Harvard vs NYU RTK Forum

[smallpotato]

That about sums it up, I think. To be a fellow at a prestigious public interest program vs an anonymous striver at HLS. If I get the chance I think I'm leaning RTK. But we'll see what happens, need aid, cost of living estimates, etc. Hope other folks get the call soon.

[tee.ell.ess]

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[02889]

is there any reason to think calls are rolling out and have not all been made?

I think it was the case that this happened last year.

Also, it'd be crazy if only 1 out of the 60 or so invitees is a TLSer.

And also because we just need to believe.

[aredhello]

This is now relevant to my interests. I'm guessing that they're starting to go through their second tier of folks they want to interview, seeing as invitations first started rolling out a couple of weeks ago (I'm assuming enough people in the first batch declined the opportunity). I'm also curious if it has anything to do with the fact that I submitted my NeedAccess earlier this week?

Anyway, my two cents to this conversation: Was pretty much sold on Harvard after attending ASW and speaking to some folks there who shared similar interests (education/policy/government), but this was also after giving up hope of receiving an RTK interview invite.

The biggest factor for me right now is the difference between the LIPP at Harvard and LRAP at NYU. The LIPP is just so much more flexible in the types of employment it covers, and it doesn't require enrollment in PSLFP/IBR. Even with the RTK, you're still looking at around 100K in debt from living expenses in NYC, and I should be eligible for some need-based aid at Harvard.

Of course I know that this conversation is putting the cart before the horse in many ways, but even the person who I spoke to on the phone said that given the nature of the exploding offer, it was important to get your ducks in a row before you interview.

Would love to get this thread going again -- any thoughts?

[sinfiery]

RTK is kind of strange. You're supposed to pay it back if you don't go into public interest. And if you do go into public interest, because of LRAP you probably wouldn't have to pay much, if anything, on your loans even without the RTK scholarship. So the economic benefit to RTK is mainly that you don't have to stay in LRAP-qualifying employment for ten years, don't have to worry about the impact a marriage might have on LRAP payments, and so on.

Not needing to arrange your life around LRAP requirements, or to worry about your loans, is certainly worth something—I'd actually argue it's worth quite a lot—but nonetheless the actual monetary value of the RTK scholarship is really nowhere near that of a no-strings-attached full-ride scholarship.

Bottom line, if you're dedicated to a career in public interest work, the single most likely scenario, whether you're at HLS or NYU, is that you won't have to pay back a lot of money. The only difference is in the details.

IMO the real reason to do RTK is the professional opportunities it presents. The Root folks are NYU's most high-profile scholars and the school has a real interest in making sure you get really good, impressive jobs. Lots of prominent people will go to bat for you. That, to me, probably outweighs whatever benefit HLS might have over NYU in a vacuum in terms of job placement. If I were trying to get a Skadden fellowship or something, I'd rather be a Root at NYU than an anonymous student at HLS.

Great post. Convinced me to tell OP to take HLS tho.

[red8aron]

RTK is kind of strange. You're supposed to pay it back if you don't go into public interest. And if you do go into public interest, because of LRAP you probably wouldn't have to pay much, if anything, on your loans even without the RTK scholarship. So the economic benefit to RTK is mainly that you don't have to stay in LRAP-qualifying employment for ten years, don't have to worry about the impact a marriage might have on LRAP payments, and so on.

Not needing to arrange your life around LRAP requirements, or to worry about your loans, is certainly worth something—I'd actually argue it's worth quite a lot—but nonetheless the actual monetary value of the RTK scholarship is really nowhere near that of a no-strings-attached full-ride scholarship.

Bottom line, if you're dedicated to a career in public interest work, the single most likely scenario, whether you're at HLS or NYU, is that you won't have to pay back a lot of money. The only difference is in the details.

IMO the real reason to do RTK is the professional opportunities it presents. The Root folks are NYU's most high-profile scholars and the school has a real interest in making sure you get really good, impressive jobs. Lots of prominent people will go to bat for you. That, to me, probably outweighs whatever benefit HLS might have over NYU in a vacuum in terms of job placement. If I were trying to get a Skadden fellowship or something, I'd rather be a Root at NYU than an anonymous student at HLS.

Great post. Convinced me to tell OP to take HLS tho.

I agree that it is a great post, but I come out on the opposite side. You have a better chance of making a larger impact from RTK. You said you are going to law school to make more of an impact; thus I would take RTK easily.

[smallpotato]

Can I ask Harvard to give me a final decision before April 6?

[Ti Malice]

Can I ask Harvard to give me a final decision before April 6?

I wouldn't do that. But you don't have to withdraw your HLS app before receiving a decision, regardless of what NYU tells you.

[Emma.]

T6 full-ride beats anything, except maybe Yale. And that is only if you have your mind set on the doors that Yale would open for you.

[02889]

T6 full-ride beats anything, except maybe Yale. And that is only if you have your mind set on the doors that Yale would open for you.

I think the exception might be for PI work, which is relevant here. If you're considering NYU v. Harvard for biglaw, obviously taking a full ride is the right choice. But for PI, with Harvard's incredibly generous LIPP, it's a much harder decision. Leaving with $70,000 in debt from NYU probably requires being in LRAP for a while, which limits the job choices (though how serious this issue is just depends on what jobs you want out of school), while leaving with $250,000 in debt from Harvard is much harder to swallow. However, the post in one of the other Harvard v. RTK threads about how expansive the LIPP is at Harvard make it a hard call.

OP, I think you should consider what job(s) you want in the 5 years after law school. If it's in prosecution, public defense, impact litigation, or direct services, RTK seems like the best way to go. If it's anything more obscure (environmental class action cases at a plaintiffs' firm, policy research, or international rule of law development like in another thread) then Harvard might be much more suitable. The freedom from PSFL eligibility seems to be a huge factor here.

[smallpotato]

Thanks for the replies, guys. If I get, I'm taking the RTK. I just wanna do some good ol' advocating. But it would be nice going knowing my options. But for me, NYU on its own, sans RTK, is a good outcome.