UCLA (5k) vs. USC (20k) vs. Cornell (sticker) Forum

[epgenius]

Ahhh the ole' cover ears LALALALALA I'M A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE, please internet tell me what I want to hear, classic.

Mature. If you're going to answer the only question I asked, please do. Otherwise...

[timbs4339]

I can't afford to retake the LSAT, I can't afford to waste more time not going to law school.

You can't afford that yet you can afford to take 6 figures out in debt? lol.

I don't have the time to wait another year, to work for nothing for another year, to try to scrape by while paying off the debt I've already accumulated from my undergrad years. I can't afford to put in the time to studying for the LSAT that I had to put in, I can't afford the stress of another cycle, I can't afford the emotional stress it has put on me, my family and my loved ones. I'd rather see how I do and try to transfer.

If the emotional stress of the LSAT and undergrad loans are too much for you then I can't imagine how you'd handle the stress of actual law school exams and actual law school debt.

Regardless, having no idea my current situation, just assume that to wait would be too stressful. For future reference, can we just assume that going through it all again and retaking is not an option for me. In light of that fact, can we answer my first and only question regarding the schools in question?

I, for one, am wondering exactly why waiting is so stressful for you. It's hard to imagine such a circumstance unless you have some crazy Brewster's Millions type of scenario where you have to go to law school within one year to get $300 million.

TLS is give and take. If you could articulate a legitimate reason for why you have to go this fall people would probably answer your question.

[Golden Bear 11]

Cornell at sticker is $277,213 debt at repayment (most likely higher with tuition increases).

[eric922]

Cornell at sticker is $277,213 debt at repayment (most likely higher with tuition increases).

That number makes me eyes bleed. I can't imagine taking that much debt and to be frankly honest I find it disgusting that these schools are able to justify charging that much.

[Golden Bear 11]

sorry, $277,213 accounts for tuition increases already.

[timbs4339]

Cornell at sticker is $277,213 debt at repayment (most likely higher with tuition increases).

That number makes me eyes bleed. I can't imagine taking that much debt and to be frankly honest I find it disgusting that these schools are able to justify charging that much.

Increasingly, even the T10 can't.

[shifty_eyed]

Let's just assume that retaking is not an option. I asked for a comparison between the schools in question, not whether or not I should retake the LSAT and wait.

--ImageRemoved--

[epgenius]

Cornell at sticker is $277,213 debt at repayment (most likely higher with tuition increases).

Damn... I was way off!

[hephaestus]

Its always justified by inflation or whatever, but its totally egregious. Federal loans allow the price to be utterly disconnected with reality.

[ManoftheHour]

What is total debt at time of graduation. Includ cost if living and interest.

Sorry, I'd be looking at:

UCLA = 186k

USC = 165k

Cornell = 225k

What do these numbers account for in terms of interest (payment plan of 10 years)?

[hephaestus]

What is total debt at time of graduation. Includ cost if living and interest.

Sorry, I'd be looking at:

UCLA = 186k

USC = 165k

Cornell = 225k

What do these numbers account for in terms of interest (payment plan of 10 years)?

10 year, but as OP said, numbers were off (Cornell is more like 275k).

[untar614]

You said your family lives in LA, but you wouldn't live with them if you went to USC or UCLA. Why not? It would be a great idea to do so and save the debt of rent (especially in LA where rent is insane) if you could do so. If only 1 of them is within reasonable distance from where your family lives, try to negotiate the best you can from that one using the other as leverage.

[epgenius]

You said your family lives in LA, but you wouldn't live with them if you went to USC or UCLA. Why not? It would be a great idea to do so and save the debt of rent (especially in LA where rent is insane) if you could do so. If only 1 of them is within reasonable distance from where your family lives, try to negotiate the best you can from that one using the other as leverage.

