UC Davis or George Washington Forum

[Meepo]

Davis Law - 34.9% employed at graduation

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... avis-03017

GW Law- 81.7% employed at graduation (***misleading*** since this % includes lots of school-funded positions)

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... sity-03031

see the above
also davis nowadays is kind of known as a money mill, just milking students' money w/out much future prospects

[Dr. Dre]

please retake

[sunflower_sac]

Davis Law - 34.9% employed at graduation

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... avis-03017

GW Law- 81.7% employed at graduation (***misleading*** since this % includes lots of school-funded positions)

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... sity-03031

see the above
also davis nowadays is kind of known as a money mill, just milking students' money w/out much future prospects

Yeah, George Washington definitely has better employment statistics, despite having many school-funded position. Speaking of which, does anyone know what position are these? Are they just temporary positions and disappear after the employment statistics have been reported?

Can anyone else contribute? What do you think of the job market in both areas: Sacramento+SF Bay Area (if I go to Davis) vs. Washington D.C. (if I go to GW).

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. Also, please no more comments about retaking the LSAT as this is not an option for me.

[Fussell]

I am familiar with the legal markets in SF and the greater Bay Area, and I can tell you Davis gets very little respect here. Even UC Hastings is considered much better, despite it's lower rank and sub-50% employment in legitimate legal jobs.

[Golden Bear 11]

If you only took 15 practice tests before you took the actual LSAT, you shouldn't believe you performed to your highest potential. You have room to improve. RETAKING is your best option. I know that is tough to hear, but you're going to owe almost a QUARTER OF A MILLION dollars if you go to davis or GW.

[froglee]

What do you mean by international law?

[TheNextAmendment]

I was under the impression GW didn't give grants to foreign students...Hmm learn something new every day.

[sunflower_sac]

I am familiar with the legal markets in SF and the greater Bay Area, and I can tell you Davis gets very little respect here. Even UC Hastings is considered much better, despite it's lower rank and sub-50% employment in legitimate legal jobs.

- How is this possible if UC Davis's ranking is considerably higher than UC Hastings? I am very confused then about how to interpret the rankings. How do you know that UC Davis gets little respect? Could you please expand?

If you only took 15 practice tests before you took the actual LSAT, you shouldn't believe you performed to your highest potential. You have room to improve. RETAKING is your best option. I know that is tough to hear, but you're going to owe almost a QUARTER OF A MILLION dollars if you go to davis or GW.

- I studied for a year and run out of LSAT questions because I did so many practice sections outside the full practice tests.

I was under the impression GW didn't give grants to foreign students...Hmm learn something new every day.

I am not an international student anymore.

[Dr. Dre]

How do you know that UC Davis gets little respect? Could you please expand?

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=davis

[Fussell]

I am familiar with the legal markets in SF and the greater Bay Area, and I can tell you Davis gets very little respect here. Even UC Hastings is considered much better, despite it's lower rank and sub-50% employment in legitimate legal jobs.

- How is this possible if UC Davis's ranking is considerably higher than UC Hastings? I am very confused then about how to interpret the rankings. How do you know that UC Davis gets little respect? Could you please expand?

Sure. I recently lived in the area, and most professionals (incl. attorneys) don't think that Davis is a good school. However, when I tell people that I go to a T6 school, they ask if I considered Hastings and are perplexed as to why I would not choose Hastings. Which is, and sounds ridiculous, but a local friend of mine has gotten the same response from anyone older than 30. I would never advise anyone to attend Hastings at any price, and I think the school is massively overrated in the Bay Area for many reasons.

The rankings will only tell you so much, and in my opinion, not much at all outside of the Top 20 or so. For instance, even though University of Indiana is ranked above University of Washington, if you are trying to work in Seattle, people are going to be much more impressed if your JD is from Washington than if it is from Indiana. This is probably true for people on the coasts as well (definitely in SF), but that is my speculation.

When employment prospects are horrible, the rankings are essentially worthless. I personally would not attend GW for free, but 40% of Davis class graduated with no long-term, full time legal job. About 40% of people who did get LT, FT legal jobs work in firms with fewer than 25 attorneys. This is not a good outcome if you are servicing debt.

[Micdiddy]

Hastings used to be as prestigious as Berkeley (according to my lawyer who works in Sac ad went to Hastings in the 70's) so that probably where this perception comes from.

[Fussell]

Hastings used to be as prestigious as Berkeley (according to my lawyer who works in Sac ad went to Hastings in the 70's) so that probably where this perception comes from.

That's interesting and would make sense. It is very unfortunate that people advocate Hastings without having looked into the school for 30-40 years though.

[Meepo]

Hastings used to be as prestigious as Berkeley (according to my lawyer who works in Sac ad went to Hastings in the 70's) so that probably where this perception comes from.

That's interesting and would make sense. It is very unfortunate that people advocate Hastings without having looked into the school for 30-40 years though.

what made hastings so prestigious then? what made it fall?

[Dr. Dre]

Hastings used to be as prestigious as Berkeley (according to my lawyer who works in Sac ad went to Hastings in the 70's) so that probably where this perception comes from.

he went to hasting and thinks his school was as prestigious as Berk? doesn't surprise me...

also, what the hell is he doing is sac? isn't that place just filled with mcgeorge kids?

[Micdiddy]

Hastings used to be as prestigious as Berkeley (according to my lawyer who works in Sac ad went to Hastings in the 70's) so that probably where this perception comes from.

he went to hasting and thinks his school was as prestigious as Berk? doesn't surprise me...

also, what the hell is he doing is sac? isn't that place just filled with mcgeorge kids?

