NYU v Duke Forum
- twenty
- Posts: 3189
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
Duke at that price lets you gun for biglaw after your 1L grades come back, or else go for PI/something else if you so desire. NYU forces you to take advantage of LRAP because there's just no way you'll be able to pay back that kind of money even if you end up in the top 1% of your class.
When the LRAPs are virtually identical, and job placement is pretty comparable, Duke is the clear winner here.
When the LRAPs are virtually identical, and job placement is pretty comparable, Duke is the clear winner here.
- loomstate
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:07 am
Re: NYU v Duke
WTF? you can pay back NYU debt after 4-5 years of BIGLAW OPtwentypercentmore wrote:NYU forces you to take advantage of LRAP because there's just no way you'll be able to pay back that kind of money even if you end up in the top 1% of your class.
-
- Posts: 3436
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
There's too much variation in people's circumstances to say that going to NYU at sticker is "objectively" a bad decision.rickgrimes69 wrote:If the Tax Bomb gets removed (and that's a big If) that lowers the risk a lot and makes NYU at sticker less of an objectively bad decision. It's still a relatively bad decision though, when you consider how much extra you're paying per additional percentage chance at a positive outcome. Duke placed within 1% of NYU's large firm and federal clerkship placement last year. Unless someone is dead-set on P.I. work or unnecessarily concerned about dat V10 prefstige, NYU offers a very marginal advantage but costs a lot more.sinfiery wrote:How do you feel about PAYE? It seems to have the potential to dramatically lower the downside of the law school investment? And if the tax bomb is removed, is a little bit too perfect.
In any event I agree that Duke at a $100,000 discount is the smart move.
-
- Posts: 3436
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
And, yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you even know what LRAP is?twentypercentmore wrote:Duke at that price lets you gun for biglaw after your 1L grades come back, or else go for PI/something else if you so desire. NYU forces you to take advantage of LRAP because there's just no way you'll be able to pay back that kind of money even if you end up in the top 1% of your class.
When the LRAPs are virtually identical, and job placement is pretty comparable, Duke is the clear winner here.
- twenty
- Posts: 3189
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
Not really sure why this is such a earth-shattering revelation. Go do your own math -- making 5k a month payments, you barely pay off law school debt after five years. I doubt you'll find too many people (read: probably about 10% of the biglaw pool?) that makes it to year five. Oh yeah, and this is working under the foregone conclusion that there is just simply no way you won't get biglaw from NYU.
Thus, to do NYU at sticker, you basically have to gun for an LRAP-eligible job from the beginning.
Thus, to do NYU at sticker, you basically have to gun for an LRAP-eligible job from the beginning.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
It's actually 31% that make it to year 5, and the majority of those who leave do so voluntarily (See Regulus' spreadsheet for details).twentypercentmore wrote:Not really sure why this is such a earth-shattering revelation. Go do your own math -- making 5k a month payments, you barely pay off law school debt after five years. I doubt you'll find too many people (read: probably about 10% of the biglaw pool?) that makes it to year five. Oh yeah, and this is working under the foregone conclusion that there is just simply no way you won't get biglaw from NYU.
Thus, to do NYU at sticker, you basically have to gun for an LRAP-eligible job from the beginning.
And there's an entire thread devoted to paying back sticker debt on biglaw. Basically, you're wrong about having to gun for LRAP when paying sticker. You can do it on biglaw, you just can't live like a diva your first 3 years out of school. If you actually do the math, you'll see you end up with ~$45-50K after-tax after-loan take-home pay your first year, which only increases each year out.
-
- Posts: 3436
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
You're just so very wrong about how this works.twentypercentmore wrote:Not really sure why this is such a earth-shattering revelation. Go do your own math -- making 5k a month payments, you barely pay off law school debt after five years. I doubt you'll find too many people (read: probably about 10% of the biglaw pool?) that makes it to year five. Oh yeah, and this is working under the foregone conclusion that there is just simply no way you won't get biglaw from NYU.
Thus, to do NYU at sticker, you basically have to gun for an LRAP-eligible job from the beginning.
-
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:04 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
NYU isn't worth sticker price. I'd even be wary about choosing Duke with that COA, but Duke would seem to be the smarter choice here.
- twenty
- Posts: 3189
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
The only thing I'm just so very wrong on is the percentage of people that stick around in biglaw to year 5 (which is apparently 31% rather than 10%). Even if we were to assume that the majority of people leave biglaw before the five year mark because they'd already paid off their loans/burned out/won the lottery/whatever, we're still looking at a percent within a percent. There's two really big barriers that you have to overcome here: One, that you'll gun for BigLaw AND GET IT, and two, that you won't get forced out before you can pay off most of your loans.
