the same mindstate I have now than the decision is made. Welp, the decision is going to be made one way or another. Haha.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

It's pretty cool that the boomer judge warned against debt. I'm impressed. I want him for my next traffic ticket.

+1. Usually Boomers in this situation say something approximating "BUT IVY LEAGUE THO" and when you bring up debt, they'll saying something like "Oh yeah, I hear these costs are getting out of control. Apparently some of these schools are charging up to $20,000 a year! Ridiculous."

I still think this decision could reasonably go either way. Is the prospect of the CLS degree more exciting than the $250k is terrifying? Go with what you think feels right.

[jbagelboy]

It's pretty cool that the boomer judge warned against debt. I'm impressed. I want him for my next traffic ticket.

+1. Usually Boomers in this situation say something approximating "BUT IVY LEAGUE THO" and when you bring up debt, they'll saying something like "Oh yeah, I hear these costs are getting out of control. Apparently some of these schools are charging up to $20,000 a year! Ridiculous."

I still think this decision could reasonably go either way. Is the prospect of the CLS degree more exciting than the $250k is terrifying? Go with what you think feels right.

How about you Mono? when do you have to make the choice by/what are you leaning?

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

It's pretty cool that the boomer judge warned against debt. I'm impressed. I want him for my next traffic ticket.

+1. Usually Boomers in this situation say something approximating "BUT IVY LEAGUE THO" and when you bring up debt, they'll saying something like "Oh yeah, I hear these costs are getting out of control. Apparently some of these schools are charging up to $20,000 a year! Ridiculous."

I still think this decision could reasonably go either way. Is the prospect of the CLS degree more exciting than the $250k is terrifying? Go with what you think feels right.

How about you Mono? when do you have to make the choice by/what are you leaning?

Sent in the CLS deposit about an hour ago.

[jbagelboy]

It's pretty cool that the boomer judge warned against debt. I'm impressed. I want him for my next traffic ticket.

+1. Usually Boomers in this situation say something approximating "BUT IVY LEAGUE THO" and when you bring up debt, they'll saying something like "Oh yeah, I hear these costs are getting out of control. Apparently some of these schools are charging up to $20,000 a year! Ridiculous."

I still think this decision could reasonably go either way. Is the prospect of the CLS degree more exciting than the $250k is terrifying? Go with what you think feels right.

How about you Mono? when do you have to make the choice by/what are you leaning?

Sent in the CLS deposit about an hour ago.

holy sh***t dude. congrats. come join us in the CO 2016 thread if you haven't already. did they give you any $? I never saw a choosing thread on it

[StillIll]

It's pretty cool that the boomer judge warned against debt. I'm impressed. I want him for my next traffic ticket.

He's the arraignment judge at the court I work at. He's a really, really cool guy. Does a lot of stuff for the homeless population where I'm from. You would never know this at first glance (or without his shirt rolled up), but he has colorful sleeves of tattoos going up both of his arms, it's pretty awesome.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

holy sh***t dude. congrats. come join us in the CO 2016 thread if you haven't already. did they give you any $? I never saw a choosing thread on it

Nothing on the money front, just Boomer parents who are covering it all and would make sure I'd never see a dime of the COA difference. Once I told them I'd prefer CLS, all else equal, I wasn't really allowed to make much of a choice. Not that I'm complaining.

[jbagelboy]

holy sh***t dude. congrats. come join us in the CO 2016 thread if you haven't already. did they give you any $? I never saw a choosing thread on it

Nothing on the money front, just Boomer parents who are covering it all and would make sure I'd never see a dime of the COA difference. Once I told them I'd prefer CLS, all else equal, I wasn't really allowed to make much of a choice. Not that I'm complaining.