Idk. He's hung a shingle and seems to be doing well. He talks about how sad all those poor McGeorge kids are, graduating with so much hope then 40 of them apply to 2 open DA office spots.
No idea what happens to the other 38.

[Lasers]

Hastings used to be as prestigious as Berkeley (according to my lawyer who works in Sac ad went to Hastings in the 70's) so that probably where this perception comes from.

he went to hasting and thinks his school was as prestigious as Berk? doesn't surprise me...

also, what the hell is he doing is sac? isn't that place just filled with mcgeorge kids?

Idk. He's hung a shingle and seems to be doing well. He talks about how sad all those poor McGeorge kids are, graduating with so much hope then 40 of them apply to 2 open DA office spots.
No idea what happens to the other 38.

they get fucked.

the bottom line is davis is terrible. george washington is not good, but it isn't a known disaster; davis really doesn't provide any real prospects for gainful employment.

also, yes, hastings has an edge over davis in reputation within the bay area legal community. it was ranked in the top 20 like 20 years ago, and a lot of powerful people and good lawyers have graduated from there and done great things during the boom years. davis has never really had as much of an impact, ever. the recession has really hurt both schools, however, and neither are viable options right now.

[sunflower_sac]

Well, reading through all the responses, it seems like choosing GW is a no brainer.

Thank you for elaborating on UC Hastings in relation to how UC Davis is viewed in the Bay Area. One thing that definitely worried me about UC Davis was the drop by 18 points from the previous year's ranking. The school seems a bit unstable and unpredictable.

How do you think my degree from GW would be viewed in California if I decide to come back here after graduation?

[Micdiddy]

Well, reading through all the responses, it seems like choosing GW is a no brainer.

Thank you for elaborating on UC Hastings in relation to how UC Davis is viewed in the Bay Area. One thing that definitely worried me about UC Davis was the drop by 18 points from the previous year's ranking. The school seems a bit unstable and unpredictable.

How do you think my degree from GW would be viewed in California if I decide to come back here after graduation?

Doubt any employer will care...unless they mistake it for Georgetown.

[twenty]

Well, reading through all the responses, it seems like choosing GW is a no brainer.

Sitting the cycle out/retaking is the no brainer. Choosing GW at sticker over Davis at sticker is like choosing to be shot in the head instead of shot in the chest.

How do you think my degree from GW would be viewed in California if I decide to come back here after graduation?

Terribly. Think about it, even UCLA kids are having a hard time getting jobs in California.

For the love of God, don't go to either law school. How are you even getting loans -- you're not a citizen, are you?

[sunflower_sac]

Well, reading through all the responses, it seems like choosing GW is a no brainer.

Sitting the cycle out/retaking is the no brainer. Choosing GW at sticker over Davis at sticker is like choosing to be shot in the head instead of shot in the chest.

How do you think my degree from GW would be viewed in California if I decide to come back here after graduation?

Terribly. Think about it, even UCLA kids are having a hard time getting jobs in California.

For the love of God, don't go to either law school. How are you even getting loans -- you're not a citizen, are you?

Well, I don't think my need-based award would be any different if I follow your advice because my husband will be getting a raise, which could yield even worse results in terms of how much grant I get. I'm a green-card holder so I qualify for loans.

How about job prospects in the Washington DC area after graduating from GW?

[twenty]

Well, I don't think my need-based award would be any different if I follow your advice because my husband will be getting a raise, which could yield even worse results in terms of how much grant I get.

I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding how scholarships work. Law school scholarships are not typically based on need, they're based on merit. Merit is determined by your GPA and your LSAT score. Thus, by increasing your score, you get more money. Your husband getting a raise is entirely irrelevant.

How about job prospects in the Washington DC area after graduating from GW?

Better than they would be to try to break into California, but still pretty bad. DC is targeted by top students at T14s and HYS kids -- even GULC grads have a tough time making it in DC. Maybe top echelons of GW get DC, but I wouldn't count on more than 15% getting DC biglaw.

[sunflower_sac]

Well, I don't think my need-based award would be any different if I follow your advice because my husband will be getting a raise, which could yield even worse results in terms of how much grant I get.

I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding how scholarships work. Law school scholarships are not typically based on need, they're based on merit. Merit is determined by your GPA and your LSAT score. Thus, by increasing your score, you get more money. Your husband getting a raise is entirely irrelevant.

How about job prospects in the Washington DC area after graduating from GW?

Better than they would be to try to break into California, but still pretty bad. DC is targeted by top students at T14s and HYS kids -- even GULC grads have a tough time making it in DC. Maybe top echelons of GW get DC, but I wouldn't count on more than 15% getting DC biglaw.

I am not getting any merit-based scholarships, so I am just assuming that this could be a case even if I increase my LSAT score, which I do not think would happen because I studied for the LSAT for a year!

Would my job prospects be better in CA if I graduated from UC Davis or better in DC if I graduated from GW?

[twenty]

I am not getting any merit-based scholarships, so I am just assuming that this could be a case even if I increase my LSAT score, which I do not think would happen because I studied for the LSAT for a year!

Okay, but taking out 150k+ of non-dischargable loans to go to a school where you have less than a coin-flip's chance of getting a job that will give you the ability to pay off said loans is not the answer here. Especially if you're married.

Would my job prospects be better in CA if I graduated from UC Davis or better in DC if I graduated from GW?

If you graduate in the bottom half of your class, equal. (i.e, zero) If you graduate in the top quarter, GW is better than Davis assuming your ties to Sacramento aren't especially strong.

[sunflower_sac]

Thanks for your input. Anyone else?

[Dr. Dre]

Either retake the LSAT or don't go to law school. Neither school is worth close to a quarter million in debt, unless you plan to run back to Europe and your home country is one with which the United States has no extradition treaty.