On that thread, I've advocated paying sticker at various top schools, that certainly includes NYU.And there's an entire thread devoted to paying back sticker debt on biglaw.
-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am
Re: NYU v Duke
These 0Ls are already assuming they will get biglaw and they will be able to live on very limited income ( because, hey, plenty of people with regular jobs live in NYC on less) and they will stay in biglaw long enough to repay loans. Some of them will; some won't. But that is the current plan.twentypercentmore wrote:The only thing I'm just so very wrong on is the percentage of people that stick around in biglaw to year 5 (which is apparently 31% rather than 10%). Even if we were to assume that the majority of people leave biglaw before the five year mark because they'd already paid off their loans/burned out/won the lottery/whatever, we're still looking at a percent within a percent. There's two really big barriers that you have to overcome here: One, that you'll gun for BigLaw AND GET IT, and two, that you won't get forced out before you can pay off most of your loans.
On that thread, I've advocated paying sticker at various top schools, that certainly includes NYU.And there's an entire thread devoted to paying back sticker debt on biglaw.
As for OP: I would minimize debt. But I'm not you. If you are willing to do IBR or PAYE if you need to, go wherever you will be happier.
-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am
Re: NYU v Duke
Also, don't cash out your 401(k). Just leave that money intact for your future.
-
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 10:23 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
For the sake of argument, let's say that I would really strongly prefer PI to biglaw. Is NYU worth the extra $100k in that scenario? (It will almost certainly be 100k difference also, just to update on that front. They offered me zero and I've appealed with my Duke offer but I'm not getting my hopes up.)
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
If you are committed to finding an LRAP-eligible position, that is acceptance. However, if you have doubts and might want to do biglaw, then Duke is TCR if NYU offered zilch.thisisunexpected wrote:For the sake of argument, let's say that I would really strongly prefer PI to biglaw. Is NYU worth the extra $100k in that scenario? (It will almost certainly be 100k difference also, just to update on that front. They offered me zero and I've appealed with my Duke offer but I'm not getting my hopes up.)
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- sinfiery
- Posts: 3310
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:55 am
Re: NYU v Duke
I wish we could get someone working nyc biglaw to chime in on how much it costs as a professional to live there.
More than 31% stay in biglaw for 5 years btw as I believe that 31% figure are people who stay at 1 firm for 5 years where more than 60% who leave, leave to other large firms. Also, the amount that are presumably wanted by the firm to exit is a very very low percentage. So being forced out really doesn't seem to be common, but does occur.
More than 31% stay in biglaw for 5 years btw as I believe that 31% figure are people who stay at 1 firm for 5 years where more than 60% who leave, leave to other large firms. Also, the amount that are presumably wanted by the firm to exit is a very very low percentage. So being forced out really doesn't seem to be common, but does occur.
-
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:28 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
NYU, it's already been shown that sticker is VERY possible to pay off within 5-10 years, and then the rest of your life you have the prestige and connections NYU brings that Duke does not in the North.
Please don't base your decision off of a poll on TLS, do your own research on the advantages of NYU.
Please don't base your decision off of a poll on TLS, do your own research on the advantages of NYU.
- Doorkeeper
- Posts: 4869
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
B+ trolling.muskies970 wrote:NYU, it's already been shown that sticker is VERY possible to pay off within 5-10 years, and then the rest of your life you have the prestige and connections NYU brings that Duke does not in the North.
Please don't base your decision off of a poll on TLS, do your own research on the advantages of NYU.
-
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:28 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
Doorkeeper wrote:B+ trolling.muskies970 wrote:NYU, it's already been shown that sticker is VERY possible to pay off within 5-10 years, and then the rest of your life you have the prestige and connections NYU brings that Duke does not in the North.
Please don't base your decision off of a poll on TLS, do your own research on the advantages of NYU.
??? Did you read the sticker thread, I opened the argument there for anyone who wanted to contend that paying sticker at a T10 (let alone a T6) wasn't a good idea or feasible... but no one bit. I'm ready to do it here too if necessary.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 10:23 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
I work at a law firm now that generally hires its associates out of biglaw and pays (I'm told by them) basically the same salary. I can tell you from having spoken to many of those associates and having lived in the city as a professional myself for some years now that you can be reasonably comfortable on anything more than 40-50k/year take-home assuming you're not supporting anyone but yourself and aren't dead-set on living like a rock star. So yeah, it is absolutely possible to pay off this sort of debt in 5 years while still living fairly well, assuming that you get the right job to begin with (which is obviously not a given). My dilemma is more whether or not I want to be forced into definitely doing biglaw for 5 years, and which school makes more sense if I'm not at all certain about the biglaw v PI decision and could still end up being swayed in either direction.sinfiery wrote:I wish we could get someone working nyc biglaw to chime in on how much it costs as a professional to live there.
