Before You Post Forum

[miller7353]

I apologize for my ignorance. Sincerely. That's kind of why I'm on this site, because I have no idea what I'm doing and need some guidance. I don't want to make a stupid mistake choosing a school and paying too much for nothing, but I also want a place that's going to give me what I want. Do you have any constructive suggestions?

For that kind of work? Go to Yale or Harvard or Sanford after working for a few years in the field before law school. Not joking.

Ah. That's what I thought, but didn't really want to hear. What do you (or anyone else) think about transferring? If I were to take my first year at one of these schools and then transfer to a T14 school?

I have to start school now for several reasons and I'm looking for my best option from what I have....

[Nova]

9 times out of 10 you wont make the grades to transfer.

To transfer into the T14 you need:
-top 10-15% at T1, top 5-10% for CCN
-top 5-10% at a T2, top 5% for CCN
-top 1-2% at a T3/T4
-Other notes: Depending on how far up you want to transfer, you may even succeed if you are ranked top 20-30%. For example, if you are transferring up like 10-15 spots, top 20-30% maybe enough (like a lateral transfer). Also, people in the T3/T4 generally only have a shot at transfer friendly schools in the T14.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 27&t=82937

[cooldude87]

your not gonna transfer

[dr123]

brb, going to Cooley on a full-ride

[romothesavior]

You need to be realistic about 1) your likely grade prospects, 2) your job prospects from these schools, and 3) your debt situation. Brooklyn would be well over 100k for the degree and is out. Rutgers and SH sound financially feasible if you can commute.

So on to grade prospects. Law school is a collection of similarly intelligent and hard working people, so odds are if you work hard and are reasonably smart, you'll end up median or just above it. You cannot assume you'll do well and should therefore plan for the average outcome, and be prepared for the worst. Going to law school planning to transfer is a terrible idea.

What are the average students doing at these schools? Not much. Go check out Law School Transparency and you'll see that neither one is great if your goal is to practice law in any prestigious or high paying field. There's a pretty decent chance you won't even get a lawyer job. And international/human rights law? LOL. You could be number one in your class and it wouldn't happen. Those are the most competitive jobs on the planet. I go to a T20 that "specializes" in international law with a big human rights focus, and I don't know a single native American going to a job overseas after graduation. It ain't gonna happen.

So retake, or live at home an do Rutgers while gunning for a 40-50k job in Jersey.

[cinnamonchurros]

If you have a full ride to a school that places more than 50% of its grads in Bar Passage Required jobs, go ahead

If you're paying sticker and the school is called Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, go ahead

If you have more than 50% of the cost covered though scholarships and the school is a T14, go ahead

If its anything else, don't go

This is way too general. It covers a lot of situations, but definitely not all.

[Varys]

Wait, I got a full ride scholarship to Devry School of Law & Cooking. You're telling me I should turn down this once in a lifetime opportunity?

I say thee nay!

[Robespierre]

If you have a full ride to a school that places more than 50% of its grads in Bar Passage Required jobs, go ahead

If you're paying sticker and the school is called Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, go ahead

If you have more than 50% of the cost covered though scholarships and the school is a T14, go ahead

If its anything else, don't go

So don't go to Columbia with 40% of the cost covered through scholarship? Disagree.

If Fordham gives you a 20K/yr scholly and you can commute from your parents' place, don't go? Disagree.

Don't go to U of Montana if you want to work in Montana and qualify for the in-state tuition? Disagree.

The post is too general. People have all sorts of situations.

[iteachtenthgrade]

If you have a full ride to a school that places more than 50% of its grads in Bar Passage Required jobs, go ahead

If you're paying sticker and the school is called Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, go ahead

If you have more than 50% of the cost covered though scholarships and the school is a T14, go ahead

If its anything else, don't go

So don't go to Columbia with 40% of the cost covered through scholarship? Disagree.

If Fordham gives you a 20K/yr scholly and you can commute from your parents' place, don't go? Disagree.

Don't go to U of Montana if you want to work in Montana and qualify for the in-state tuition? Disagree.

The post is too general. People have all sorts of situations.

Though I agree to a certain extent, I like the OP's sentiment - it was intended to be a rule of thumb.

[whereskyle]

there is no reason to NOT retake a 161.

Don't waste that 3.95 gpa - retake.

yup, retaking a 170+ carries an actual risk. Just study logic games for the next two months and retake.

[eav1277]

The thread started off promising. Good advice

[dixiecupdrinking]

If you have a full ride to a school that places more than 50% of its grads in Bar Passage Required jobs, go ahead

If you're paying sticker and the school is called Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, go ahead

If you have more than 50% of the cost covered though scholarships and the school is a T14, go ahead

If its anything else, don't go

This is way too general. It covers a lot of situations, but definitely not all.

I think the only real problem is that T10 schools are worth it at a lot less than 50% scholarship, depending on the person. Otherwise, probably accurate.

[rickgrimes69]

I apologize for my ignorance. Sincerely. That's kind of why I'm on this site, because I have no idea what I'm doing and need some guidance. I don't want to make a stupid mistake choosing a school and paying too much for nothing, but I also want a place that's going to give me what I want. Do you have any constructive suggestions?

For that kind of work? Go to Yale or Harvard or Sanford after working for a few years in the field before law school. Not joking.