They're both manageable if I lived at home. There is for sure a distinct possibility that I could live at home, however there is a huge problem (emotionally and in terms of sanity) with living at home, namely the ability to escape home. I went away for undergrad, have been living at home for the last year and am dying as a result. I love my family to death, but my mom has empty nest syndrome to such an obscene degree it's extremely hard to contend with... my eldest sister (who's a lawyer) lives 2 blocks away and my other, older sister didn't move out until she was 26; and only because she had to move to the UK to marry her, now, husband. In addition, I think it would severely hurt my studies if I was at home due to the attention required by my family -- my grades soared in college as opposed to high school, largely for that reason, in spite of the social necessities of college. I was able to get time to study on my own and I need that to succeed in law school. There is always the chance, as well, that I could find a nicer place with local friends or work out some sort of an arrangement with that -- I know people all around the westside and, to a lesser extent, closer to SC. Money is a big concern with me but I know other factors apply and, to a degree, especially while I'm in school, will matter more than money concerns.

[cinnamonchurros]

Ahhh the ole' cover ears LALALALALA I'M A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE, please internet tell me what I want to hear, classic.

Mature. If you're going to answer the only question I asked, please do. Otherwise...

While I don't always agree with the constant "retake" argument, I really do understand where it comes from. People here are just trying to help. If you don't want to hear "retake" (and didn't get into HYS), you may be in the wrong place.

If you're certain about not retaking (and it seems like you are), I would suggest choosing Cornell. It gives you the best chance at Biglaw and a decent-ish LRAP (PILIPP) if you choose PI.

[hephaestus]

Ahhh the ole' cover ears LALALALALA I'M A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE, please internet tell me what I want to hear, classic.

Mature. If you're going to answer the only question I asked, please do. Otherwise...

While I don't always agree with the constant "retake" argument, I really do understand where it comes from. People here are just trying to help. If you don't want to hear "retake" (and didn't get into HYS), you may be in the wrong place.

If you're certain about not retaking (and it seems like you are), I would suggest choosing Cornell. It gives you the best chance at Biglaw and a decent-ish LRAP (PILIPP) if you choose PI.

Yes I think if OP had to pick, it would be cornell. But why leave money on the table?

[Doorkeeper]

Absolutely none of these law schools is worth the investment given your low scholarships and their less than perfect placement scores. Even with Cornell you're wagering $277k on a 75% chance of having ANY legal job.

The correct answer is to work for a year, save up money, retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle. Any other answer is financially unsound.

[hephaestus]

Absolutely none of these law schools is worth the investment given your low scholarships and their less than perfect placement scores. Even with Cornell you're wagering $277k on a 75% chance of having ANY legal job.

The correct answer is to work for a year, save up money, retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle. Any other answer is financially unsound.

I think this is on target. OP, you may think you have a useless lib arts degree. But you can find something to do. Many major firms hire paralegals (obviously all firms do, big big firms seem like they're always hiring because of incredible turnover). Or, do something totally different. Sales jobs/political aids are also jobs with no barriers to entry and no long term commitment required.

[justonemoregame]

why don't you just gun for a PSLF-qualifying job now; you'll be three years ahead of the game.

[ket310]

If I were you, I would choose USC and live with parents to save Cost of living.

Unless you are quite rich that you don't really have to worry about money, that's the best bet from what I can see. If you borrow over 200K to go to Cornell, and if you're at the top 35%, and get into big law, still pretty good. You probably can payoff the loan in few years. If you are not at the top 35%, you probably still can get a job but not at 160K/yr, but only at like 60~120K/yr depending on what you get. It might be even lower. If your salary is lower than $70K/yr, you might pay the loan for a long long time of your life, which I never would like to.

I'm 0L, my goal is to graduate either T30 with debt under $50K or T14 $80K or T6 $100K. I'm currently in service so my goal is pretty legitimate, as long as I get admission. Otherwise, I'm not going to law school because I don't want to risk being on debt for a very very long time. It's just me.

[js25]

OP, if you've been on TLS for a while, you'll know that the posters are just trying to help you with risk-averse conventional (what you call elitist) TLS wisdom.

But if I were you and retaking wasn't an option, I'd pick USC. Especially because you have family in the area. Then again, I might be biased bc I think LA>Ithaca.

[thatgumyoulike]

What is total debt at time of graduation. Includ cost if living and interest.

Sorry, I'd be looking at:

UCLA = 186k

USC = 165k

Cornell = 225k

What do these numbers account for in terms of interest (payment plan of 10 years)?

10 year, but as OP said, numbers were off (Cornell is more like 275k).

UCLA and USC numbers are off, too. Don't think they are accounting for interest. OP, did you use the Georgetown Financial Planner? Here's a link:

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... eid=112745