Lol nice. debt free from CLS is unbeatable. I'm gonna be ~$130K in the hole after interest ;/ my boomer parents are saving their money for divorce settlements*

j.k. but only kind of ;(

[untar614]

damn, I need to get richer parents

[jbagelboy]

damn, I need to get richer parents

+1

[StillIll]

damn, I need to get richer parents

+1

+100000000000000

[jselson]

damn, I need to get richer parents

+1

+100000000000000

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

damn, I need to get richer parents

For clarification purposes, I'd like to note that because I went through undergrad for a total COA of $50k (when my parents were prepared to cover up to $200k), there's $150k left over that went straight into the law school pot. My parents are also older (they're later in their careers, and they've had a while for their investments to grow), and my father is old enough to receive Social Security, which is also going directly in the pot. Not trying to sound butthurt, just don't want to give you the wrong idea. My family isn't cash-strapped (as I've said before, we're decidedly upper-middle class), but the ability to pay sticker is more about a set of fortuitous circumstances than the fabulous wealth of my parents.

[jbagelboy]

damn, I need to get richer parents

For clarification purposes, I'd like to note that because I went through undergrad for a total COA of $50k (when my parents were prepared to cover up to $200k), there's $150k left over that went straight into the law school pot. My parents are also older (they're later in their careers, and they've had a while for their investments to grow), and my father is old enough to receive Social Security, which is also going directly in the pot. Not trying to sound butthurt, just don't want to give you the wrong idea. My family isn't cash-strapped (as I've said before, we're decidedly upper-middle class), but the ability to pay sticker is more about a set of fortuitous circumstances than the fabulous wealth of my parents.

no problem, bro. no need to justify the awesome-ness of your situation. this isn't diversity week.

The real question is, how much are your parents giving your for housing?? can you get a $3-3.5K/month place in lionsgate? you should totally deck out one of those penthouses across the street from St Johns. I visited it during ASW, damn dude, so nice. If my parents had their shit together and could pay for my law school, ahh man. Instead I've been scrambling to get the nicest apartment for my $. Call Juliana Utley ASAP she's super friendly.

ETA: you have to invite me and my SO over if you get one of the above tho. We'll make tamarind margaritas on the balcony and shoot the shit

[StillIll]

God dammit, I am reading Biglaw horror story articles / threads, and I am psyching myself out. Are there any Biglaw glory story / threads? ... he asked, masking his seriousness with a muffled laugh

[Tekrul]

God dammit, I am reading Biglaw horror story articles / threads, and I am psyching myself out. Are there any Biglaw glory story / threads? ... he asked, masking his seriousness with a muffled laugh

You'll have to wait 10 years to hear about mine. And about 20 for the feature length motion picture film to be in theaters.

damn, I need to get richer parents

For clarification purposes, I'd like to note that because I went through undergrad for a total COA of $50k (when my parents were prepared to cover up to $200k), there's $150k left over that went straight into the law school pot. My parents are also older (they're later in their careers, and they've had a while for their investments to grow), and my father is old enough to receive Social Security, which is also going directly in the pot. Not trying to sound butthurt, just don't want to give you the wrong idea. My family isn't cash-strapped (as I've said before, we're decidedly upper-middle class), but the ability to pay sticker is more about a set of fortuitous circumstances than the fabulous wealth of my parents.

no problem, bro. no need to justify the awesome-ness of your situation. this isn't diversity week.

The real question is, how much are your parents giving your for housing?? can you get a $3-3.5K/month place in lionsgate? you should totally deck out one of those penthouses across the street from St Johns. I visited it during ASW, damn dude, so nice. If my parents had their shit together and could pay for my law school, ahh man. Instead I've been scrambling to get the nicest apartment for my $. Call Juliana Utley ASAP she's super friendly.

ETA: you have to invite me and my SO over if you get one of the above tho. We'll make tamarind margaritas on the balcony and shoot the shit

I wanna come shoot the shit

Edit: the skills I will bring into this equation since cocktails are covered. I'm an excellent cook, I can perform just about anything you've seen Vin Diesel do with 4-wheeled vehicles in any of the 6 fantastic Fast & Furious films he's done, and I'm a dead-eye shot. You may retain one of these services for free in exchange for balcony access.

Edit 2: My marksmanship skills may not be retained for crime. Neither can my driving.... nor my cooking.

[jbagelboy]

God dammit, I am reading Biglaw horror story articles / threads, and I am psyching myself out. Are there any Biglaw glory story / threads? ... he asked, masking his seriousness with a muffled laugh

Models and bottles circa 2007