More than 31% stay in biglaw for 5 years btw as I believe that 31% figure are people who stay at 1 firm for 5 years where more than 60% who leave, leave to other large firms. Also, the amount that are presumably wanted by the firm to exit is a very very low percentage. So being forced out really doesn't seem to be common, but does occur.
-
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:28 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
If you do biglaw you have the money to pay off the debt, if you do PI you have LRAP to pay off the debt...thisisunexpected wrote:I work at a law firm now that generally hires its associates out of biglaw and pays (I'm told by them) basically the same salary. I can tell you from having spoken to many of those associates and having lived in the city as a professional myself for some years now that you can be reasonably comfortable on anything more than 40-50k/year take-home assuming you're not supporting anyone but yourself and aren't dead-set on living like a rock star. So yeah, it is absolutely possible to pay off this sort of debt in 5 years while still living fairly well, assuming that you get the right job to begin with. My dilemma is more whether or not I want to be forced into definitely doing biglaw for 5 years, and which school makes more sense if I'm not at all certain about the biglaw v PI decision and could still end up being swayed in either direction.sinfiery wrote:I wish we could get someone working nyc biglaw to chime in on how much it costs as a professional to live there.
More than 31% stay in biglaw for 5 years btw as I believe that 31% figure are people who stay at 1 firm for 5 years where more than 60% who leave, leave to other large firms. Also, the amount that are presumably wanted by the firm to exit is a very very low percentage. So being forced out really doesn't seem to be common, but does occur.
Either way you have the NYU prestige and connections the rest of your life and to help you get the better job in either field, i'm not seeing the argument for Duke, especially since you're north oriented.
-
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:28 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
you can start reading here http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... &start=100Doorkeeper wrote:B+ trolling.muskies970 wrote:NYU, it's already been shown that sticker is VERY possible to pay off within 5-10 years, and then the rest of your life you have the prestige and connections NYU brings that Duke does not in the North.
Please don't base your decision off of a poll on TLS, do your own research on the advantages of NYU.
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
true, true. My 31% figure was those who stay at one firm.. I forget what % leave to another large firm, but it was substantial.sinfiery wrote:I wish we could get someone working nyc biglaw to chime in on how much it costs as a professional to live there.
More than 31% stay in biglaw for 5 years btw as I believe that 31% figure are people who stay at 1 firm for 5 years where more than 60% who leave, leave to other large firms. Also, the amount that are presumably wanted by the firm to exit is a very very low percentage. So being forced out really doesn't seem to be common, but does occur.
I cannot attest to nyc biglaw, but I can attest to nyc finance/consulting.. it depends on how frugal you want to be. Stuff like whether you do weekly dry cleaning or self-pressing, cooking or take-out, adds up and really makes the difference week to week.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
why is your opinion more valid than all those who made a choice in the poll? you actually seem less well informedmuskies970 wrote:NYU, it's already been shown that sticker is VERY possible to pay off within 5-10 years, and then the rest of your life you have the prestige and connections NYU brings that Duke does not in the North.
Please don't base your decision off of a poll on TLS, do your own research on the advantages of NYU.
NYU is not a wildly prestigious institution relative to Duke. If OP is not committed to biglaw, they probably don't have V10 dreams either. It's not worth $100K, although to me it would be worth $40-50K.
-
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 10:23 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
No, I don't have my heart set on V10. In terms of things that require/generate prestige, I'm far more interested in A3 and government jobs. Of course, the latter may be easier to get when coming from V10, I'm not sure what the stats are on that if they exist.jbagelboy wrote: If OP is not committed to biglaw, they probably don't have V10 dreams either.
- willwilliams1334
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:35 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
Oh god not this again. PLEASE don't take duke for that COA. NYU has the LRAP, placement, and reputation to get you where you want. NYU its not even close; that thread on paying back sticker has really been a boost to NYU, imo.
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: NYU v Duke
They dont -- thats why the data blows and what we can truly extrapolate is limited. Its all anecdotal for clerkships after 9 months out employment.thisisunexpected wrote:No, I don't have my heart set on V10. In terms of things that require/generate prestige, I'm far more interested in A3 and government jobs. Of course, the latter may be easier to get when coming from V10, I'm not sure what the stats are on that if they exist.jbagelboy wrote: If OP is not committed to biglaw, they probably don't have V10 dreams either.
We can imagine that V10 employers would provide more influential references, as in any industry, but thats speculative. If anything, Duke boasts strongers clerkship figures and better DC numbers overall.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login