Ah. That's what I thought, but didn't really want to hear. What do you (or anyone else) think about transferring? If I were to take my first year at one of these schools and then transfer to a T14 school?

I have to start school now for several reasons and I'm looking for my best option from what I have....

I thought you were legit at first but nope definitely a flame

[romothesavior]

I see what cooldude is trying to do but I don't really think this checklist is very helpful. There are just too many variables at play to break it down into something so simple, and I really don't think all non-T14s are full ride or bust. I also think there are some schools that are truly never worth attending, even for free.

Perhaps the biggest thing this checklist ignores completely is geography. If you can't get into a top school, you should go to one of the really strong quasi-national or regional schools at a reasonable cost. For example, a kid from Columbus with strong connections is probably making an okay choice going to tOSU and dropping 25k per year. If I'm him, I'd much rather 75k-100k on tOSU than go to some random ass place across the country on a full ride. Keep in mind that a full ride still means 15-20k per year in COL, fees, books, and (sometimes) tuition increases.

[rad lulz]

I see what cooldude is trying to do but I don't really think this checklist is very helpful. There are just too many variables at play to break it down into something so simple, and I really don't think all non-T14s are full ride or bust. I also think there are some schools that are truly never worth attending, even for free.

Perhaps the biggest thing this checklist ignores completely is geography. If you can't get into a top school, you should go to one of the really strong quasi-national or regional schools at a reasonable cost. For example, a kid from Columbus with strong connections is probably making an okay choice going to tOSU and dropping 25k per year. If I'm him, I'd much rather 75k-100k on tOSU than go to some random ass place across the country on a full ride. Keep in mind that a full ride still means 15-20k per year in COL, fees, books, and (sometimes) tuition increases.

You've gone soft bro. I'd never drop $100k on tOSU (68% LST score, 18.3% large firm + fed clerkship).

[sinfiery]

UT in-state is like 140k COA at sticker. Would absolutely take that risk.

[rad lulz]

UT in-state is like 140k COA at sticker. Would absolutely take that risk.

It's more like $170k with tuition increases and interest.

30% large firm + federal clerkship rate.

No way, unless you'd consider dropping out if you miss biglawl.

[sinfiery]

Considering the alternative is probably selling life insurance policies for some shit tier company for 25-40k for the foreseeable future, I would.

Might consider dropping out if near bottom of the class tho

[hephaestus]

UT in-state is like 140k COA at sticker. Would absolutely take that risk.

It's more like $170k with tuition increases and interest.

30% large firm + federal clerkship rate.

No way, unless you'd consider dropping out if you miss biglawl.

I wouldn't do 170 for Texas ever. Not for a worse than coin flip chance of a good outcome.

[romothesavior]

I see what cooldude is trying to do but I don't really think this checklist is very helpful. There are just too many variables at play to break it down into something so simple, and I really don't think all non-T14s are full ride or bust. I also think there are some schools that are truly never worth attending, even for free.

Perhaps the biggest thing this checklist ignores completely is geography. If you can't get into a top school, you should go to one of the really strong quasi-national or regional schools at a reasonable cost. For example, a kid from Columbus with strong connections is probably making an okay choice going to tOSU and dropping 25k per year. If I'm him, I'd much rather 75k-100k on tOSU than go to some random ass place across the country on a full ride. Keep in mind that a full ride still means 15-20k per year in COL, fees, books, and (sometimes) tuition increases.

You've gone soft bro. I'd never drop $100k on tOSU (68% LST score, 18.3% large firm + fed clerkship).

I haven't gone soft, I think you've just gone off the deep end. If anything, I'm even more debt-averse than before. I probably wouldn't pay sticker anywhere anymore.

For someone with strong ties, the local flagship T1 school is usually not a bad bet with a big scholarship. 100k debt is probably on the extreme high end of what I'd find acceptable for a school like tOSU (which was just an example), but 75k-100k debt is really not awful with IBR, and doesn't take biglaw to pay it off in a reasonable amount of time.

[dr123]

Considering the alternative is probably selling life insurance policies for some shit tier company for 25-40k for the foreseeable future, I would.

Might consider dropping out if near bottom of the class tho

That's the only alternative to lawl school? LOL

[rickgrimes69]

UT in-state is like 140k COA at sticker. Would absolutely take that risk.

It's more like $170k with tuition increases and interest.

30% large firm + federal clerkship rate.

No way, unless you'd consider dropping out if you miss biglawl.

This. Texas at sticker, even in-state with ties, is not nearly worth the cost.

[sinfiery]

I did a whole analysis on this but basically, if going to UT will add $8k to my income on average over 40 years, it is a worthwhile investment. If not, it isn't.

These questions are largely reliant upon opportunity cost which is why I find these all encompassing responses silly in many cases

[timbs4339]

I did a whole analysis on this but basically, if going to UT will add $8k to my income on average over 40 years, it is a worthwhile investment. If not, it isn't.

These questions are largely reliant upon opportunity cost which is why I find these all encompassing responses silly in many cases

I mean some people don't want to spend their youth working biglaw and paying down huge chunks of debt so to turn a small profit when they are 50. Numbers don't tell the whole story.

[hephaestus]

I did a whole analysis on this but basically, if going to UT will add $8k to my income on average over 40 years, it is a worthwhile investment. If not, it isn't.

These questions are largely reliant upon opportunity cost which is why I find these all encompassing responses silly in many cases

What is this calculation based on?