Class of 2012 Employment Data Forum

[Tiago Splitter]

I am debating whether to even include that ridiculously unsustainable UCI number. And I'm saying this as someone with a deep attachment to UCI.

[Dmini7]

I am debating whether to even include that ridiculously unsustainable UCI number. And I'm saying this as someone with a deep attachment to UCI.

Haha, I completely agree with you. If nothing else, it brings about an interesting topic to discuss even though it is something that has been discussed plenty of times before. Except now there are numbers for both sides to argue with

[Revolver066]

Anybody up to do a Rayiner Un-employment thread type analysis? (50+firms, Fed clerkship, PI/Govt Long term full time jobs, 1/2 business jobs) http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=181723

[longlivetheking]

can anyone do a big picture summary? hiring improving/staying same/shittier?

[SportsFan]

Penn's numbers are up.

https://www.law.upenn.edu/careers/emplo ... istics.php

https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/18 ... statistics

60.37% in firms of 251+, 10.37% A3 clerkships. 70.74% total. 77.04% if you do firms of 101+.


(someone please correct me if I did the math wrong)

Edit: And just to give some other numbers so people don't have to click, 12 in business/industry (probably good outcomes because of the JD/MBA), 6 in government, and 10 in PI. 258/270 in bar passage required jobs.

Edit 2: 9 people in law school funded jobs (8 long term, 1 short term). 3.33%.

[longlivetheking]

wow penn killed it.

[BerkeleyBear]

wow penn killed it.

[Bronck]

Very nice numbers from Penn. Interested to see how Chi and CLS perform now.

[longlivetheking]

anyone know what happened with nyu?

[Bronck]

Following rayiner's lead from last year, here is the under/unemployed chart:



I'll update both as new numbers for the T-14 come in

[BerkeleyBear]

Thanks Bronk. Good stuff.

[SportsFan]

Just looking at Penn's numbers a little more (since its more interesting than outlining ), its interesting they seem to have changed their law school funded jobs program. In 2010 and 2011, most of these jobs were short term, but now in 2012, they're all long term. I guess thats because of the ABA's change in how they count these jobs, or whatever? Still, only 9 people in these jobs in 2012, as opposed to 11 in 2011 and 13 in 2010.

[table3]

What does N/2 denote?

[Bronck]

What does N/2 denote?

Number of jobs divided by 2.

[SportsFan]

What does N/2 denote?

Number of jobs divided by 2.

And just to clarify for him, its because theres no easy way of telling whether these business jobs are any good (more likely in schools with good JB/MBA programs) or are just doc review, so just assuming half of them are unfavorable outcomes is the best way to account for this.

[table3]

What does N/2 denote?

Number of jobs divided by 2.

And just to clarify for him, its because theres no one of telling whether these business jobs are any good (more likely in schools with good JB/MBA programs) or are just doc review, so just assuming half of them are unfavorable outcomes is the best way to account for this.

Gotcha, thanks.

[pedestrian]

I'm curious about the rationale for counting academic jobs as underemployed.

[Revolver066]

Thanks Bronk. Good stuff.

Sweeet.

[bowser]

I'm curious about the rationale for counting academic jobs as underemployed.

Everything goes in that category which sounds "suspicious." It seems like most schools have a reasonable number in that category (~1% or less), but a few have way too many Academic jobs than you would realistically think the school could get into tenure-track positions.

Halving the Business number and counting all PI jobs as good outcomes is not perfect, either, but it's a reasonable approximation based on very little information.

[pedestrian]

I'm curious about the rationale for counting academic jobs as underemployed.

Everything goes in that category which sounds "suspicious." It seems like most schools have a reasonable number in that category (~1% or less), but a few have way too many Academic jobs than you would realistically think the school could get into tenure-track positions.

Halving the Business number and counting all PI jobs as good outcomes is not perfect, either, but it's a reasonable approximation based on very little information.

Ok, thank you! Poking around in the linked thread it seems to be related to the "school-funded" debate.

[Revolver066]

Edit: And just to give some other numbers so people don't have to click, 12 in business/industry (probably good outcomes because of the JD/MBA), 6 in government, and 10 in PI. 258/270 in bar passage required jobs.

Edit 2: 9 people in law school funded jobs (8 long term, 1 short term). 3.33%.

Yea I never really knew what to make of the business type jobs in the T14 (esp ones with good JD/MBA programs). Looking at the website, with 11/12 reporting, the 25/50/75 for their salaries are 100k/130k/140k (~145k mean. Not too shabby)

ETA: looks like the 12th person is probably in the Full time Short term employment category
ETA2: looks like 1 govt and 1 PI are long term part time.

[togepi]

tag

[spondee]

Penn's numbers are up.

https://www.law.upenn.edu/careers/emplo ... istics.php

https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/18 ... statistics

60.37% in firms of 251+, 10.37% A3 clerkships. 70.74% total. 77.04% if you do firms of 101+.


(someone please correct me if I did the math wrong)

Edit: And just to give some other numbers so people don't have to click, 12 in business/industry (probably good outcomes because of the JD/MBA), 6 in government, and 10 in PI. 258/270 in bar passage required jobs.

Edit 2: 9 people in law school funded jobs (8 long term, 1 short term). 3.33%.

2012 graduating class: 270
Employed: 265
Total for 2012 job type chart: 275

Penn's double counting somewhere.

[Myself]

.

[Elston Gunn]

These numbers are worse than I thought.

I'm not law school advocate, but why don't you think the UCI figures are sustainable? Is there something about full tuition scholarships that boost students' employment numbers?

It's the tiny class size + incentive of the faculty to do everything possible to help out their first class.

Put it this way, do you think UCI is going to continue to nearly double Harvard's AIII clerk placement on a percentage basis?